Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Jukebox on August 21, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
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I cant quite believe the decision of the Scottish justice minister Kenny MacAskill to release Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi who was convicted of the Lockerbie disaster! This is of course on compassionate grounds due to the fact he is terminally ill with prostate cancer.
Why should he be shown any compassion and how distressing must it be for survivors and the victims families to witness the heroes welcome he recieved on arrival in Tripoli!
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MacAskill talked about how proud Scots were to be known for their compassion and humanity. I agree 100% with that.
What I cannot understand is why we could not have shown Megrahi that compassion and humanity in the confines of his cell where he most certainly should have remained until his death.
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Obama is not impressed either.
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Watch his progress.
There may be more miracles to come in the middle east.
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The only good thing is look at how much money the Gov has saved letting him go & how much the NHS has saved not treating him.
He should of still been left to rot in jail though.
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oh and think of the lucrative building contacts in libya. I can't understand why young men are dying on a daily basis in afghanistan fighting terrorism yet we are releasing this man. I'm afraid the whole situation is about money and that is the sad truth.
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Libya has vast oil reserves,75% lay untapped.Britain wants that oil to remove our dependency on Russian oil.Big companies want the profits that will follow.Blair,followed by Brown have courted Gaddafi to get that oil.The bomber was never going to die in jail but it came close due to a mix-up between English and Scottish laws.The bomber is a relative of Gaddafi,and was acting on behalf of Gaddafi.The investigation and trial cost you and I many millions of pounds and the truth remains covered up.The victims and their families are a secondary issue.Politics and profit are the main concern and the bombing interrupted trade.
A total discrace,which should be remembered at Election time!!!
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Why was such a big decision made by the Scottish parliament and not London?
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Brown wanted to be able to say "I did'nt let him go".
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That is what I thought. It is odd that there has hardly been anything said about the decision by MPs south of the border.
I also believe that American government have agreed to this, despite the protests, or it would have been stopped.
He had to agree to drop the appeal or he would never have left this country.
The sad thing is we will never know if he was a scapegoat or not.
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England,Scotland,USA and others are pleased to see a "closure" to this matter for a lot of reasons.The politicians are just paying lip service at the moment because of the publics outrage.Then,----back to business!!
:-\:-\
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why should he be released on compassionate grounds when he didn't show any compassion when he blew that plane up, don't agree with it
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BREAKING NEWS.11-40 pm gmt.
Gaddafi's son has just announced that the bombers release WAS linked to a Libya-United Kingdom Trade Deal! (he was on holiday with Mandleson last week).No 10 are denying a deal was done.So much for the victims.
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Check this out.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/lockerbie-now-its-payback-time-1775805.html
[:(!][:(!][:(!]
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So we are in bed with the devil now thanks to that great chap Brown.
Nice.
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I am very pleased that the Scottish Justice Secretary has properly applied Scottish law in releasing the prisoner on compassionate grounds. He could have courted short-term popularity with voters or kowtowed to the huge threatening power of the US Presidencial apparatus. But he didn't. What Libya makes of it is irrelevent as far as I am concerned; Scottish justice is not responsible for the behaviour of foreign governments and citizens. Nor do I take seriously remarks about mass murderers not showing compassion. Of course they dont; that's what makes them mass murderers. I have no intention of ever basing my own moral judgments and actions upon their example. If a coutry's legal system specifies conditions and criteria for release of prisoners on compassionate grounds then it is these that should determine the decision, not other issues. I heard an American lawyer on the radio saying that people in the US wouldn't understand this as the US legal system has no concept of compassion. Quite, and they can keep it.
For the first time in my life I rather wish I was Scottish - so I could swell with pride that my little country has a legal system robust enough to see the right thing done, according to Scottish law, despite the bullying attempts of a world superpower and crass press barons.
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Colwyn
I assume from your post that had Ian Brady had been convicted under Scots Law and was believed to have only 3 months to live, you would have no difficulty in releasing him on compassionate grounds.
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At last, a balanced post on the subject. Thank you Colwyn.
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
I am very pleased that the Scottish Justice Secretary has properly applied Scottish law in releasing the prisoner on compassionate grounds.
The fact that the law allows for release on compassionate grounds surely does not mean that MacAskills decision was correct in this case.
If a coutry's legal system specifies conditions and criteria for release of prisoners on compassionate grounds then it is these that should determine the decision, not other issues.
Does "not other issues", include the degree or severity of the crime
For the first time in my life I rather wish I was Scottish - so I could swell with pride that my little country has a legal system robust enough to see the right thing done, according to Scottish law, despite the bullying attempts of a world superpower and crass press barons.
