Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: captainjon on December 01, 2009, 20:14:50 PM
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Friends and neighbors of ours have just visited the belediye to pay the half year council tax and were presented with a bill for 866.00tl for so called road improvements.The so called improvements would appear to be the tar and gritting carried out earlier earlier in the year.They were told that if they paid by end of the year they would get a 25% discount.As they had the money to hand,thay paid on the spot.They asked if this levy applied to turkish people as well.The answer from the clerk was," they will pay a little" :o! Interpret that as you will.
The people concerned live in a duplex,so the residents below will presumably receive a similar bill.Extending this thought,the people across the road will pay the same,so a piece of road no more than 10 metres will cost 3364.00tl to grit.
The somewhat bigger problem will be,that property owners not in residence will be posted a bill at the end of the year for the full amount.Apologies if this is in the wrong section,but I thought it would attract more attention more quickly.
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It wasn't so long ago that the belediye were the target of expat moaning because of the poor state of the roads. They can't win can they? Maybe your neighbours thought their £90 a year council tax would cover it.
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All of the roads in Calis have improved a lot, either tarred or blockpaved, someones got to pay for it and as in life its the people with money wherever in the world you may be.
Being a car owner John you should be more than happy.
Tinx
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I understand that the roads have to be paid for but if everyone was paying it would bring the price down. Unfortunately we know that everyone will not be paying. A bit of forward warning would have been nice instead of the nasty surprise when we go to pay our taxes. Not everyone reads this forum. These days most of us would like the time to save up. In England everyone gets a bill delivered. I know that we are a long way off that yet but. a bit of fairness would be good for a change and yes I have a car.
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I also would like to say that since the roads by us in Tasyaka were tarred and gritted that half of them have since been dug up, churned up by heavy vehicles on their way to the building sites or were so badly done in the first place that the tar and grit is barely visible.
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quote:
Originally posted by mercury
I also would like to say that since the roads by us in Tasyaka were tarred and gritted that half of them have since been dug up, churned up by heavy vehicles on their way to the building sites or were so badly done in the first place that the tar and grit is barely visible.
Here Here!!
Same as us on Profesor Mustafa Pekin Cadessi. Most of the through traffic is for the Saturday market and for short cuts from Fethiye up to Ovacek!!
When it rains we see half of our road disappear down the drains.
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Why should some pay less than others[?]
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Tinx wants to pay less because captainjon has a car and he doesn't :D
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quote:
Originally posted by kevin b
Why should some pay less than others[?]
Yes that's the bit that bothers me.
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Honestly, one little desk clerk says something and it's gospel on here!
Do you really think people like Cenk or Mete pay a tiny amount and their British neighbour pays the lion's share?
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I posted about this back in October. Keep getting conflicting information. Some say it is complex owners only who have to pay which seems grossly unfair, especially when you see the state of our roads. To my knowledge none of the non-complex owners who live on the same road as me have been asked to pay, although that could be because they're reluctant to go into the council tax office now[?]! I just get sick of the way it's assumed foreigners can pay unexpected, unexplained, large bills at the drop of a hat.[:(!]
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Regarding tax bill i thought that i paid my tax bill yearly i cant understand the bill i have what do i look for to see if it has been paid for a year thanks.[^]
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Does this mean that if your tapu is in two names that each of you will have to pay this amount as it is with the council tax? We always pay ours in March for the year so what will happen to the 25% discount for paying by the end of this year?
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On the subject of road improvements in Calis:
Entrance to my house is by a single gate or double gates. When I viewed the house I came in through the single gate and didn't think to look closely at the double gates. However, after I moved in, I noticed that the double gates opened outwards, or they would have if the level of the resurfaced road had not been too high to allow them to open. Funnily enough I encountered something similar in Swansea. Over the years, the council's resurfacing of my road raised the level of the road until it was only an inch below the pavement; when I put a double drive into my house , the council wanted me to pay for a dropped curb; after discussion , and a site visit, they agreed that their request was absurd.
In Calis I didn't want the hassle of explaining the problem to the council and had my gates rehinged to open inwards.
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I am refering to the local Turkish people around our area who struggle to make ends meet, never mind pay 100's of Lira in extra council taxes.
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A couple of years ago officials from the council came around our site for 250ytl towards the repairs to roads in koca calis,most people were not at home as most homes are holiday homes.How ever,some people paid up.When i came out i went down to pay my property tax etc and was asked to pay this money towards the roads.I asked the guy behind the desk for a copy of the bill and when i have presented it to my solicitor and she is happy i will pay the bill.As soon as i mentioned solicitor the bill was put back under the counter and hey have not heard a thing since.I strongly beleave that its a con and some people are falling for it.
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Has anyone hired an official translator to go to the tax office with them? Or a lawyer?
With such a big bill, the extra cost could be a saving..
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Since the road was made up in front of my house it causes my property to flood. There is no drain and the camber of the road sends all the water into my garden. I think that when I go to pay my tax I will take photos of the problem and a translator. I don't mind paying for a job well done but this has caused me nothing but grief.
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you could take the photos of the problem along to the belidiye office and explain your grief to the english speaking, P.R, young gentleman, normally sitting on the right hand side as you enter the building, you might be surprized and get a result.
they have just block paved most of the roads and pavements in karagozler 1 and 2 ..i along with most others are expecting a largeish bill added to my tax....normal proceedure.
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Thanks Stuart. I take it that this is the same office you go to pay the tax, behind Carrefour.
