Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: Twin Bee on November 10, 2009, 23:10:24 PM
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It is not in my nature to be alarmist but I think it is fair to draw the conclusion that more crime is being committed in Calis now than before i.e there are more reported burgularies and more reported sex crimes.
While it may be true Turkish people are also victims surely it is likely that people are being targetted because of the perception that there are 'easy pickings' to be had in a 'well to do' holiday resort. It follows that victims will decide against coming to Calis again, wjhich is in no ones interest.
What I am not sure about is the extent to which the Turkish press report these matters and the number of convictions and the punishments dealt out to those who are caught. It would be reassuring to know that people are convicrted and punished.
Is there a need for more of an outcry from Turkish people about what is happening. Are local Turkish people being complacent. I wonder?
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
Is there a need for more of an outcry from Turkish people about what is happening. Are local Turkish people being complacent. I wonder?
Can you be more specific Twin Bee. What do you think constitutes complacency and what practical measures do you want the "Turkish people" to take to satisfy the need for more of an outcry,
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Twin Bee, do you mean reported on CBF or reported to the police, the "sex" crimes reported on CBF were never reported to the police.
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When people reported the "crimes" on here, tinkerman offered to collate all the information and go and speak to the police about the said "crimes", not one person came forward with anything. Therefore it can only be classed as hearsay, you can't put a stop to it if there is no real evidence that something has happened.
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Nearly right Baz, info was passed on to me from one of the attacks but none had been reported to the police direct.
Tinx
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I meant being reported on CBF. The fact that some so called 'low level' sex crimes like flashing, pinching bottoms and pinging bikini straps is not reported to the police does not mean these are not happening.
It would appear that many burgualries are now being reported to the police.
I just wonder if anyone gets caught, what punishements they get and more importantly how (or if) these get reported in the Turkish press.
The tide is turning with more and more people saying they are victims of crime in Calis or surrounding areas. Two management companies I know have mentioned to me that this season they have had more customers affected by crime - though they qualify this by saying local crime is less than in the UK. (that comparison might depend on which part of the UK you compare it with!)
Complacency is when no one cares enough to put a stop to it. The example which comes to mind is the number of alledged attacks about a man jumping from behind bushes and being menacing to women in and around the Aqua Park area. I doubt if this person does these things without someone in the comunity knowing that he does these things. Surely if the event is not reported in the local press and condemmed then he might feel he can get away with it.
While indignation and rage by the english victims is understandable more is needed from thel ocal community and I wonder if the community is expressing its abhorence or are they being silent? I just dont know? Do you?
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Posts are starting to go in the wrong order.
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I spoke with a very well known local character in Calis who is a hotelier amongst other things. My point to him was that postings about attempted sexual assaults or abductions was not good for his business or anyone else's - and perhaps something could be done locally to help. He genuinely had heard nothing about any incidents. So the answer to your question is no.
As I've said several times before, the police aren't receiving first hand reports, in fact until CBF folk like Tinx and sunnyD started to help, they weren't getting reports of any kind - and again were shocked to hear that there were such incidents.
The bottom line is that the police believe that the only reason a Brit will spend a few hours in their station is to get a crime report for their "stolen" wallet, camera or ring - when it comes to reporting an 'incident', nobody goes.
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It is not quite a simple as that Keith.
Firstly if you are a victim of lets say; 'unwanted and abusive sexual attention' like I described in my earlier post you will think twice about contacting the police.
Also people who are on holiday will want to keep in a happy frame of mind for the rest of the holiday and any visit to the police in a foriegn country is never done easilly or with out anxiety or even fear. And some victims will be flying home soon after the event where they may feel safer and out of harms way and can put the event to the back of there mind.
I am not so sure you can make the same claim about property crime not being reported. Some of these people say they have involved the police. Many have been reported on CBF and you yourself has said it happens to Turkish people too - so is anyone caught, what sentences are given out and what publicity follows. Surely reporting that someone entered your bedroom in the early hours while you were asleep is not quite in the same league as reporting the theft of a camera. If it is then that might justify saying the police are complacent.