I'm afraid that presupposes that the decision was taken on compassionate grounds and compassionate grounds alone
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Ali Al-Magri was found guilty of blowing 270 human beings out of the sky.He deserves no more compassion than he showed his victims.How much compassion has the Scottish Courts shown to the feelings of the relatives of those victims?Or does it only study the wellbeing of the guilty?
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
At last, a balanced post on the subject. Thank you Colwyn.
I wouldn't say my post was balanced, Mike. I come down very clearly on one side. However, since this side hadn't so far been voiced I thought it might give some balance to the thresd. I am sure my view will be a minority one on this forum but that is not a reason not to give it.
As to H's question whether I think similar cases should be treated similarly the answer is obviously "Yes". Kevin suggests we should treat compassionless bombers in a similarly uncompassionate way. I have already said that I am not letting bombers lead me in my thoughts and actions. His second point, about compassion for victims' families, is a more difficult one. I take the view that the criminal law is not there for the comfort of victims (nor their families) hard though that may sound. The criminal law is about the maintenance of society collectively, and the mark of a civilized society is the manner in which it treats its worst, least deserving and most uncompassionate members. If we forget that and decide to adopt the same tactics as the terrorists and treat them like-for-like then we descend into "The Horror" envisioned in Konrad's "Heart of Darkness" (and in the film "Apocalypse Now" that stole Konrad's plot).
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Colwyn - sorry to say this but this was nothing to do with Scottish justice - more the fact that the UK has some serious business lined up with Libya.
I must say though that if it was one of my famimly or friends who had died in that plane then I am not sure I could agree with his release.
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quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Colwyn - sorry to say this but this was nothing to do with Scottish justice - more the fact that the UK has some serious business lined up with Libya.
Do you think that spending more time in Turkey is leading you into the Turkish national pastime of building, selling and buying conspiracy theories?
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"I am sure my view will be a minority one on this forum but that is not a reason not to give it".
Of course.
"As to H's question whether I think similar cases should be treated similarly the answer is obviously "Yes"".
The logical progression of that is that release is automatic in cases of terminal illness with a prognisis of 3 months or less. As I understand it, that is not the law as it stands today nor would I personally want it to be in the future.
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H, I phrased this badly. I was not suggesting automatic release.vI was saying that I think all cases should be judged impassionately against the conditions and criteria of the law and not upon feelings about the character of the convict (obviously vile), the opinions of politicians in other countries (whether Obama or son of Gaddafi), the dogsbodies of the tabloid newspapers, or others. There are doubtless many factors to consider including assessment the convict's current threat to society (and I can imagine many with only a few months to live who could be an extreme threat) and the impact of release upon others likely to offend (i.e. does it lower the influence of deterrance). Not automatic release, but no-one should be excluded from consideration under circumstances of near-death because they deemed less human than others.
H, I imagine that you are of an age to rememebr the imprisonment of the Nazi politician, Rudolf Hess, who had a whole prison to himself until the day he died. At the end even the US Government, in agreement with those of the UK and France, thought he should be released. But inside he stayed because the USSR, as the fourth occupying power, would not co-sign the release. Compassion is thinkable even for those involved in the extermination of over 6 million people.
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A minority of two Colwyn, it struck me that your post was based on some semblance of reality, rather than hearsay and propaganda.
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Colwyn.Your views are as relevent as anyone elses,and I admire your humanity.I just disagree with your thinking.For civilised society to succeed the laws have to be acceptable to the law abiding majority.To do this it must consider their views,their fears,and yes,their comfort.In recent years the law has placed itself above the masses and started to dictate to them,to tell them what is,or is not good for them.They are not listening to public opinion,and that is dangerous for a civilised society.Laws will only work if people are prepared to abide by them.The laws of our country are very far from perfect,and if you have enough money,knowledge and influence you can live outside of them.Your posts on this are saying apply the laws to the letter.Public opinion is saying this decision to release the bomber is outrageous.I favour public opinion!! MPs put themselves above public opinion,to their cost.!I believe the legal profession will suffer the same fate. :)
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Kevin
You suggest that Colwyn's posts on this are saying apply the laws to the letter.
That surely has to be the case. Scots Law allowed for the release of Megrahi and therefore the Scottish Giovernment was bound to consider his application. I disagree with his decision, but Macaskill discharged his duty in accordance with the law prevailing at the time. The question of whether or not that particular law should be changed is another matter entirely.