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Hazel
You can pay your coucil tax in Gunlukbasi if it is any easier
Badger :)
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http://www.fethiyetimes.com/news/44-news/5924-road-tax-in-calis-whats-it-all-about.html
From the Fethiye Times
Mark
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No body has yet explained how this tax is calculated. Take a theoretical case say 100 metres of road with five apartment blocks the cost of the strip of road is split between 30 families. Same stretch of road costs the same to resurface but now has 3 villas so cost is split between 3 families[?][?]
Does anyone actually have any figures yet for their situation:([?]
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It seems from bills received by a number of Calis residents they are excessive when one considers the size of road frontage.Residents in Lissa links I am told have bills of 1000tl.Across the road people in a complex have even larger bills are,this is comparing a villa to an apartment?Fethiye Times have indeed given an explanation provided by the council,but this is not helpful to property owners who are not here right now.As there are a number of contributers to the forum who have turkish partners it may be useful if they could provide first hand information of their experience.There are also contributers to the forum who are in business such as cenk who are directly or indirectly in the loop as it were who might like to provide information as to the formula used for calculation of these bills.I find it difficult to believe that turkish people who may live in a small house but which has a large road frontage will accept bills similar to those being sent out so far.
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My neighbour who has the duplex in our apartment block just paid his (via a friend who lives here).His council tax bill was 595TL.None of the figures seem to make sense.Our road has not been laid with concrete slabs, just tar and pebbles.
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My originating post on this, quoting a figure was also for a duplex apt and was the gross figure,they actualypaid 650 tl.hope this helps.The location was adjacent the 22metre road.
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I don't get it.I pay nearly 800TL for my car road tax...isn't this supposed to be used for road works? or am I being dim? If that's the case why are car owners being charged double- bubble? 8)
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quote:
Originally posted by karaokemark
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/news/44-news/5924-road-tax-in-calis-whats-it-all-about.html
From the Fethiye Times
Mark
The article doesn't actually explain anything, "go to the relevant office & they will tell you how much you owe"?!!. Why can't they issue the full details for everybody to see & understand these unexpected & unexplained extra Taxes :-\.
When & who passed the (I imagine) relevant law/paperwork to apply these charges & why were the details not previously made public?. Is everybody who uses these roads paying towards the cost? Renters & Owners, Turks & Yabanci alike?. Do the businesses that gain the most profit from the extra 'tourist's' & gain a 'revamped' town, pay more for the extra populus wear & tear?.
I can well imagine the uproar that would ensue if everybody in my town received a demand from the local council for extra monies out of the blue! :o. What planet are these guys on?? [xx(]: :).
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I'm surprised that nobody's queried what the 6 monthly vehicle tax pays for !
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quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
I'm surprised that nobody's queried what the 6 monthly vehicle tax pays for !
I just did 2 posts ago KKOB. :-\:D
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With the Belediye ?
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quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
With the Belediye ?
No, on this forum. I'm not going anywhere near there until they sort these ludicrous charges out!: :)
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Phil and our maintenance provider, Fatih Luk, (Park Property Services) went to the office today to ask about road tax.
They were told it is a one off payment all property owners have to pay, not just owners on a complex.
It is based on your property value as stated on your tapu. If there is more than one name on the tapu you each have to pay.
Bills will be sent out to all properties. This could take some time!! (He told Phil they'd reached 8000 and Lissa Park, where we live, is 36000 on the list.)
If you pay the tax within one month you get a 25% discount. You are fined 2% interest for each month of late payment.
Probably the best thing for folk in the UK to do is send a copy of their tapu to a friend out here and ask them to find out how much you have to pay.
This being Turkey, no doubt other people will be told something completely different:(
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by chance we both went to belediye, my wife works in fethiye and i went there without her knowing. (my wife is turk)
we got two figures for our tapu - 172 lira when my wife went and a whopping 944 lira when i enquired.
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That is now getting very worrying!!!
AIso is it right across the town or just Calis?
Ian
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
That is now getting very worrying!!!
AIso is it right across the town or just Calis?
Ian
Rindaloo, our neighbours friend paid his yesterday 595TL. We live near the Saturday market.
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Sorry I meant Ian....Must have had a blonde moment!!
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Well at least its nice to know it coming!!!!
Many thanks
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I think I will not enquire until I get a bill.If I am asked for the money when I go to pay my council tax (in May) I will ask for a written bill and tell them that I will pay if my solicitor says it's ok to do so. (as someone else suggested).There really does appear to be large discrepancies in the amount(s) of money being asked for. It has all the classic signs of 'trying it on to see if we can get away with it'.What is worrying me is the fact that we live in a street that is predominately occupied by Turks.On the whole of our street there are 10 apartments owned by Brits, the other 32 apartments are owned (or rented)by Turks.Our area is working class, so I really cannot see my Turkish neighbours being asked for 595TL like my British neighbour paid.It also begs the question of if you are renting a property who is responsible for paying this tax?
When is the belyedise going to wake up and realise that not every Brit (or foreigner) are rich, and that they are scaring people off from buying or living here?:([:(!]:-\
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Yes - I totally agree with everything you say.
We live in a Turkish area - and I know my neighbours would really struggle to find 500 YTL so you have to ask yourself - what is really going on???
It is a great pity as I don't have a problem with a fair system that applies to everyone - after all we have had a very easy deal with council tax for 5 years but like others I object to being had!
We will do as you have suggested - I will actually happily pay 300 YTL for a solictor to tell me I have to pay it and confirm that everyone else is paying the same as me on my road!