I have no doubt in my mind that people are doing these things and boasting about them - because that is what criminals do.
Is it time for Turkish people to shame these people. If they shaming or disaproving these people then I see, nor hear, no evidence of it happening but in fairness I would not know if are.
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You are steping towards the ridiculous now Stuart. Nobody officially reports anything and the alleged attackers must tell other people about it because that is what they do.
In conclusion, we can assume that the attackers aren't telling enough people, or the right people, about these incidents. It isn't for local people to hope to hear a confession, it's for people who have had such an experience to report it so something can be done. If they won't, then that's all of us waiting for the criminals to boast about it to us, which they do. But so far not to me, or anyone I know.
Nonsense I'm afraid!
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Keith I am saddened by your response to what is a legitmate question - i.e. is criminal activity in the Calis being punished and do the locals care about it.
You exercise a lot if influence on this site and quite rightly so - but don't rubbish a genuine concern.
Are you saying there are no burgularies being reported to the local police. Reports on CBF suggest many such burgularies are being reported. I have explained why certain 'low level' sexual crimes might not get reported but that does not mean they do not happen. Nor does it confirm that the wider community are not aware of the alledged increasing criminal activity.
How do you explain the increasing number of threads about burgulary - currently 3 I think are active. And what about the recent reported muggings at the local ATM's
Nothing happens in isolation and yes I do suspect more (Turkish) people know who might be doing these things and I suspect the local papers do not cover these stories in case people start to stay away. However if the number of peole continue to feel unsafe they will stay away regrdless.
Maybe Hoteliers are not the best people to ask - they are hardly likely to want to tell someone with your influence crime in Calis is bad. Ask apartment owners and a different picture may begin to emerge.
Perhaps you should do a poll asking is Calis less safe than 2008?
As you know I have also urged on CBF that people who are victims of crime report these to the authorities but please be careful not to victimize these people further by giving the impression that there failure to report crime is the reason nothing is done about it and that it is their fault it continues!
Answer this question please "Is there more reports of crime now thanin prevoius years with a yes or a no!
I am still hoping someone will tell me someone has been caught, prosecuted and the punishment they received and that local people want to shame these individauls. Otherwise I (and others) could justifibaly feel that Turkish people do not care very much what is happening or just accept the increase in crime as inevitable.
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Not everyone reports crime on CBF, the police are aware and DO get reports, whether they wish to tell "Joe Public" they have reports is their affair.
I had over 5 emails from friends last week holidaying or living in Calis, they either have been burgled or assaulted, no they did not report to CBF but did report to the police from Fethiye to Ciftlik.
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I'm rubbishing nothing Stuart. My point "in a nutshell" is that it is not the responsibility of hoteliers, locals or businessmen to know, disapprove of or seek to address reports of crime. It is up to the 'victim' to report it to the authorities to help remove any aggressor from the streets. In doing so they help prevent similar incidents happening to others in future too. I don't see that as victimising anyone in any way at all. This is what happens anywhere when a crime has been committed. If they won't report it where do you expect to find the solution? Gangs of disapproving locals who heard something third hand?
Ultimately it is not a major issue as it is not the Bronx as you have painted it - and the few crimes reported on here were not reported officially. Had they all been, the aggressors could have been taken off the streets a long time ago, who knows...
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Was there more reported crime on CBF, probably yes, number of genuine cases, unknown, most only hearsay or insurance claims.
Does that answer your question?
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Baz I feel your comment is incorrect. Crime has without doubt risen in the holiday areas. I now live in Dalyan and there is a major burglary issue here. Similarly Olu Denz was reporting problems earlier in the year. Here in Dalyan the Jandarma are vey well aware of the issue and indeed turned up at every house in my little street to take details and offer advice. I know there have been several attempts to gain entry to my property. Similarly with family and friends in Calis I am constantly hearing of break ins' attempted break ins and residents returning to find an intruder.