I'm not sure that I can agree that Colwyn's assertion that compassion should be thinkable in all cases. Perhaps that would be the mark of a civilised society. I certainly would not have released either Megrahi or Hess.
Colwyn:
Can you clarify one thing for me, which I may have missed. Do you believe that MacAskill's decision was taken on compassionate grounds and compassionate grounds alone.
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H.Colwyn is saying laws and judgements should be impassionate.I am saying they should'nt be.The legal system,(and some very large salaries)are funded by the law abiding masses.Their views HAVE to be listened to.If Ali al Megrahi has been treated impassionately,Why did the Scottish Justice Minister visit him in his cell??This is the first time in history this has happened.Jack Straw sent a doctor to see Ronnie Biggs.Downing Street admits it has been in "discussions"with the Scottish Minister about this case.WHY,if it is a matter for Scottish law.??If anyone believes Macaskill made this descision on his own they still believe in the tooth fairy.The truth will out in the next few months.Our government has walked over too many people.Someone will spill the beans,and I think it will come from "within"
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Colwyn:
Can you clarify one thing for me, which I may have missed. Do you believe that MacAskill's decision was taken on compassionate grounds and compassionate grounds alone.
This is impossible for me to tell; I cannot delve into his interior motivations. If you re-read my first post I applauded the rigour of the Scottish legal system not the actions of any one man. He, it seemed to me, was enacting its tenets because that was what his position required him to do. Perhaps he did it for other reasons. But then he himself might be held to account for this by some other lawyer. It seems to me that the system has worked so that is what I have said. In the same way, I would support the jury system even if I thought a couple of jurors might be a bit dodgy.
But don't you think this is irrelevent to our discussion, H? I haven't introduced any aside as to whether or not al-Megrahi was actually the bomber (although I note that many of those speaking for the families of Scottish victims are fare far from convinced). And, on your side, you have not suggested any conspiracy by Gordon Brown or the SNP or anyone else to deliver a "political" result. We have argued instead over the principle of whether it is right to grant compassion even to the most evil of people. We disagree; but I have been interested by the discussion and am willing to leave it in a state of respected difference.
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
quote:
Originally posted by stoop
Colwyn - sorry to say this but this was nothing to do with Scottish justice - more the fact that the UK has some serious business lined up with Libya.
Do you think that spending more time in Turkey is leading you into the Turkish national pastime of building, selling and buying conspiracy theories?
Conspiracy theories? Not sure this is one of them Colwyn. The truth will come out sooner rather than later and you will see what the UK has to gain from this release.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/gaddafi-junior-comes-out-of-the-shadows-to-take-the-credit-1775812.html
Quote from above:
"The compulsion to secure privileged access to Libya's enormous energy reserves has seen political leaders from Tony Blair to Nicolas Sarkozy get to grips with Gaddafi's bedouin roadshow. More recently Mr Brown and Mr Obama met the unpredictable autocrat on the fringes of the G8 this month. But there is little doubt that the West favours the more urbane son as its go-between with Tripoli.
In each of the major diplomatic breakthroughs that have brought Libya in from the cold and advanced it to the status of "strategic partner" to the UK, Saif al-Islam has had a decisive role. He has been at the centre of the secret accords, trade deals, compensation packages and prisoner exchanges that have marked the country's return to respectability."
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
Originally posted by Highlander
Colwyn:
....but I have been interested by the discussion and am willing to leave it in a state of respected difference.
Me too and I am perfectly willing to shake your hand on that Colwyn.
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Kelvin
Just one more point if I may. You have used the term "law abidding" a couple of times. To me that includes abidding with a decision that is fully in accordance with the law of the land at the time, no matter how distateful it may be to either you or me.
I fully understand and respect your point of view, but as with Colwyn and I, we obviously have different opinions which we cannot resolve.
Shall we too shake on that.
PS I think you may be totally correct that the truth will out in the coming months.
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H.I will shake any part of you.:D
We have had a discussion,not an argument and I respect yours and Colwyns views.
Just found this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6073466/The-full-letter-from-the-FBI-Director-on-the-Lockerbie-bomber-release.html
Kev. :)
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It might not take months!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/22/gordon-brown-letter-gaddafi-lockerbie
Pass the buck time!
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Sorry Colwyn, I have to disagree with you (that`s a one off) on this occasion.
As for the "I want to be like Colwyn", he wouldn`t have said a word if you hadn`t posted first, so his post isn`t worth commenting on ;)
(http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp173/crabbit49/crab.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin3
It might not take months!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/22/gordon-brown-letter-gaddafi-lockerbie
Pass the buck time!
