Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum => Topic started by: chris abram on June 30, 2010, 17:50:31 PM
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On 22nd July 2003 I purchased a "Hereke" carpet made by the Ginar family at Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy, near Fethiye, which cost me £10,000. I still have the receipts and sales invoice.
I then had to wait some time for it to arrive and, when it did, it did not have a Certificate of Authenticity with it. I then spent some time contacting the sales office trying to get this certificate.
This made me rather suspicious and I asked London Auctioneers Bonhams and several other carpet experts to have a look at this "Hereke" carpet and they all said that it was not from Hereke. However at that time, one said they thought it was from Tabriz and the others said that this was a Chinese copy.It is now begining to look as though it IS a Chinese copy, although the experts say that it is an excellent one.
When I did eventually receive the Certificate of Authenticity on the 19th September 2003 I sent an email doubting the authenticity of this carpet to Mr Ali Ding, Production Manager. I received no satisfaction.
Since then I have been try to get my money back.
I even filmed the factory whilst I was there but I have just had an email from the official Ginar company that there has never been a governmnt factory near Fethiye.
Does this "government" carpet factory still exist?
How can I contact the British Consulate in Fethiye?
Does anyone know of any additional action that I can take?
I came to Kaya Koy, Fethiye and Olu Denis for several years and if I can obtain enough information I will come back again shortly, but this time with my friendly Turkish solicitor friend. (And possibly a shotgun!!!!!)
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A grievance since 2003! Wow I am glad I am not you. Best of luck getting your money back.
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Why have you waited 7 years?
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If you are coming back with your Turkish solicitor friend, he is just the person to answer the questions - not sure why you are asking here? Not many people are lucky enough to have a Turkish solicitor friend.
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Seven years is a very long time. I wish you luck in trying to get your money back. As an Antique dealer in the U.K. I know you would get a refund here but I think you are on shakey ground in Turkey. Incidentally, its very common knowledge in my business that you will always buy a Turkish carpet cheaper in the U.K. than in Turkey. Things are always more expensive to buy at the source of where they are made.
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Yes, i found that at ikea ;)....Flog it:D
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I can't believe you parted with 10k for a rug that you couldn't authenticate, well actualy I can't believe you paid 10k for a rug full stop!!
However if you did want a "hereke" carpet and were prepared to pay as much why not go to the town where they are fomous for and buy one there after all for the vast majority of us £10k is a lot of £££££'s
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quote:
Originally posted by chris abram
I purchased a "Hereke" carpet made by the Ginar family at Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy, near Fethiye, which cost me £10,000..............
Shouldn't this have been posted in the Jokes Section ? :D
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He can buy my rug for a fiver!
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i purchased a rolex for £6.50 and that was fake to
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quote:
Originally posted by steveb1
i purchased a rolex for £6.50 and that was fake to
It obviously is a fake at that price. Mine is genuine, as I paid 20 euros in Corfu for it, and was assured by the vendor that it had come direct from the Rolex factory.
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Are Rolex making rugs now ?
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In my early days in real estate in Turkey things could be bought incredibly cheaply even compared with now. once met a woman who bought an apartment in Tuzla for £20,000 - and a rug for it's living room for £24,000.
The mathematics here are: 60 seconds/One born
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What no sympathy?
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quote:
Originally posted by KKOB
Are Rolex making rugs now ?
They will make anything for a price these days Alan
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Took me all of 20 seconds to find out what a Hereke rug was, and it definitely isn't one thats made in Saklikent.
So no sympathy from me.
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I have an original pair of Ghandi's flip flops going cheap at just 5k......Certificate of authenticity to follow xxxx
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I note that an Auction room in England are selling some old rugs at a forthcoming Auction. The most expensive is estimated at £2,000 and they do have a Hereke.. This is description
"A Hereke silk prayer rug, south west Anatolia, early 20th century, 72 x 47.5in (183 x 121cm).