Ian
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quote:
Originally posted by feznut
by chance we both went to belediye, my wife works in fethiye and i went there without her knowing. (my wife is turk)
we got two figures for our tapu - 172 lira when my wife went and a whopping 944 lira when i enquired.
Did you ask the question why?
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very hard to defend the difference between what people pay the only fair solution would be to the unified tax on all or just the user's who already pay high road tax and high fuel duty already, but as most brits don't get a vote in any election in Turkey, only the bill. me thinks another Turkish rip off as they aren't making the cash from property developement/ tourist they will hit property owners for road that we seldom use.
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I, too, agree that this smacks of "lets see what we can get from the yabanci". I for one will do the same and consult a solicitor and have it proved that all th owners in my road are paying the same. I live in the road opposite the new VW garage with the builders merchant right in front of me. Since the roads were tarred and pebbled, the owner of the merchants has broken down the fences and now piles his sand and other materials in to the road. Just to rub salt in he uses his JCB to load lorries in the road sometimes blocking the road for hours. I have the photographs of the now mud riddled road again and agree all my Turkish neighbours will not pay for this rubbish. And just to make it all worse, yes now my property floods. The recent rain resulted in my swimming pool filling to the top and me urgently buying a water pump from Fatih (Park do-it-all)to pump out my grounds. Will I pay, No I won't. Not without a fight anyway.
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quote:
Originally posted by feznut
by chance we both went to belediye, my wife works in fethiye and i went there without her knowing. (my wife is turk)
we got two figures for our tapu - 172 lira when my wife went and a whopping 944 lira when i enquired.
That sounds like a rip off and maybe someone filling their back pocket. Maybe they are on some sort of commission or just like to take foreigners for a ride? We paid a couple of years ago for some road being block paved in Koca Calis. If it happens again I will be consulting a solicitor I think.
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If I knew for certain that my Turkish neighbours were paying the same I would pay it as it's still less than the council tax that I was paying in the U.K, but I really cannot see my working class neighbours paying!! Our road has yet again mostly washed away with all the rain we have had.The road has never been paved, just tarred and stoned. There is a huge crater all down the middle of the road where the sewer pipes were laid last October. I won't pay this bill without a fight, as I pay nearly 800TL per year for car road tax.Anyone know where this is going? This is really unfair on the Brits as we pay more for residency than some other nationalities as well.When will the government and the belydesi wake up and smell the coffee that due to falling interest rates at the banks most of us are cutting back on things, and if they carry on in this way many people will get fed up and return to the U.K.You can only milk a money cow so many times before it kicks back.
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I totally agree with you scouser2swife. I forgot to mention that we too have had the road further devastated by the laying of the new sewer pipes, not to mention the damage to my front walls with the digger that the supervisor when questioned just shrugged his shoulders and muttered something in Turkish.
I am begginning to think the British yabanci is not wanted anymore in Turkey. I would like to see how they would get on without our money. Typical Turkish acumen wanting £1000 now instead of a £5 every year.
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I'd rather have £1,000 now too. It would take 200 years to get it at a fiver a year and I doubt I'd see it all.
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quote:
Originally posted by my way
I totally agree with you scouser2swife. I forgot to mention that we too have had the road further devastated by the laying of the new sewer pipes, not to mention the damage to my front walls with the digger that the supervisor when questioned just shrugged his shoulders and muttered something in Turkish.
I am begginning to think the British yabanci is not wanted anymore in Turkey. I would like to see how they would get on without our money. Typical Turkish acumen wanting £1000 now instead of a £5 every year.
Unfortunately this is the Turkish mentality. You see this everyday living here. If you go into any of the small shops you can be charged double or treble what a Turk pays.When I first moved here for 2 weeks our local baker was charging me 1TL for a normal loaf, I only found out it was 35kr when my mate bought some...I have never been back there since. But this mentality is screwing the Turks up because in them trying to make a quick buck, they are doing themselves out of a slow,small profit because many people do not go back to a shop/service that have robbed them!! And they don't realise that Brits do talk to each other and let other people know what's going on.
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Scouser2swife,
It is so nice to talk with someone on the same wavelength who actually lives here and understands the Turkish mentality. Someone who feels, as I, that every where I go, I feel as though I am being lined up for a scam. There will be those who will say why do you stay. Thankfully, most of the closest Turkish people to me agree with me make it a pleasure being here and of course advise me.
Does Mr Scunner still live here?
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No Mr Bill I ran away :)
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Never mind Mr Scunner. Harsh realities I suppose!
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I'm not entirely sure there's much reality over there
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Do you not mean REALTY!
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quote:
Originally posted by my way
Scouser2swife,
It is so nice to talk with someone on the same wavelength who actually lives here and understands the Turkish mentality. Someone who feels, as I, that every where I go, I feel as though I am being lined up for a scam. There will be those who will say why do you stay. Thankfully, most of the closest Turkish people to me agree with me make it a pleasure being here and of course advise me.
Does Mr Scunner still live here?
I live here for the simple reason that my hubby and I could not afford to live comfortably in the U.K.In England our council tax was £100 per month, our Water rates were £40, gas & electric and coal was £220, add on the mortgage, car tax, petrol,Tv licence, telephone and food and we were using savings just to survive. Our pensions stretch further here and give us some lifestyle that we deserve after working hard most of our lives, not that we live the high life of course :o
The other plus side is that the majority of Turks are good people.There are some just out to make money from you, but I have learned (by experience) who to trust.
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quote:
Originally posted by my way
Do you not mean REALTY!