The only question really is WHY the sudden increase not that it is actually occuring. Is it softer sentencing/ the economic situation or that outsiders are deliberately targetting holiday towns?
Similarly I know of several women myself and on a seperate occasion my mother included who have been daft enought to accept a lift and then regretted it in Calis and have just counted themselves lucky to get away unharmed.
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May I ask you a few questions TB
Is crime in your area increasing
If so, do you care about that
What, practically, have you done to address the situation.
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Why should Hotel & Bar owners try to find out who the culprits are that is the Police's work.Would you expect your local business or corner shop to find out who burgaled your house in UK.
Yes the crime will maybe effect trade but at the end of the day if crime is not reported to the necessary authorities nothing will get done.
How can the police be expected to take measures to stop some crimes when they have not even been reported.
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I know it is not about Calis yet, but has anybody been reading the stories in Take a Break magazine about The Marmaris Rapist. He has been arrested on numerous occasions for rape for a few years now and is still free. He has been to court on numerous but set free to await trial he used this time to commit further atrocities and seems he has now moved to the lovely place of Ichmeller which is what Calis was 10 years ago. Please do all we can to save Calis from people who commit the crimes including burglary, indecent assault, theft etc. etc etc.
:(:(:(
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If no crimes were reported in the UK, the prisons would be empty and every offender would be free to escalate crime rates. If victims of rape never reported rapists, there would be no rapists in prison and many more people would become victims of rape because of this.
That would be intolerable in the UK, but here I read that to ask someone in Turkey to report criminal activity is "victimising" the victim. Something is wrong.
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From a personal point of view of course I care.
Mum had a rug stolen off her porch that was waiting for the cleaners just the other day in Calis late at night and whilst not life threatening it is upsetting.
As we built from new we considered security in the hope it would make it easier for the rogues to go elsewhere.
We opted for non pvc windows with laminated glass. solar water at ground level rather than roof. alarm systems wired in. outside lighting all on from one switch in the bedroom.
It is something worth considering if you are building from new. No one wants to live in a fortress but a few thoughts at this stage can make a big difference.
if you dont have that luxury..
how about a broom handle wedging those pvc sliding patio doors.
Something noisy propped against the door before you go to bed so that if it is moved you will wake
Consider alarms and properly fitted bars.
secure your roof hatch if you have one
Change the locks on a new house = all and sundry have had those keys.
If you live alone get a personal alarm
Remember Nothing will stop a truly determined burglary but you can make it too much hassle for the chancer.
Nights double check everything is locked properly.
I let workmen know about my killer cockatoo lol make a fuss of putting her back in cage for their safety but DOGS the turks say are a great deterent.
Try to avoid saying where you live, giving just a general wave of "oh in that direction".
Yes crime has increased just a few years ago you could leave your purse in town and get it back intact.
The Police NEED to have those reports then eventually the weight of pressure will force results. Perhaps each area should have a coordinator that will help file reports with the police for a nominal fee or a small group of people who are on call on a rota basis to assist. Tinkermans idea of coordinating data was a good one and this is being done via a questionnaire in Dalyan
I would like to see a special force targeting each of the affected holiday areas and catching the culprits to make an example of before tourism is irreversibly damaged.
Living next door to a holiday villa that was burgled this season I saw how it affected the family and no they will not be back.
Nowhere is Paradise but it is a shame that this particular snake seems to have entered our little facsimile thereof.
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Crimes ARE being reported and the police Do know, just because the CBF police have not been informed does not mean that the "real authorities" have not, business owners do know what is happening also, yet many like to say they have not heard anything to play the matters down.
Last year Gordon and pals were stopped by the police and Jandarma from leaving a bar to go home (yes I know what a great excuse..lol) because there was an almighty street fight where over 100 locals turned to sort out a "problem" yes it was very very violent, but ask a bar owner from the "wooden" bridge to the roundabout what happened and they all suffer from amnesia, no this was not a one off.
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I can't believe some of the responses to my question!!
Keith it is unfair for you to suggest I have even considered that crime in Calis is like the Bronx - where do you get that from?