As with most Turkish prayer rugs the pile is in the opposite direction of the design. Estimated £300-400 "
Website http://www.woolleyandwallis.co.uk/catalogue.aspx?SaleID=403&Page=1#Lot13
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I'm no expert, I prefer a good deep shag myself but I can't imagine too many situations where such rugs/carpets of 5 figure prices would actually be done any justice. Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the intricacy, the skill and the history - and some look amazing. But not in my house, or any house I can think of off-hand. Maybe in an old Paspatur home or a lavish Istanbul hotel reception/lounge.
So what is the motivation behind spending £10,000+ and taking them into a Wimpey home? Or is it to sell on for a quick profit? It's all entirely beyond me :D
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I was offered a beautiful 'silk' rug for £20,000 in one of those 'Government' places. Choked on my chi!
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I was offered a beautiful 'silk' rug for £20,000 in one of those 'Government' places. Choked on my chi!
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quote:
Originally posted by chris abram
On 22nd July 2003 I purchased a "Hereke" carpet made by the Ginar family at Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy, near Fethiye
Oh no you didn't :-\
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In January 1998 I bought a Cornish Pasty, made by the Macmillan family at Aberdeen
Hmmm
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Mr Ali Ding......carpet sales man ? Mr Aladdin perhaps ? me thinks big wind up :D
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Did you check the sell by date Keith,have you still got it?.Seriously,all my neighbors nice turkish people,doctors,dentists,architects etc,have their carpets hung over their respective balconies by their cleaning ladies,and I remember seeing english carpets in the late fifties/sixties. looking just as tatty Dont understand the attraction.
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Also to add to the conspiracy theories, the author of this 7 year old tale never even came back once to see if anyone had offered him any late-in-the-day lifelines. You would, wouldn't you :D
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
In January 1998 I bought a Cornish Pasty, made by the Macmillan family at Aberdeen
Hmmm
I got a stick of Blackpool rock made in Llandudno in 1979.
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I got a stick of rock in 1974 during our family holiday to Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch. I'm still eating it.
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;):D
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What a strange post imo womder what the reason was behind it ?
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Is it a coincidence....logged on to this page and a banner advert was for oriental carpets:D
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You can buy these carpets / rugs in any Peckham pub (nr the Mandella Estate) for far less, I know Trotters Independent Trading have branches in New York, Paris and Peckham maybe they've opened a branch in Turkey? 10k for a rug!!!! kin'hell Elton John paid less than that for his!!!!!!! I cant believe anyone would part with that much dosh then whine years later, must have been a day trip on a 'Care in the Community' bus and he paid with Monopoly money? :-)
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there is a Trotters Trading in Hisaranou....I kid you not !!!:D:D
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Yes, reading the moronic postings which have been made makes me realise how I was taken in but at the time, especially as I had gone on a visit arranged by a VERY reputable organisation, Mr Nick Wrightsman's Tapestry Holidays, it all seemed like a wise investment.
Just to clear one thing up, I haven't left it seven years. Before I got the carpet in the UK I started querying the fact that they still hadn't sent me the Certificate of Authenticity. As soon as I received the carpet and photographed it I offerred it for verification through several specialists here in the UK, including the auction house Bonhams. All were uncertain as to whether it was a Hereke carpet or not. Since my retirement I have been trying to further this via the Turkish Office in London and through the "Honorary Consulate" in Fethiye, but what a waste of space they are!
I am simply trying to establish from any local Brit from the Fethiye area whether or not this so called "Government Carpet Factory at Saklikent Yolu Kadikoy" still exists. Can any sensible resident of that area help?
My advice to anyone is never buy a Turkish carpet.
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Why not? I have a few Turkish rugs which I love. I also have a Persian rug and an Indian silk rug.
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i have a Turkish mug, its got a lovely eye pattern,i quiet like it thanks:D
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We have a fantastic Hereke mat - bought at a reasonable price, with its authenticity guarantee. We adore it and are glad we bought it - and did the appropriate research before buying it. we also have a few other turkish rugs, all of which are beautiful works of art. part of the value to us is that someone has painstakingly sat at the loom for months on end producing such incredible pieces of art.