There's plenty of that [:o]
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badger, where exactly in Gunlukbasi ??
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Dycedon
The tax office is next to a bakers a few yards to the left of the police station in Gunlukbasi high street.We paid there in June so I hope this is the correct location :)
Badger
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Regarding this one off road tax! I have an apartment in hisaronu, so will I be liable. Any information would be helpful.
Peter
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Still seems like good value to me, a couple of hundred quid to get a better road. I've probably saved that in pool chemicals and shoes, the dust from the dirt road always blew into my pool and my shoes were knackered all of the time. If this is a one off payment then it is very good value and I love having my new road.
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I think that what everyone is saying is that if everyone is paying then we are happy to do that. It is the differing amounts being asked. The fact that we do not know who is paying and who isn't and the state of the roads now in some cases are worse than when they were first done. Why is the price different for block paving and tarmac? Has no one got the opinion of some of their Turkish neighbours on this issue?. Maybe someone in charge at the Beledye could issue an official statement until the bills are sent out.
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Anne - I agree totally with your post.
We all want our neighbourhods to be improved and understand that there is a cost to those improvements but a "shared" cost worked out on a "fair and equitable" basis.
Ian
Ps Fancy me agreeing with you ;)
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Strange this topic, everyone wanting change and progress.
When we first went to Turkey we loved the ruggedness, the lack of change and progress compared to that of the UK, the lazy and quiet way of life gave me a serene calm feeling.
We purchased our house, the appeal of the lane not made up, the reeds were high over 7ft, the single track dirt lane not far to the rear of our house is now a wide almost dual carriageway made up road, the shepherd could often be seen passing by, or the lady walking her Cow, chickens walked freely along the lane, to name but a few.
luckily the council only sprinkled the lane infront of our drive with chiippings.
Progress, what a shame.
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Agreed Loz. Tyhe quaintness was a factor but it is alos not bad having the odd road in Koca Calis now - just don't want too much.
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There's a first time for everything Ian!! At last you recognise common sense. xx
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It's not really the foreigners who are to blame for "change and progress". The locals where we live were desperate for new roads ever since we moved here nearly 6 years ago and were hugely disappointed when they didn't get the block paved upgrade. Maybe we should form some kind of residents association (yabanci and local) and work together to find out about taxes etc. instead of loads of individuals paying solicitors/advisors to get the info. I can dream!! ;)
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I am in agreement that we need to get together with some Turkish friends and neighbours to see what their opinions are. The language barrier is a big problem for most English people here. (Some of us do try to learn).
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quote:
Originally posted by mercury
I am in agreement that we need to get together with some Turkish friends and neighbours to see what their opinions are. The language barrier is a big problem for most English people here. (Some of us do try to learn).
I partly agree with you Mercury about getting together with some Turks to try and find out about the cost but, I think that if the Turks think that they will be paying less money out they are unlikely to try and help us Brits.I know this may sound Cynical but that is my opinion. Also I was talking to a person who rents their apartment and they told me that as they don't own their property they don't have to pay it and their landlord hasn't mentioned a bill to them.I honestly think that this is a tax centred at people who have bought their properties and therefore mostly the people the Turks think of as wealthy.
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Anybody thought about NOT paying this additional tax and see what happens? My personal thoughts are that the local beledye is trying it on and seeing if they can raise additional funds from the 'rich' yabanci's.
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric
Anybody thought about NOT paying this additional tax and see what happens? My personal thoughts are that the local beledye is trying it on and seeing if they can raise additional funds from the 'rich' yabanci's.
Great minds think alike Eric.I think they could be testing the water and seeing how many people pay up.Even if 20% pay they are quids in.
I think that if they get away with this one they will start thinking of other 'taxes' for us 'rich' (I wish) Brits.
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I think that is entirely the way to proceed and wait now until they ask or send a bill.
Is it just me, since I started coming here in 2000 and then living here, I have detected a strong sea change towards us. In some respects getting in to Europe would seemingly sort that out. However, it would ruin the place to live here and just spread the cancer that is Europe's bungling greedy bureacrats.
There are some terrificly nice people here but local government appears to be able to do what they want, when they want, how they want with no opposition.
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if you hold out for a bill (as you are not billed for council tax, talking fethiye belideye here)you will loose out on 25% discount on paying early, and if you continue to not pay then fines are added to your council tax.
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I would agree with Eric et al.
I've had a 2 year running battle with the Belediye, or more to the point, the Baskan, to try and get them to do something with my 'road'. Always para yok. Eventually I got my solicitor involved and the Baskan said 'he wasn't going to do the road as there were only a couple of houses there' BUT, he also said 'if I wanted to take the Belediye to Court then he would obviously have to do the road as it was their responsibility'
I do think it's about time we started fighting back and saying enough is enough.
If as many people as possible, both Turk and yabanci, got together and said to the Belediye 'we're not paying, take US to Court' the Belediye just might review their stance. After all, how do we know that we're being told the truth?
As for loosing the 25% discount and getting fines, open a bank account, put everyones' money in and see what happens. If the people lose the money is there to pay and the interest would cover most of any extra costs. If they won they would be quids in and the Belediye would pick up the court costs. Surely it would be worth a shot.
The rate things are going at the moment it will be the yabanci who end up the poor relations
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quote:
Originally posted by peecee
I would agree with Eric et al.