All I have asked is that, and with out trying to be alarmist, is crime in Calis increasing and to ask if anyone has been prosecuted and what punishments did they get.
Also you know I have very strongly argued that people should report crimes to the police. My impression based on the threads I have read here on CBF is that more people are reporting burgalaries to the police but I would like to know if people are caught and are they prosecuted and punished. Also are these people 'named and shamed in the local press so others can know who they are.
I have also suggested that Turkish people in Calis must know who some of the local 'riff-raff' are and I queried whether they inform the authorities of suspicious activity or give them information about peolple aquiring 'goods' without working for them.
Actually in the UK a lot of crime reduction is done by non-police and this reflects the local communities concerns.
I wonder if this is something Turkey could learn from. Maybe more 'security' type staff in and around the bars might help.
And Highlander what relevance is it whether crime in my area is increasing and why ask if I have done anything about it. To answer the first question some crime where I live is increasing and some is decreasing. I think your question about what I do about it is designed to trip me up. Is it?
If you are hoping for me to say I don't do anything then you are wrong. But the key question you should have asked is do I do anything about crime in home town against other nationals and do I help other nationals living in my community feel safer and secure. Put it this way I don't ignore it.
The other issue is my local newspaper and our local TV do report crimes against foreign nationals and there are people in the wider community activley seeking solutions to the problem. Does the local Turkish paper in Calis report these problems.
As I said I don't know what happens in Calis. I do know some CBF members have tried to get the authorities to be more aware of
that allegedly more crime is happening in Calis more frequently. But can I feel confident the ordinary citizen in Calis cares if apartments are burguled and that mostly (young) women are sexaully assaulted when walking out and about and people are mugged at cash points - well no not yet but can someone convince me they do.
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Why don't you put all your questions to the Police?
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
And Highlander what relevance is it whether crime in my area is increasing and why ask if I have done anything about it. To answer the first question some crime where I live is increasing and some is decreasing. I think your question about what I do about it is designed to trip me up. Is it.
But can I feel confident the ordinary citizen in Calis cares if apartments are burguled and that mostly (young) women are sexaully assaulted when walking out and about and people are mugged at cash points - well know not yet but can someone convince me they do.
No it wasn't TB - the reason I asked was because I am puzzled at what you want "the Turkish people" to do.
I have to say that I consider it totally disingenious of you to question if the ordinary citizen of Calis cares about crime in the area. OF COURSE THEY DO ! in just the same way as the vast majority of the ordinary citizens of your and my area do.
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TB, I live here, it is nothing like YOU are trying to portray.
It may be like where you live but not here.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
....but here I read that to ask someone in Turkey to report criminal activity is "victimising" the victim. Something is wrong.
No Keith don't try and discredit me please. You know that I have urged people on CBF to report crime. But it takes courage and not everyone has the courage needed. It is just that sometimes you and others, intentionally or otherwise, give the impression that by not reporting crime these victims are responsible for similar crime continuing. THEY ARE NOT.
In my view the local community in Calis has a duty and a responsibility to reduce crime, catch criminals, prosecute them and punish them. I just wonder if this is happening. It would be good if someone could confirm this was the case.
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(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/tinkerman1/Record_spins.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
Originally posted by Scunner
In my view the local community in Calis has a duty and a responsibility to reduce crime, catch criminals, prosecute them and punish them. I just wonder if this is happening. It would be good if someone could confirm this was the case.
TB. You keep hammering on about "the local community" as in the quote above.
Please explain to me what you want a law abiding local citizen, who hasn't witnessed a crime, to do. How, in exact and precise terms, do you expect that person to discharge "his duty" and fulfil his/her responsibility to reduce crime etc etc.
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The local community consists of citizens, businesses, organizations, public authorities and local media. I thought you knew that H.
I am only suggesting crime has increased in Calis based on CBF reports during the past season - you are in denial Diverbaz if you come to a different conclusion!
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
The local community consists of citizens, businesses, organizations, public authorities and local media. I thought you knew that H.
