Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Bar and Restaurant Questions and Discussions => Topic started by: nichola on April 15, 2010, 23:08:37 PM
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our butcher is putting meat prices up by 10% this Sunday!
Why...
1. a couple of years ago meat (beef) prices were low and the cost of food to feed cows was expensive so the farmers culled their cow stocks as they couldn't earn enough money to make a profit.
Consequently there is now a shortage of meat and that pushes prices up. It is going to take a couple more years for farmers to increase their cow herds therefore meat prices will remain high for the foreseeable future.
2. under Turkish law meat (chicken/beef/lamb/liver) can not be imported to protect Turkish farmers.
3. Turkey exports meat to other countries like Russia, for example 60-70 thousand tonnes of chicken this year. Again this will create a shortage and push prices up. Chicken has already risen by about 10% in the past month.
A bit of interesting (I think) information...
- Turks eat approx 6 kilos of meat per year
- Americans eat approx 90 kilos per year
- Europeans eat approx 40 kilos per year
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Intresting that. Another interesting fact is importd pork is now cheaper than either beef or lamb here!
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They stated on the news that beef has gone up in price. They stated that mince has gone up to 30TL a kilo. This will effect restaurants and eating houses all over Turkey. Last years prices for steak etc will rise from around 20-25TL to around 25-30TL this year.
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Pricing themselves out of the Tourist market I'm afraid. Cheaper to eat out in the UK. When you consider the price of flights to Turkey and the cost of living for the tourist people will be thinking again!!
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It not just tourism that is affected - but all people in Turkey which is probably one reason why many Turks don't eat much meat...
...but, having spoken to many people here on holiday often for the first time particularly over the last couple of years and even the past few weeks they say they find Turkey a cheap place to holiday by comparison to European countries especially those that have the Euro.
It is usually those that have been coming here for years that feel that Turkey has become more expensive. Of course it has but it is also relative.
Food and eating out can be cheap in the UK but there are particular reasons for that.
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My first visit to Turkey was to Gumbet 16 years ago when it was just the one main street and nothing else. Every day you would see the Taxman visiting the aprtments/hotels/supermarkets to inform them that the taxes were going up the following day. Every year we have seen the price rises. It does depend whereabouts in europe you holiday as to how much you pay. It is not the first time that I have posted "Is Turkey getting ready for the euro?" If that it is the case people from the UK will be saying 'Why should I do a 4 1/2 flight to get the same as what I can get for only going 2 hours'
I for one hope the Euro never happens!!
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It's a delicate situation and of course the low amount of meat eaten by Turks is a reflection of the situation but in fairness that has long been the case. Turkish people are generally adapted to diets that follow affordable items. I can't see how it is the same for holidaymakers - you can't expect British and European visitors to give up on meat for a fortnight and dine out on chick peas and numerous courgette based concoctions.
As a family of four, our biggest expense by far on holiday is eating out - and I won't want to be telling my two kids that chicken nuggets and burgers are such a ridiculous price that they will need to think again, I want them to have what they want.
I don't really benefit from the 2.5 lira Efes, I'm not much of a beer drinker - I'm already paying £4-£5 for a short and mixer, and many pounds for a fairly dreadful bottle of wine, now I'm maybe going to have to find big money each time we eat out and don't go for the olive pie? Remind me, which holiday expenses are they that makes Turkey attractive with the Euro making Europe so expensive? I can't think of much to be honest.
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I should clarify, the point I am trying to make is that the ban on importing meat as detailed by Nichola may well be to protect Turkish livestock farmers, and I'm sure it does, but once again it does appear to me to be the old Turkish classic - a law to protect a few stands to harm many, many more.
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Decent meal 25tl x 2 = 50tl (Thats only a main course) x 14 days = 700tl = £307 not cheap and that is for only 1 meal you add on a breakfast, sandwich for lunch, drinks, ice creams etc and its a lot of money!!
Think Turkey should stop exporting their goods at cheap prices and forget even thinking of going into the euro!!
Pricing themselves out of the tourist market
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I don't know the answer to this question, but is the price of meat in Spain falling ?.
I somehow doubt it.
As with most things, everything is relative.
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I don't know the price of meat in Spain, all I know is I only pay £5+ for a kilo of mince, £8+ for a joint of beef, £14 for Angus Rib Eye. Chicken breast £7. Smoked cod fillet £8.
As you say Mr 'H' everything is relative and going on the current prices in Turkey I ask again are they pricing themselves out of the market? A piece in todays Mirror says more people are staying at home this year, and with the high cost of flights to Turkey any ideas on what will happen?
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This a prime example of market forces at their worst. Demand is high, supplies are low therefore the price goes up!
I understand that there is a 'meat cartel' in Turkey with a huge lobby and ties to govt that protect their interests, hence the no meat imports.
We can't work out who is actually benefitting. Three butchers went bust in Mugla just this week.
When Dogan was in the butchers expressing the opinion that Turkey should allow meat imports if only for the six months of the summer season a farmer who happened to be there declared he doesn't make money already and this would put him out of business. I am sure you can imagine the sound level of the debate that followed!!!
We have been in touch with butchers outside of this area (we don't buy meat in winter when it is cheap and freeze it as this would affect the quality of what we want to provide) and prices have gone up everywhere, not just here.
This is a real dilema for businesses here and I wonder after the economic crisis last year (never mind the fact that currently there are no flights in or out of Turkey for who knows how long) how many places will survive this season.
Incidently I have a mate with friends who having lived in Spain, can no longer afford to and are returning to the UK and last summer they stocked up on meat to take back to Spain instead of the normal Primark shopping because a. shops had run out of meat and b. prices for what little there had been had gone through the roof.