I've had a 2 year running battle with the Belediye, or more to the point, the Baskan, to try and get them to do something with my 'road'. Always para yok. Eventually I got my solicitor involved and the Baskan said 'he wasn't going to do the road as there were only a couple of houses there' BUT, he also said 'if I wanted to take the Belediye to Court then he would obviously have to do the road as it was their responsibility'
I do think it's about time we started fighting back and saying enough is enough.
If as many people as possible, both Turk and yabanci, got together and said to the Belediye 'we're not paying, take US to Court' the Belediye just might review their stance. After all, how do we know that we're being told the truth?
As for loosing the 25% discount and getting fines, open a bank account, put everyones' money in and see what happens. If the people lose the money is there to pay and the interest would cover most of any extra costs. If they won they would be quids in and the Belediye would pick up the court costs. Surely it would be worth a shot.
The rate things are going at the moment it will be the yabanci who end up the poor relations
I'm with you on that one. How do we go about it?
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Me too !!!!!!!
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I would have thought asking Scunner if a new topic could be started asking all who are interested in fighting it and then emailing each other to arrange meetings, details etc. If the money is safely tucked away in a notarised bank account what have you got to lose?[?]
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It's not quite that easy unfortunately. Even setting up a complex committee was a bit of a nightmare and sometimes continues to be! ;)
3 people have said (in theory) let's get together and form a group/committee. Think we need a lot more support than that to get things going.
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i seem to remember in the uk when people were put in jaol for not paying their poll tax.
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Yes and the poll tax they didn't pay was a figure that was sent to them at their home address, published for all to see, they could see that they were expected to pay the same as their neighbour with the same size house - and more importantly, they didn't read on a discussion forum that there was going to be a substantial extra payment demanded when they turned up to pay.
This is the correct section for a new topic to start if one is required. If a private discussion area is required it's no problem, but you really need 10+ members wanting it first.
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Well OK people, what are we waiting for, lets do it!!!!!!
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i think you should be very careful what your letting yourself in for if you do go for it and am not exactly sure what you are going for,peece says he wants a road and wants to join with turks, others have got a road and dont want to pay, also that there is a two tier payment system. etc.
be aware you mostly dont know the launguage or the legal system, your up against a democratically elected government body with their own in house lawyers and police force, if you do loose your fight you will be liable for court costs, your lawyers fees , their lawyers fees and fines on unpaid bills.
but good luck anyway..i think you might need it.
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To paraphrse Shania Twain. Thery'e gonn getcha and getcha good!
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I think most people are willing to pay towards inprovments. We don't expect something for nothing. However it would be useful to get a breakdown of the bills. I personally don't understand why the value of your property should influence the amount you are asked to pay for road tax. I'm not entirely convinced that everybody is expected to pay, despite Phil and Fatih being told that is the case. I know we'll end up paying, we always do...but what is wrong with finding out first exactly what it is we are paying for.
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I went in today to find out what we are expected to pay on our 70sq metre apartment. we were told 480TL.The man didn't mention the 25% discount for early payment. When my hubby mentioned it the clerk acted flummoxed and then said if we paid before 31st Dec it would be 360TL...Strange that we are expected to pay the same as our neighbour in the same block who has the double duplex (3 times the size of our apartment). Also strange that a friend of ours has an apartment aprox twice the size of ours and their tax was quoted at just over 200TL !!!.I also noted that the clerk DID NOT say that this was a one off payment.
I asked for a bill to take to my solicitor and the clerk ignored me....so for the time being I am going to ignore this bill, until they write to me and tell me what I am supposed to pay.
I have a feeling that this topic is going to run and run. Also I was talking to a brit who lives in rented accommodation and they said that they do not have to pay....so it appears that it is ONLY the home owners (ie Yabançi) are being targeted.
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it appears that it is ONLY the home owners (ie Yabançi) are being targeted
Your thinking is totally ridiculous! You think only foreigners own property in Fethiye????
And the owners of properties should pay for improvements, why should renters pay for new benefits to someone else's property? That goes for any country.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
it appears that it is ONLY the home owners (ie Yabançi) are being targeted
Your thinking is totally ridiculous! You think only foreigners own property in Fethiye????
And the owners of properties should pay for improvements, why should renters pay for new benefits to someone else's property? That goes for any country.
Where I live there are only 10 apartments that are owned by Brits. The other 32 are all rented.We live in a low income area....I doubt that the landlords of these 32 rented apartments will be charged this tax because they cannot pass it on to the renters (they will just move elsewhere).
The question arises as to the discrepancy in charges.No-one seems to know how this tax is worked out.I don't mind paying a fair share, but this tax for the roads appears to be unjust to the home owners.
As for my thinking being ridiculous Mr Scunner, You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
it appears that it is ONLY the home owners (ie Yabançi) are being targeted
Your thinking is totally ridiculous! You think only foreigners own property in Fethiye????
And the owners of properties should pay for improvements, why should renters pay for new benefits to someone else's property? That goes for any country.
I would also point out that when you pay your (vehicle) road tax in the U.K it is for the roads. What is the vehicle tax here used for?
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The other 32 are all rented.We live in a low income area....I doubt that the landlords of these 32 rented apartments will be charged this tax because they cannot pass it on to the renters
The hard done by landlords in this "low income area" are soooo poor they own 32 apartments between them!!! Possibly all 32 are owned by one person - he can't pay 866 lira x 32? Tough, make do with only owning 31 apartments (oh the shame of it) and flog one to pay the bill. Would you let some Cheshire Lord of the Manor off his Poll Tax because his house is so massive he can't pay?
Why should renters pay? They rent the property and will realise no benefit in it's improved value that comes with upgraded infrastructure.