This will rumble and rumble on and Brown has played his hand well and made it look like the Scotts are to blame. It could cost them dear now that there is a possibility that the US will boycott Scotland and their goods. How much is the Whisky trade with the USA worth I wonder? And don't forget the tourist trade.
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And don't believe for one second that USA have no vested (and ongoing) interest in Libya's oil - they do
Politicians stink !!! (both sides of the border) quote:
Originally posted by tony
oh and think of the lucrative building contacts in libya. I can't understand why young men are dying on a daily basis in afghanistan fighting terrorism yet we are releasing this man. I'm afraid the whole situation is about money and that is the sad truth.
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The boycott of whisky and the effect on the tourist trade may or may not happen Stoop.
But would you stop going to Turkey had the Turkish Government taken the decision that Macaskill did.[?]
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Originally posted by Crabbit
Sorry Colwyn, I have to disagree with you (that`s a one off) on this occasion.
As for the "I want to be like Colwyn", he wouldn`t have said a word if you hadn`t posted first, so his post isn`t worth commenting on ;)
Very true Crabbit. I have posted similar views in the past, on the various hanging debates and others and know full well the futility of debating the subject with people such as your self.
8)
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
Very true Crabbit. I have posted similar views in the past, on the various hanging debates and others and know full well the futility of debating the subject with people such as your self.
8)
Pardon !!!
Oh, you have come to the conclusion that I was referring to you, oh well if the cap fits, wear it. : :)
(http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp173/crabbit49/crab.gif)
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Ha ha, If it wasn't, it could have been, hence the reply. ;)
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quote:
if the cap fits, wear it. : :)
(http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp173/crabbit49/crab.gif)
Mike doesn't wear a cap. He weaps one of those wizard thingies that Uncle Bulgaria used to wear on The Wombles but without the tassle. I don't know what they're called.
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
quote:
if the cap fits, wear it. : :)
(http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp173/crabbit49/crab.gif)
Mike doesn't wear a cap. He weaps one of those wizard thingies that Uncle Bulgaria used to wear on The Wombles but without the tassle. I don't know what they're called.
Iv,e weaped these hats for years but never did know what their called.
I lost the first one to a gust of wind on wimbledon common and always wondered what became of it. ;)
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Since it's gone slight;y off topic, can I just just say that it's an
entertainning post script to a thread which I enjoyed thoroughly.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Since it's gone slight;y off topic, can I just just say that it's an
entertainning post script to a thread which I enjoyed thoroughly.
This is what I love about this forum, a thread can go from a subject about the release of a mass murderer to a discussion about a silly hat! Only on CBF! ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
The boycott of whisky and the effect on the tourist trade may or may not happen Stoop.
But would you stop going to Turkey had the Turkish Government taken the decision that Macaskill did.[?]
Probably not but then I'm not American.
Seems there are those hell bent on blaming the Scots for this when in fact it looks more and more like that great Scot Gordon Brown who is behind the release (they can still blame the Scots then ;))
There are already petitions to boycott Scotland and the rest of the UK but in reality it will probably only be a few who will take part. However if it does gain momentum then the Scottish tourist trade could be badly damaged by the lack of American tourists. I believe they do spend a lot in bonnie Scotland.
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Heard two interviews with two different American talk radio hosts today, one said that he only had one person wanting to talk about Lockerbie, the other has had none, both agreed that their listeners were not interested in Lockerbie but were still very much concerned about the health debate, both stated that the Lockerbie debate was being used to draw attention away from the health issue but has not succeeded.
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I listened to Mathew Bannister today and it was quite the different to the experience of the previous poster.
I was amazed to hear that there is now a website that is trying to get people to 'boycott' Scotland and the Uk. Have a quick look.
www.boycottscotland.com
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I have just opened one of those letters and got a message that I was infected with some virus worm thingy.
Is this possible?
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Why boycot Scotland,only one man made the decision.The Scotish people were never asked their opinion.
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Scottish people died too. The Americans seem to forget that. I think he should have rotted in jail in Scotland but I too admire the nation for following the rule of law. I wonder if Americans will also boycott the American companies profiting from the construction and oil industries of Libya. I used to work for one of them.
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The Scottish Minister had several options available to him.He could have kept the bomber in his cell,but allowed visitation rights to all of his family.That would have shown compassion.He could have ordered his transfer to a Libyan jail to serve out his sentence.But to release The convicted killer of 270 innocent people to freedom,and given the million of pounds spent persuing and prosecuting him STINKS.