I think your post should read 'My advice to anyone is never buy a Turkish carpet.......if they don't know what they are buying'. Always seek advise and do your research :)
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The government carpet place was still at Saklikent when I went last year. They run some sort of co-operative for the workers.
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carpetland in the uk used to do good deals!!
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Chris, please forgive the cynism of the replies, most of us (including me) have got to the stage of 'buyer beware'.
If you are in turkey at any time would suggest you (personally) check out said establishment. For £10,000 I would make the effort.
If not happy with info/results then post on here for the name of a good solicitor.
Go from there.
Good luck
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I was not a cynic in my reply. I just know that you will get a really good Antique Turkish Carpet in the U.K. far cheaper than in Turkey. Plus in the the U.K. by law an item must be over 100 years old to describe it as an Antique. I used to stand at an Antiques Fair in Aberdeen next to a guy who came from Inverness he specialised in old carpets. He even flew down to London to tutor David Dickinson for a programme about Carpets. I remember that the bigger carpets he used to sell where never more that £5,000. In fact I watch a lot of people buying beautiful Turkish carpets from him for around the £1,000 mark.
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sounds like you got the seven year itch mate.
you have come to the wrong forum if dont expect witty comments about your predicament.
i think after leaving it for seven years you should write it off and get on with your life.
tapestry holidays are long since bust.
british consulate will just advise you to see a lawyer.
if the company does still exist.from your stated evidense i doubt any judge here would allow a court hearing about it.the company could say for example it wasnt the original carpet they sold you and how could you prove otherwise.
enjoy your carpet.fake or otherwise.
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quote:
Originally posted by chris abram
Yes, reading the moronic postings which have been made makes me realise how I was taken in
I'm pleased to read that 5 pages of advice from our members helped you realise this. I'm puzzled to understand however, how you conclude that after spending ten grand on a fake carpet that you still believe the moronic contribution of this topic came from them!
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yah, scunner's back !!
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I missed this for some reason but I actually do have a little simpathy for you. However it's neither simpathy nor ridicule that you need.
Personally I would never ever buy anything from one of these co-op 'factories' in Turkey. We've been to so many through the trips we have been on - they always take you to a diamond factory outlet or a Turkish carpet outlet etc etc and the 'hard sell' often follows. You don't say that this is how you ended up buying the carpet but my guess is that many do buy them this way. As for certificates of authenticity - they can be made in China as well ;-)
Good luck and I hope the few flippant replies on here don't put you off returning to tell us the outcome of your quest.
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Hereke carpets are only made in Hereke - about an hour from Istanbul. Anyone paying out 10 grand for one they can see being made 12 hours drive from there DEFINITELY needs sympathy or ridicule. The difficult part is deciding which one.
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.. and I can't spell :)
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Well I didn't know that Scunner - but then again I would never pay £10k for something like a carpet without first doing my research. However, 7 years ago we probably didn't have the vast amounts of information at our fingertips that we have now. For example:
http://www.ecademy.com/node.php?id=150755
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Well 7 years ago wasn't the time to spend 10 grand on a carpet then, obviously.
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It would have been if you had done your research first. Then again not everyone knows they are going to shell out for a carpet/diamond ring etc before they go on holiday. If they do know then they have no excuse at all.
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In the mid 1960's I happened to on a brief posting to Aden.
On a couple of days leave I stayed at seaman's mission near to the BP Aden jetty. Went for a walk in the afternoon and found a shop selling genuine Persian Rugs for the ridiculously low price of £50 a time.
I bought an excellent example, and it was delivered to my room within 10 minutes. Great service! I found though that it smelt a tad musty, so put it on the balcony to air.
I was staggered to find that in the morning it had disappeared.
When I complained to the mission Manager he said it must have blown off the balcony during the night. I said there was no breeze. With a grin he then asked me if I hade ever heard of their famous Magic Carpets:D:D