Do you REALLY think there is a mechanism in place at Fethiye Belediye that divides the amount of expenditure on roads between the number of British property owners? Is it plausible in any way at all???
.I don't mind paying a fair share, but this tax for the roads appears to be unjust to the home owners.
Why is it unjust? Who do you think should be paying?
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quote:
Originally posted by scouser2swife
I would also point out that when you pay your (vehicle) road tax in the U.K it is for the roads.
I don't think you really believe that either :D
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quote:
I would also point out that when you pay your (vehicle) road tax in the U.K it is for the roads.
No it's not - it's for ice rinks:(
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Why is it unjust? Who do you think should be paying?
Everyone should pay the same amount! When we lived in the U.K. everyone in the same street, in the same size houses paid the same amount of council/ poll tax, whether it was rented or not. All I am asking is for fair play. I realise that we live in Turkey, but surely the same logic should apply. Also,in the U.K. the fees payable were printed in the local press and bills sent out so that everyone knew what they had to pay.
What I am trying to say Mr Scunner, is that bills should have been sent out to all tennants and printed in the local papers for everyone to see what they are being charged.
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Your main claim is that the owners of the rented out properties won't be charged because it is a poor area and they can't pay. These landlords own (even at a measly 35k per apartment) A MILLION POUNDS worth of property. Yes, you may be right, the Belediye will probably let these poor people off.
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Exactly!!
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No I was being sarcastic.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
No I was being sarcastic.
We will have to agree to differ in opinion on this.
all I want to know is why haven't the amounts to be paid been published in the local press, and why haven't bills been sent out.That way everyone can see that the monies are being collected justly and fairly. At the moment everyone is being quoted different amounts regardless of the size of their property.
The council should ensure that All property owners pay regardless of whether they rent out their properties or not.
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If you go to the Belediye offices they will confirm how much you need to pay. You did that and were told 480 YTL. I am not the defender of Turkish fair play, indeed I could tell tales of corruption that would quite possibly horrify you. Now, if the story was that the clerk didn't tell you about the 25% discount for early payment, I would believe it. I would believe that clerks don't tell non-Turkish speaking people about this. I would suspect they might well take your 480 YTL, stick 360 in the till and 120 in their pocket. It's wrong but it wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit. Not being able to speak the language makes you weak. Understanding what needs to be paid is YOUR responsibility, not theirs. You have evidence to back up your ludicrous funding scandal theory here there and everywhere - comparisons that cement your beliefs even more; but your evidence is total rubbish. The man who pays the same as you with the "huge duplex" technically has the same as you really, a one floor apartment with a roof space. The people who have a massive apartment who pay less than you probably have a much lower value on their tapu.
You see for me, there is no story over there you can tell me about corrupt people that I could never believe. The problem is you have concocted a conspiracy theory that involves the entire Belediye budget being approved and passed based on mathematics that charge only foreigners - and that is something you must have dreamt up in cloud cuckoo land.
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quote:
Originally posted by scouser2swife
The council should ensure that All property owners pay regardless of whether they rent out their properties or not.
They do. You refuse to believe it though.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
If you go to the Belediye offices they will confirm how much you need to pay. You did that and were told 480 YTL. I am not the defender of Turkish fair play, indeed I could tell tales of corruption that would quite possibly horrify you. Now, if the story was that the clerk didn't tell you about the 25% discount for early payment, I would believe it. I would believe that clerks don't tell non-Turkish speaking people about this. I would suspect they might well take your 480 YTL, stick 360 in the till and 120 in their pocket. It's wrong but it wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit. Not being able to speak the language makes you weak. Understanding what needs to be paid is YOUR responsibility, not theirs. You have evidence to back up your ludicrous funding scandal theory here there and everywhere - comparisons that cement your beliefs even more; but your evidence is total rubbish. The man who pays the same as you with the "huge duplex" technically has the same as you really, a one floor apartment with a roof space. The people who have a massive apartment who pay less than you probably have a much lower value on their tapu.
You see for me, there is no story over there you can tell me about corrupt people that I could never believe. The problem is you have concocted a conspiracy theory that involves the entire Belediye budget being approved and passed based on mathematics that charge only foreigners - and that is something you must have dreamt up in cloud cuckoo land.
If that is the case WHY are so many people over here unhappy about the way the Belediye have handled this tax.Are we all living in 'cloud cuckoo land'? I have not concocted a conspiracy theory...there are so many different opinions posted here on this forum, people can make their own minds up.
As I have said before Mr Scunner...You have your opinion and I have mine, and every other person on this forum has the power to draw their own conclusion as to what is going on here in Turkey. Every person will make up their own mind. At the end of the day people will either pay it or not.
I do take exception to your attitude towarsd me. Your views are your views and I am entitled to my opinion...or am I?
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Yes, having different opinions does help a good argument. There's no need to take exception to my attitude towards you, it's not personal. I think you are entirely wrong but I'd argue with any of the 6000 members who held the same opinion as you. If we all agreed, CBF would be rubbish.
Goodnight :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Yes, having different opinions does help a good argument. There's no need to take exception to my attitude towards you, it's not personal. I think you are entirely wrong but I'd argue with any of the 6000 members who held the same opinion as you. If we all agreed, CBF would be rubbish.
Goodnight :)
Agreed. I love a good argument.
Goodnight. ;)
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Can I just point out again that we were told the tax was based on the VALUE of your property on your tapu not the size.
The tax applies to all property owners.