Indignant retort about knowing what "local community" meant deleted
TB You complain about people not answering your questions. Would you mind answering mine.....
Please explain to me what you want a law abiding local citizen, who hasn't witnessed a crime, to do. How, in exact and precise terms, do you expect that person to discharge "his duty" and fulfil his/her responsibility to reduce crime etc etc.
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
I am only suggesting crime has increased in Calis based on CBF reports during the past season - you are in denial Diverbaz if you come to a different conclusion!
It is also important to note the increase in numbers of CBF members and general use of the forum. The highest read counts in the Calis forum are topics that were still current in 2008/2009 (i.e. still active in terms of replying and continuation). In fact, you need to look down the list of most read topics to number 42 to find one that hasn't been added to since 2007 or earlier. In other words, the most read topics in CBF history were all still live in recent past.
This helps to show that 2008/2009 saw a substantial increase in CBF membership, including posting members and reading of topics - so for there to be an increase in reports of crime is naturally likely to come as a reflection of that.
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I don't see were I am in denial, I know crime happens everywhere, even in Calis. I personally have never witnessed any, doesn't mean to say it doesn't happen. I to have read the reports on CBF and a lot of it was a load of tosh when you start looking into it. The only crimes I have been told about are normally 2nd or 3rd hand so a pinch of salt is required. People like to gain attention through reporting and blowing things out of propotion (you come to mind).
There is a recession in the world, when that happens crime figures in all countries go up, yes even where you are in your eutopia in the UK.
When Highlander asked you for something constructive, like what YOU do in your area , you side step it, saying he is trying to catch you out. Anybody can critisize.
I will ask you a question, what do YOU expect ME to do about it?
As you said in your first post, if people don't feel safe visiting, don't come, I live here and I feel safer than I did in the UK.
How many people read the posts on CBF and worried about coming to Turkey for their holiday, then went home wondering what all the fuss was about?
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I'm going to ask that very question Baz :)
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Twin Bee.Do you participate in a Forum in your local area in the UK?Do you read via such a Forum the reports,alleged reports,and overheard reports of crimes in your local area?Do you scan such a Forum for police detection rates,police conviction rates,Neighbourhood Watch effectiveness?If not,perhaps you should set one up.Or are you being complacent.I wonder?
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I don't really want to personalise this but apparently if you admit to not knowing but ask if there are reports of people being convicted for burgalry in Calis and what punishments they get: you will not get an answer to your question on CBF!
Somehow this question is interpreted as suggesting that Calis is like the Bronx. No one seems to know if criminals are being caught and convicted. Knowing they are actually might reassure people.
As for the mantra that victims of crime must report all incidents to the police, which I agree is wise advice, there is no understanding how difficult this might be for some. For example I wonder did Keith report the incident he has written about on CBF of a Turkish man who he knew who threatened him with a shot gun and did he report to the local police the incident of the women whose identity he said he knew who allegedly threw plant pots at his home and distressed his wife.
As I have said going to the police to report crime is not a simple decision in a foreign country so please respect that. This is especially so if the incident is of a sexual nature. Also I slightly resent the implication that crimes that are reported to the police are merely insurance scams. This wasn't so when a fellow apartment owner had sentimental items taking from his bedroom while he was asleep.
And no I have not said Calis is not safe but I have said that reports on CBF (and also from others living in Calis) say there has been more crime this season. My instincts tell me this is true.
So clearly my legitimate question is uncomfortable for those who want to beleive that Calis is not changing and remains near to utopia. It is a lovely place with lovely people. I don't want anyone to do anything and I have previously thanked those who took time to talk to the police when concerns about the increase in crime were first raised but I would like to know if any criminals are being caught, are they being prosecuted and what punishments do they get.
I also regard it as somewhat of a cheap shot for people to challenge me on what I do in my local community or to sugegst I am being (socially) complacent in the UK. It has never been my style to publisise my own efforts and I will not do so.
Kevin in respect of the point you make at least in the UK crime rates and detection rates are collated and published and people can compare them.