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I said early on in this discussion that I thought we could have shown Megrahi compassion and humanity until his death within the confines of his cell.
But here's a thing. Some people, including Dr Jim Swire who lost his daughter in the atrocity and who has meet Megrahi, believe that there is reasonable doubt concerning the robustness of the conviction.
Even allowing for the fact that Megrahi was convicted in a Court under Scots Law, there seems little doubt that the whole truth is not know at this time.
Although I don't remember MacAskill saying so, do you think that this something he may (or should) have taken into account and, if so, was he correct in doing so in reaching his "compassionate" decision.
If, at some date in the future, it is proved that Megrahi was in fact not responsible for this henous crime, then surely MacAskill's decision will have indeed been a compassionate and humane one.
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Megrahi is now saying he will produce the evidence to clear his name.Why now?Brown is now saying that Gaddafi promised him four weeks before The Scottish Minister made his decision, that Megrahi's homecoming would be done on the quiet.Why were they discussing something that had'nt yet been decided?Why would Brown believe someone who has addmitted his part in the bombing and paid out millions to the victims families,and who armed and financed the IRA to kill UK innocents for years,to keep his word on his promise of a quiet homecoming?Megrahi worked for Libyan intelligence,he was linked to the suitcase that contained the bomb,and shopkeepers identified him as the man who had bought clothes that were in the same suitcase.Of course others were involved but he was the only one trapped by evidence.And Mandelsons denial of a deal speaks volumes for me,coming from a known liar and fraudster (and now a Lord and a Minister)
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Nearly six months on and Mr Megrahi is still with us. Strange really when you consider it was reported that his health had deteriorated markedly in mid September 2009.
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I dare say that people's basic views on this will not have changed over the last year, but are we not now entitled to at least question the medical advice given at the time and on which our Kenny has steadfastly hung his hat ever since.
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If he hadn't been sent back we'd probably be outraged by now at stories of taxpayer's money being spent on injections to ease his pain. The obvious thing to do with him was to stop paying for any care at all and chain him to a metal fence and charge a fiver (to go to the families of his victims) to anyone who wants to punch him in the face. That not being one of the options available at the time, let someone else pay for his morphine. To think of him being still here having his pillows puffed so he can more comfortably watch Cash in the Attic is far more revolting a thought than pondering how he is still alive in Libya.
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...but are we not now entitled to at least question the medical advice given at the time and on which our Kenny has steadfastly hung his hat ever since.
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People outstay their prognosis life expenctancy length every day in the UK. This sort of thing is common - normally it is good news though :-\
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Accepting that to be the case, it surely weakens the argument for release on compassionate grounds.
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It strengthens it if he had croaked after two weeks though. Who knows how long someone will last?
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Terminally ill in a prison cell would have been a depressing thought.
Terminally ill in the bosom of your family with decent food after chemotherapy could put him into remission.
However remission is NOT cured and he still has a sentence hanging over him.
Bit like being taken to a cliff and being told you will be pushed.....just not when it will happen.
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I now hear that al-Megrahi's family are go to sue the Scottish Government for neglecting his health.
UNBELIEVABLE :o:(
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They must have looked after him really well, he should have died ages ago.
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If the man is innocent, which is the view of many of the families of those murdered, his family are bloody right to sue
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This man was handed over by his country - let him sue Gadaffi. Stuff his family.
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IF hes innocent obviously he should sue those who imprisoned him
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If he hadn't been imprisoned in Scotland, it follows that he wouldn't have got cancer doesn't it? Or do they feel he would have beaten terminal cancer in Libya? Who cares if he was innocent, he got treatment which we paid for. We're all sorry he won't live forever.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
If the man is innocent, which is the view of many of the families of those murdered
On what evidence do you base that statement saoirse.
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on whatever evidence has been gathered by both his supporters and indeed by the support group of the victims families. Their spokesperson who lost his daughter in this atrocity is most unsure that this man was guilty. Google it theres loads on this issue
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This was state backed terrorism - if this one didn't do it, the Libyan government will know who did and should hand that person over. If they won't, he should sue Gadaffi and see how far he gets.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
on whatever evidence has been gathered by both his supporters and indeed by the support group of the victims families. Their spokesperson who lost his daughter in this atrocity is most unsure that this man was guilty. Google it theres loads on this issue
Let Abdelbaset al-Megrahi prove it and we'll have a whip round for his compensation. As it stands, he's guilty unless he or his team can come up with sufficient evidence to the contrary and then a retrial could be possible. I think you'll find that until then, he is legally a murdering terrorist.