Bills showing a breakdown are being sent out, they had reached 8000, where we live was 36,000th on the list.
Fatih (Turkish) was told he would have to pay as well.
We are going to take tapus belonging to other owners (at their request) to the tax office, it will be interesting to see if the officials still give us the same information.
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It is important that people do actually believe that all property owners will pay (or at least have to pay, they may choose not to and rack up huge fines which eventually they will have to pay). To actually believe that non-nationals who own property in Turkey were targeted by the Belediye as a means to pay all the costs shows a worrying opinion of what is actually a council that has overseen a very impressive improvement of the area over recent years.
To think that the Turkish owners of property (in the specific case given valuing over £1,000,000) can be excused paying due to being poor is ludicrous. They will have to pay. No bills were sent out. Are your local council tax bills sent out? No you go along and find out how much you have to pay. Again I don't think it's ideal and I do think it should all be in the local paper and posted to each house but because that doesn't happen in Turkey doesn't mean there is something going on.
The Belediye would probably be shocked to hear of such thoughts. They would possibly point to the increase in values they achieved for property owners of all nationalities with the new roads, canalisation and progressing Fethiye promenade projects. What comes across is a total lack of belief in the local belediye and certainly total disrespect. I don't think they deserve anything even close to that.
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This road tax will be paid by owners, definately no matter which nationality they have. And area's being poor or rich doesn't matter either.
It is not being charged to deeds, it is being charged personaly to owners.
This is what I was told in council.
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I don't feel disrespect towards the council. They've done great work...although I'd still prefer to have a block paved road. :)
It is odd though that Cenk was told the tax had nothing to with your deeds (guess that means tapus?) when Phil and Fatih were told it was based on your tapu.
In fact Phil had to phone me from the office to get details of our tapu as he hadn't brought it with him.
This is the kind of thing that makes people think we're all being given conflicting/incorrect information and causes confusion.
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What it means is the debt is personal, not a debt against the property. It comes from the deed value but is a personal tax.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
What it means is the debt is personal, not a debt against the property. It comes from the deed value but is a personal tax.
This is definately correct. No need for tapu, you can make the search by names in council.
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Not going to get into any arguments.
Fact is Phil had to phone me at home to get the value of the property from our tapu even though our details were on their computers.
The official then worked out how much we had to pay, based on the value stated on the tapu. He even gave Phil the paper with the calcualtion.
Confused now. Cenk, does this mean we can go in and get the bill for our neighbours, who are based in the UK, without producing their tapus?
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Just to clarify - what we mean is that the debt is based on the deed value, and of course you need to know your tapu valuation for that, but it is a personal debt rather than a property debt...
Therefore, if you sell your house and haven't paid this, it does not become the responsibility of the people you sold to, you take the debt with you.
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quote:
Originally posted by janmack
Confused now. Cenk, does this mean we can go in and get the bill for our neighbours, who are based in the UK, without producing their tapus?
I agree that it is confusing. You can learn the amount of debt of someone else.
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Yes we understand all that Keith.
Basically we have been asked by a number of owners on our complex, who live in the UK, to find out how much they owe.
Phil and Fatih were advised tapus had to produced to establish this, so we have to wait for these owners to scan their tapus and send us copies.
Going by what Cenk was told, it sounds like this is not the case, which would be great as it would save us a lot of time...not to mention paper and ink!
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Sorry, Cenk beat me to it...he's already answered ;)
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Forgot to tell, it can be learnt by names. But if name change is done in the council after the deed transfer.
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I have been told that if the tapu has two names on it you have to pay double. Is this correct or am i been misled?
after reading all these posts i'm confused.
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Contact a solicitor before any payment,Ours advised us not to pay as its a ploy to get money as the belidiye are brassic.
She also said there will be an increase but not much.
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Which solicitor said that?
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quote:
Originally posted by suzi Q
I have been told that if the tapu has two names on it you have to pay double. Is this correct or am i been misled?
after reading all these posts i'm confused.
If there are two names on the tapu then you pay twice.
The receipts are set out similarly to the Belediye "Council tax" receipts
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Yes you pay twice but the amount is split.
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Just to complicate matters - we went in to the Belediyesi offices in Fethiye today and asked to pay our 2010 council tax.
We had paid 2009 in April as we always do.
The man said he would not be able to give me the amount due for 10-days and even then it was ok to pay it in April - no mention of road tax / 25% discount etc etc..
Confused from Rochdale !!!
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Ian, if you paid your council tax in April and in full for the year then you will not be asked to pay again until April.
I think you have confused this man at the council by wanting to pay for another year before it is due.
Confused from Hampshire:D ;)
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Loz - hi - hope you are both well???
All I wanted was my 25% discount - sod the bill :)
Happy New Year to you and Gordon :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
All I wanted was my 25% discount - sod the bill :)
:)
I should have guessed!:D
Happy new year to you and Gill, hope to see you in the not so distant future.
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So, what is the consensus of opinion here then?
Some are happy to pay whatever. Some are happy to pay as long as they know what they are paying. Some will pay if they have to. Some will not pay.
Do we all go it alone in that fine British stiff upper lip way!
Or; do we get together and in that fine upstanding way that rid the world of Lady Thatcher, God rest her Leadership.
Or; do we forget it happened and act as if the world turns as it normally does in Turkey, i.e, corruptively, (is that a word).
Your call people?
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I have been today again to pay for a friend who is in the UK, it is simple as I said in another thread the bill is for 2008 everybody has to pay it, I know many Turkish people who have paid, the rate is set on the value on your tapu.