It seems like it is impossible to get even ancedotal evidence of just one successful prosecution of a crime committed in Calis. Doesn't that worry you?
I am also begining to resent that those who post so called negative comments about Calis are sometimes asked to stay away if they don't like the place. What is wrong with wanting a place to be safer. And for the record I like Calis very much and its people - but permit me to have a few concerns as well.
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee I wonder did Keith report the incident he has written about on CBF of a Turkish man who he knew who threatened him with a shot gun NO and did he report to the local police the incident of the women whose identity he said he knew who allegedly threw plant pots at his home and distressed his wife. YES
Wonder no more Stuart
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Oh, and not allegedly, thanks.
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Cheap shot, more like cheap excuse from you yet again. Maybe if you had posted constructive replies we could follow YOUR example and do something, but you want to keep it a secret, go play with the traffic.
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I put 'allegedly' because I thought accused person denied it but I am happy to accept it happened as reported. And presumably we can conclude in respect of the first incident that it did happen even though it was not reported to the police - I think you get my jist!
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No, the accused person walked into Bizim bar waving her official police warning shouting "I got away with it". No allegedly required. Scum do that sort of thing I find.
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quote:
Originally posted by Twin Bee
Also are these people 'named and shamed in the local press so others can know who they are.
I have also suggested that Turkish people in Calis must know who some of the local 'riff-raff' are and I queried whether they inform the authorities of suspicious activity or give them information about peolple aquiring 'goods' without working for them.
Actually in the UK a lot of crime reduction is done by non-police and this reflects the local communities concerns.
I wonder if this is something Turkey could learn from. Maybe more 'security' type staff in and around the bars might help.
The other issue is my local newspaper and our local TV do report crimes against foreign nationals and there are people in the wider community activley seeking solutions to the problem. Does the local Turkish paper in Calis report these problems.
As I said I don't know what happens in Calis. I do know some CBF members have tried to get the authorities to be more aware of
that allegedly more crime is happening in Calis more frequently....
Baz - I think this post is far more polite and constructive than yours.
You may be pleased to know that I will not post on this thread anymore.
Instead I will spend the the next day or so thinking about whether CBF is the right place for me!
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Ok some answers:
1. Are these people 'named and shamed' in the local press so others can know who they are...
Yes the local Turkish press loves a juicy story, and print great detail about guilty folk. English written local press tend to avoid such stories, prefering to concentrate on who owns the big boat that entered the bay. Don't ask me why it is that way, I don't work for either.
2. Has crime increased in the last 12 months?
Who knows for sure when people aren't reporting it, but my honest opinion is pro rata it hasn't. There are more people, there are more overheard conversations and there are more ways to report it (unofficially).
As the number of people and properties increase in Calis, the physical numbers will probably increase. Per head of population I can't see any increase. My thoughts have always been that 95% of the crime probably can be irradicated by dealing with about half a dozen people.
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quote:
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Instead I will spend the the next day or so thinking about whether CBF is the right place for me!
That's a pity TB - I would have like an answer to my legimate and polite question.:(
And for the record the reason I asked what you do in your area was only to see if you thought that's what the locals in Calis should do. You never know, had you given me an answer, I might have agreed with you.
Can I suggest that this thread got "out of hand" for no other reason than sometimes the written word comes across not in the way that the person had intended.
If that is the case then there is no need for you to consider whether CBF is the right place for you. It is.
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quote:
Baz - I think this post is far more polite and constructive than yours.
You may be pleased to know that I will not post on this thread anymore.
Instead I will spend the the next day or so thinking about whether CBF is the right place for me
Ah!!! so its my fault now, pathetic, grow up man, learn to take criticism.
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Moving on..... ?
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I have received an email from Twin Bee, amongst all the other drivel he states "I am leaving CBF on account of your attack on me."
As I stated above apparently I am to blame.
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CyberBullyBaz
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Baz
I too received a long and detailed email from Twin Bee.