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http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG75Sy9_hMVMQAP9VLBQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTByZmU2MmgwBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDOARjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=1449t733f/EXP=1291471154/**http%3a//www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23731820-lockerbie-bombers-release-divides-families-of-victims.do
wether it was the Libyan govt or some other govt is open to debate. However if this man didnt do it, which is certainly the view of Dr Jim Squire, chairman of the victims relatives group, the guilty man is still free. As a general rule when bombing atrocities are committed its best to jail those responsible,not innocents for political expediency- something not always followed by the British govt/courts
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Firstly, I understand that the family intend to sue over his health treatment not his innocence.
Dr Swire is of course entitled to his opinion but I'm fairly sure it is not one which is supported by the majority of the victim's families.
It is also an insult to Scotland to suggest that it's Prison System would not provide health treatment to any prisoner.
I don't know but did the family make these claims whilst he was still hear.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
wether it was the Libyan govt or some other govt is open to debate. However if this man didnt do it, which is certainly the view of Dr Jim Squire, chairman of the victims relatives group, the guilty man is still free. As a general rule when bombing atrocities are committed its best to jail those responsible,not innocents for political expediency- something not always followed by the British govt/courts
Well he was found guilty in a damn sight fairer court than a Brit could expect in Libya so for this atrocity the legal process decided it was him. That's how law works.
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yip British courts are always fair
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At the risk of labouring the point saoirse, the link you provided in no way suggests that many of the victim's families consider him to be innocent.
(PS Dr Jim Swire)
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I can only tell you what Jim Swire himself has said
I dont know how many exactly etc
Its clear however that not everyone amongst those most affected accepts the verdict handed down to him
There have also been doubts cast by others and I think panorama (not sure which programme) also was dubious.
You pays your money and takes your pick. All I am saying is if he was the stooge in all this to cover up the real murderers that in itself is an outrage too. Add to that the British system as many of us in this part of the world can attest-has form in miscarriages of justice-and things dont look quite so cut and dried
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If it was a miscarriage of justice then I am sure we're oh sooo sorry. If he was not involved I don't think the Libyan government would have put him up for extradition. If they did that knowing he wasn't involved, his family must take that up with the Libyan government. Maybe they could sue Gadaffi for putting him in the hands of people who "neglected" him.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
You pays your money and takes your pick. All I am saying is if he was the stooge in all this to cover up the real murderers that in itself is an outrage too.
That you do saoirse :).
It's a big "if", but it would be outrageous should it be proved to be so.
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It would be an outrage too if Peter Sutcliffe was a stooge and the real Yorkshire Ripper got away with it all. Lots of things would be an outrage "if...".
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I only raised the possibility because the British judicial system isnt exactly squeakey clean when it comes to politically motivated miscarriages of justice. If you have great faith in them good luck to you-theres those of us that certainly dont.
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Good on Libya though, arranging hero's welcomes for people who have done nothing.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
I only raised the possibility because the British judicial system isnt exactly squeakey clean when it comes to politically motivated miscarriages of justice. If you have great faith in them good luck to you-theres those of us that certainly dont.
They aren't reported to be thinking of suing anyone because of miscarriages of justice. It is about the care he received medically.
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I dont recall posting that they were
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
If the man is innocent, which is the view of many of the families of those murdered, his family are bloody right to sue
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If he is innocent, they are right to sue a hospital that kept him alive longer than all expert opinions could predict? How does the logic work with that one then? Who'd be a doctor eh
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exactly
he wouldnt be getting medically mistreated or whatever it is is alledged if he shouldnt have been in there!
work that out!
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So he could have stayed in Libya and not ever got or died from cancer - what a guy he must be. Sometimes the foreign air can give you a bug, I must admit I have never come across the "caught cancer in Scotland" one though Phil!
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You have lost me Scunner-time to switch forums again!
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Nice of you to pop over to see us
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Scunner, you are welcome
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Ernest Saunders springs to mind, a medical miracle. The only person in the history of medicine to make a full recovery from Early Senile Dementia, the "diagnosis" of which led to him being released after 10 months of a 5 year sentence.
Just shows that Mr Megrahi and his cohorts are not the only bunch of scheming, lying bas&^rds, when it comes to devising ways of avoiding the full weight of justice.
Gordy.
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Well it was left to politicians to make the decision and we all know how honest they are.