We pay a nominal fee for Council Tax so stop wingeing and pay what is due.
Mark
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Whinging eh?
What happened to principles.
It is very obvious that this tax is not being worked out fairly.
So, no, I won't stop whinging.
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well said karaokemark.
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quote:
Originally posted by my way
It is very obvious that this tax is not being worked out fairly.
Is it?
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quote:
Originally posted by brianthegardener
well said karaokemark.
So did you have to pay Brian, or are you one of the lucky ones who got away with it or paying or a small amount of cash?
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Let's see if we can produce:
1. A single property owner who "got away with it"
or
2. A single property owner who paid "a small amount of cash"
For the tenth time, everyone has to pay
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Myway E-mail me via my profile please. :D 8) :-\ ;)
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Good idea, paranoia should be exchanged by email :)
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Posted - 04 December 2009 : 15:48:17
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by chance we both went to belediye, my wife works in fethiye and i went there without her knowing. (my wife is turk)
we got two figures for our tapu - 172 lira when my wife went and a whopping 944 lira when i enquired.
I don't think that I am paranoid Mr Scunner, Especially when I read things like this!!!
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A misunderstanding.
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Yes and the poll tax they didn't pay was a figure that was sent to them at their home address, published for all to see, they could see that they were expected to pay the same as their neighbour with the same size house - and more importantly, they didn't read on a discussion forum that there was going to be a substantial extra payment demanded when they turned up to pay.
Your words Mr scunner
Every council tax demand (from what has been discussed) is different.
I am not paranoid Keith, but the amounts demanded appear to be illogical. If the amounts charged were equal I could understand, but there seems to be a discrepancy about the amounts charged. This could be due to the TAPU (in regards to the purchase price...a lot of estate agents have put a smaller purchase price on the Tapu, to lower the tax payable by the vendor/buyer).
Anyway I am tired of his subject. Each to their own...people will pay it or not. It is up to people to make up their own minds.
Enough said .
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the price on your tapu was NOT calculated bye estate agents, .
that along with a whole pile of other misinformation on this topic must have people totally confused.
belediye brassic! what a joke.
people should read or reread scunners explanation on the subject, its well explained, accurate and to the point.
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I don't think this topic is going anywhere now. Thanks to those who have provided info and tried to explain.
Stuart - my husband and our (Turkish) maintenance provider spoke to the officials in the tax office.
I posted on here what they were told.
If that is misinformation then it came from the tax office itself...and if they cannot explain it what hope is there???
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"Yes and the poll tax they didn't pay was a figure that was sent to them at their home address, published for all to see, they could see that they were expected to pay the same as their neighbour with the same size house - and more importantly, they didn't read on a discussion forum that there was going to be a substantial extra payment demanded when they turned up to pay".
Yes, my words - explaining how the UK Community charge differs in administration to local rates in Turkey. I also explained (later in the topic) that it would be better for the conspiracy theorisers if they adopted the UK way but in Turkey things are different. The way you find out how much you owe and physically pay is no different to the annual charge but nobody is making wild accusations about that.
Karaokemark went to pay for his neighbour's charge. If you are that confused or paranoid and think Turkish owners of 32 apartments are too poor to pay so won't have to, take one of their telecom or other bills out of the gate or wherever the postman dumps them, and do as Mark did - go and tell them you want to pay their road tax - then maybe you will finally allow yourselves to accept that everyone has to pay, Turks who are a bit short of cash right now still have to pay, and they have to pay the same as you would if you owned their place.
I also think this topic may have run it's course but let's see.
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The best I heard on this topic was a Turkish friend asking me what the problem was in this topic. I explained that people thought it was a con, to get more money out of the British. He replied "It is a con, but to get more money out of all of us" :)
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How about you start listening to people Scunner, instead of trying to run people and your site from afar.
Stop trying to be clever. Many people can't be wrong. And yes we are concerned. So you continue to discuss our issues from your Foreign position.
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I must say Bill you may have broken your record on the forum for the time between returning as Mr Reasonable then soon after leaving, slagging off the forum and everyone on it.
Running the forum from afar is easy - you can see the bigotry and anti-Turkish sentiment so clearly from "some". My "Foreign position" is STILL better informed than yours! As for 'many people can't be wrong', I make it you and scouser2swife. 2 = "Many" in Calis now does it?
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I am afraid you are wrong. If you were here, you would know the word on the street is one of dispair and anger.
Still, you carry on playing games from afar!
I thought this site was for the people, not for you to ingratiate your own self beliefs and play cyber bully!
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Sorry myway...once you brought Maggie Thatcher into it I lost interest!
Anyway, hope everyone has a fab 2010.
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Sorry myway...once you brought Maggie Thatcher into it I lost interest!
Where does Maggie Thatcher come in to it?
Now, if you are talking Santa Claus, then you must be one of his little helpers!
I am sure Scunner can fight his own battles without you. Or are you giving your opinion, as is your democratic right on Mr Scunner's personal Calis website?
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The beliefs of everyone who wish to share theirs are here Bill. Not just my views, so no "cyberbullying" I'm afraid! Sorry if that doesn't fit your argument.
Everyone pays the tax, Turkish, British and anything else. One day you'll come to places like this and see the reasoning that disagrees with your opinion rather than just seeing those that agree with you.
Anyway, isn't it about time you spat your dummy, slagged off CBF, me and all the members and took your ball home?
If anyone can prove that British people are paying and Turkish people aren't, start a new topic. This topic is now pointless and has been ended.