This is of course a private matter between us and naturally I will not disclose the contents as indeed you haven't.
I have to say that after reading my email I now firmly believe that he has been misunderstood and that his intentions/motives in posting what he did are totally commendable. As I said previously, I think the problem lay only in the way it came across
I won't say anymore other than I sincerely hope to read more of Twin Bee's posts in the future.
It would be such a pity to lose a contributor who clearly enjoys the Forum and who genuinely feels agrieved by some of the responses he received on a subject he feels passionately about.
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Oh for Gawds sake Twin Bee, this is a fun forum and we take the peas out of everyone from time to time, admit it you were going on a bit about something nobody could really answer.
I promise we wont pick on you again for at least another month, there are loads of members on here at the moment who would love the adulation you have received, enjoy it while you can.
Cause its somebody elses turn now: :)
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It's easier to sit at a desk and have a rant on here than it is to go out of our front doors and get involved in the problems of our local areas,if we were all honest.Innit. :)
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isn't that the second time he has left?
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Leaving personalaities out of this for a moment.....
Indeed it is a fun Forum Tink, but a fair part of my enjoyment of this Forum is that it also has serious debates on a whole range of subjects.
When this is the case, and it should be fairly clear that the thread is on a serious matter, then it is surely unfair for people to "take the pea" out of the author for whatever reason. (And I say that whilst admitting that your post of a spinning disc was very funny at the time - but only in ignorance of the author's sincerity.)
Some people (myself included I fear) are more easily "hurt" than others and struggle to understand why they are being, in their eyes, picked on.
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'Well said Tinx' give a blimin rest Twin Bee.....blimey its one thing putting your views forward...but...talk about OTT......take or leave it Twin Bee its your choice....
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I too have received an email from Twin Bee. I'm regularly disappointed that we can't seem to have a damn good ruck about things on CBF without someone feeling they are being singled out for attack, where the truth actually is that they hold their view alone.
Twin Bee's style is wordy to say the least and on more than one occasion I believe this has caused his actual point or question to be lost amongst lots of other parts of his post. I think it's important when dealing with sensitive issues that your opinion or question is entirely clear and uncluttered. I also believe that when bringing up sensitive issues that you appreciate there will be people who will strongly disagree with you, and you should prepare yourself for that.
Finally I'd like to say that I know Twin Bee (Stuart), and he always has been, in my opinion, a thoroughly decent, compassionate and gentlemanly fellow. In fact, few people can take me aback as much as he has over the years when comparing the person and the post :D
You can freely come and go from CBF as you please, but I hope you stay Stuart :)
p.s. That's your reply to your email too lol
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I have had yet another unsolicited email from Twin Bee accusing me of making public his OTHER unsolicited email. I have responded saying that it was a debate on an open forum and I have no wish to make it a private debate.
I admit I placed one line of his drivel on the forum to inform members of his alleged departure. If that is against forum rules then ban me.
To all forum members, If I receive an unsolicited email I have the right to publish in part or as a whole as I see fit.
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I have had yet another email from Twin Bee. I have now stopped the ability of people to contact me privately through the forum.
Baz
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Twin Bee's style is wordy to say the least and on more than one occasion I believe this has caused his actual point or question to be lost amongst lots of other parts of his post. I think it's important when dealing with sensitive issues that your opinion or question is entirely clear and uncluttered. In there lies the problem though. Not everyone can achieve that with the written word.
I also believe that when bringing up sensitive issues that you appreciate there will be people who will strongly disagree with you, and you should prepare yourself for that Agreed - but it is the arguement that should be attacked, not the person.
Finally I'd like to say that I know Twin Bee (Stuart), and he always has been, in my opinion, a thoroughly decent, compassionate and gentlemanly fellow. I don't know Twin Bee, but his email to me would suggest that you are totally correct Scunner
You can freely come and go from CBF as you please, but I hope you stay Stuart I'll second that
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Boys Boys - I truly believe this thread has run it's course. We are better than this so please give it a rest !
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Agreed and what a dis course it has been.