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As I see it, you have to choose between the ideal - allowing free import and export - and the not so ideal - protecting by not allowing imports and not allowing exports. To allow farmers to export while protecting them from foreigners doing the same back will result in...well, it will result in exactly what Turkey is finding right now.
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By the way I don't think Turkey is getting ready for the Euro. The cost of living here has always been relatively high compared to the average income for most Turkish people.
That's why many Turks grow their own veg and keep chickens, goats and a few sheep make their own bread, butter, cheese and yoghurt, not to forget jams and pickles and pekmez, keep bees for honey and produce their own olive oil and have fruit trees in their gardens. :)
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One of Europe's conditions on entry is that Turkey dramatically reduces its agriculture production.
Why becaue it would have to then provide the same agriculture subsidies that it gives to other European countries. Just one reason why much food including, in fact particularly meat is cheap in the UK.
The impact on Turkey would be that it then puts thousands of people out of work and makes it more dependant on imports.
Greece doesn't want Turkey in the EU not because of Cyprus but because it would then have to share European markets for yoghurt and feta cheese and olive oil just to name a few.
I have just had a thought. In 20 minutes some people are getting up to go to the car boot in Çalis and I am still up talking politics :D
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Using data readily available for average income in different countries, and information provided in this topic, it is possible to calculate facts that might actually mean something.
As a percentage of income, a kilo of mince, to cost the same proportion of earnings to an "average" Brit as it would to an "average" Turk, would have to cost £139/kg in the UK.
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Sorry Nichola I don't think this has anything to do with the income for most Turkish people. The people in the more rural areas have always lived off the land and teach their children to do the same, those in the main towns do not have the land to be able to do this. I agree with Scunner Turkey needs to decide whether to allow free trade or not. They cannot sell their assets and not allow imports to balance the staus quo.
Turkey have applied to join the euro so they will then have to decide!
The prices I posted are from ASDA and you can freely check on their website. I do feel sorry for any food business in Turkey who are trying to keep the prices low for the tourists and be able to survive.
My local in a nice area are doing meals for £3.49 its cheaper to eat out than stay in.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Using data readily available for average income in different countries, and information provided in this topic, it is possible to calculate facts that might actually mean something.
As a percentage of income, a kilo of mince, to cost the same proportion of earnings to an "average" Brit as it would to an "average" Turk, would have to cost £139/kg in the UK.
I trust your figures but is that a before of after taking account of the billions in subsidies paid to European farmers... [?]
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Turkey is one of the only countries in the world that is 'Self-sufficient' why are they exporting all their meat and leaving nothing for the people, tourists etc? an that is not the only commodity!!
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Greed of a few!
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quote:
Originally posted by nichola
I trust your figures but is that a before of after taking account of the billions in subsidies paid to European farmers... [?]
Well no, it takes the price of mince in Turkey as a percentage of average annual income there, then uses the same percentage to work out what price mince would have to be in the UK to take up the same percentage of an average Brit's income.
You can introduce EU subsidies and the like but the real equation is how much does it cost and how much do I earn. I got A level economics me :D
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Oh well I couldn't even get a grade at GCSE maths... ;) and the only figures I can manage are my own accounts, always been good at those :D
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You did better than me Keith I only got GCE!! (And still remember the meaning of it - the teacher frightened me to death in his black cloak)
I agree figures don't add up!!
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And don't forget, if you are to cite EU policy, then you mustn't ignore TR policy - a home market which THEY have created, where the vast majority of Turkish farmers prefer to sell their wares abroad. This is a direct result of government policy - one that leaves "the people" having to pay top prices for meat because most of it was exported.
You can't ban the import of products and genuinely want to be part of the "single market" of the EU - Turkey has so much to change before it is even considered.
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Cheers twice you have said Turkey has applied to join the Euro. It has not, it has applied to join the EU. I think you are getting the European Union muddled up with the currency.
There has been a deal of criticism of Turkey and the way she uses protectionism. The EU, USA and China are no different in using tariffs to protect their own farmers and industries.
The massive expansion of the EU has resulted in the icing having to be spread more thinly over countries and the massive influx of money that countries like Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal saw when they joined the EU will not be available to Turkey if she joins.
Turkey exports farm produce to earn hard currency.Turkey has been and could still be in recession and the latest figures from the Turkish central bank shows that inflation has fallen but the economy also contracted.
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nobody seems to be taking into account the weakness of the pound.
i estimate most consumer prices over the last five years in turkey have doubled due to it.
and the prospects of a hung parliament is not going to help
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quote:
Originally posted by stuart
i estimate most consumer prices over the last five years in turkey have doubled due to it.
How?
Mince was 15TL for a kilo now 30TL, where did the weakness of the pound play a part?
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because you dont get so many lira for your pound...and the pound hasnt kept pace with turkish inflation
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How many TL to the pound is irrelevant. As Scunner say above the price in TL has doubled.
When you are on holiday here or if you are living here and your income is sterling based then over time the amount of TL that you have available has eroded due to the depreciation in the value of the pound. This is a different issue but it is a factor when you calculate the Turkish cost of living in sterling. The fall in sterling with the rise in prices makes Turkey appear even more expensive.
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Sorry if I didn't make myself understood Sarah.
What I meant was that every country which has taken the Euro as their currency have seen their prices rise dramatically. Turkey was always cheap because it had the TL. Have followed the euro around before and after it was introduced. With the prices rising as they are now in Turkey it was a comment are they getting ready to take the euro? People will stop visiting as it will be cheaper to go to Europe!!