Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: busybee on July 16, 2010, 17:51:35 PM
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We made our first trip to Meis today to renew our residency, previously we had a 5yr residence permit.
The British folk were asked to gather round the Meis Express office in Kas and we were told that this would be the last time we could renew our visa. The cut off date for the renewal of 3mth visas will be the 10th Ocotober. After this date and you still want to renew ur visa you have to stay out of the country for 90 days.
As you would bloody expect this does not apply to Italy, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweeden, Finland and Switzerland.
He has urged us to email the Turkish Internal Affairs Ministry, the British Consulate in Fethiye the Turkish Embassy in London and anyone else we can think of. He gave us all a printed sheet with an appropiate email in Turkish and English and an email address. I will put this email on over the weekend and urge everyone to bombard officialdom with views.
I reckon 85% of foreigners residing in Turking are Brits so why are they making it so difficult to stay here?
My passport stamp says mutiple entry valid for 90 days.
So our first trip to Meis was our last.........
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This is really bad surely for a great many people- so then Turkey is not looking for people to make Turkey their home or is this a way to get people to pay for residency rather than via this route? Is this considered to be a back door route anyway? I dont know just asking as I have friends that this will adversly affect.
How does it affect people who go a few times a year and maybe just pay for one visa in a 90 day period? Will they still be able to go back within that time. That might be a bit of a thicko question but I cant get my head round this - (I've been redesigning a governance structure all day and my heads fuddled!)
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Its ok if they come for 2-3 wks, but if they stay the full 90 days then they have to stay our of Turey for 90 days. Yes its a muckin fuddle. 8)
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I would be careful filling out those forms, you would be admitting that you reside in turkey using tourist visas, which is against the law.
http://www.turkishconsulate.org.uk/en/visa.asp?PageID=2#2
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quote:
Originally posted by Cavfan
is this a way to get people to pay for residency rather than via this route? Is this considered to be a back door route anyway?
If Turks were granted a 90 day visa to visit the UK as a tourist, and were living permanently by nipping over to France on a day trip every 3 months, there would be an enormous outcry in the UK. This is effectively what the Meis/Rhodes hop is.
This is not just a back door route, it is a total abuse of a system devised for holidaymakers. People living in Turkey on a permanent basis are residents, not tourists and as such should not be obtaining tourist visas for any reason.
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A residency is £1 per day
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All well and good you saying that from the UK S but at 4400lira per person for a 5year residency, and going up every year, some people are left with no option but to go to Meis.
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posted by Yogababe http://{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}36560
Now locked to keep everything together.
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I'm just back from Meis for my regular Visa renewal and the news isnt good. This was to be my last trip - with effect from 14 July 2010 new regulations state that you can only stay in Turkey for 90 of 180 days. That means once you have stayed 90 days you must leave and be away from Turkey for 90 days before being allowed back in! The alternative is to purchase the Residency - which has greatly increased in price! We were advised by Meis Express to campaign against this and email the following to the Minister in the Turkish Government besir.atalay@icisleri.gov.tr with the following
Sayin Bakan
Yeni uygulamaya ba�lanan vize rejimi biz T�rkiye'de ya�amakta olan y�z binlerce yabanciyi dogrudan etkilemektedir. Bir �ogumuzun T�rkiye'de evleri var bir diger �ogunlugumuzun ise uzun vade kiralanmis konutlari s�z konusudur.
Bundan ba�ka T�rkiye'ye yilda 3-4 hatta daha fazla sayida giri� �iki�lar yapan �lkelerimiz insanlari bulunmaktadir.
Herhangi bir uyari yapilmadan aniden ba�latilan bu uygulamayi protesto ediyor ve derhal kaldirilmasini talep ediyoruz.
Saygilarimla
Date
Name
Address & Email
Which translates to
New visa regulations are affecing hundreds of thousands of local foreigners who own houses or hold long term rental agreements in Turkey. This also affects those wishing to come to Turkey 3-4 times a year. We protest that these changes were without warning. Please cancel this decision.
If you are affected or know anybody that is affected please send this email.
Thanks
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you mean all very well me saying that from my home in Turkey surely??
I am not disputing the fact that it goes up and up just putting it in perspective,
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Thanks for your thread Diverbaz, I didnt know it was illegal to live here permantly with a tourist visa. As I do live here full time I wish to stay within in the law. I suppose I was in "sheep mode" and followed the crowd over to Meis. How come no one has never been arrested, as far as I know people have been doing it for years.
I understand that if in the UK foreigners were popping over to France it would be the same but they have no need to do this as their residencys are affordable!
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It is a loophole that was ignored for years and one that provided income and business for the ferries and boats offering the service. As foreigners using the loophole went up, the amount of money the Government has went down and I guess they decided they could use the money more than a few dozen boat owners - hence this being a way to take the money through forcing resident foreigners to obtain residency through residency permits.
The point about foreign nationals nipping over from the UK to France isn't about whether residency in the UK is affordable or not - the point is that people allowed into the UK for a holiday, finding a way to stay permanently by leaving for a few hours every three months would go down very badly with the British. A tourist/holiday visa is just that - it isn't a visa to live permanently in 3 month chunks by daisy chaining tourist visas.
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Look at it another way its approximately 400 pound per year, per person, you have not got to spend in a bar or restaurant, so at the end of the day what goes round comes round. stay happy live long. (sounds a bit like spok)
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£400 a year from the saving of £1,500+, the amount you are saving by not having to pay Council Tax in the UK. Even after paying your Turkish equivalent council tax You're still up £1000 on the deal!
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Do not really want to go down that road, but the ct is per household ie 10 people under one roof (a bit cheeky but you never know) amounts to the same 1500+? also this pays for the fire,police,schools,refuge,etc.etc.the 400pound is per person so a family of say 4 cost 1600 pound. and all you get is a blue book, that you also pay for i am led to believe :))
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The council tax is not per household in Turkey, it is per property owner or named part owner ;)
The average occupancy of foreign owned Turkish property is in the main 1 or 2 persons. Occasionally more but not often. If we take the average as 2, the residency cost is £400 x2 (£800) plus £170 odd for Turkish council tax (£970) which is substantially less than the council tax for the same couple in the UK which is averaging out around £1650. £600 less and the sun comes free 8)
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http://kalkan.turkishlocalnews.com/portal/kalkan-news/85964-new-turkish-visa-regulations-from-july-2010
.....just a little more info
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Keith, i mean the CT in the UK, its irrelevant anyway, most do not pay it, there all on benefits. ;):D
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quote:
Originally posted by BM06
Keith, i mean the TC in the UK, its irrelevant anyway, most do not pay it, there all on benefits. ;):D
What is TC in the UK?
David
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It is Tax (Council) :D
Or Thomas Cook
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You know that i know that you know that i know what you and i know what i mean ;) ( sounds a bit like the bay city rollers):D i know its cheeting but that edddddditing good init ;)
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Pretty annoyed reading this. We went to Meis on Wed 14th July to renew visas and were not told anything about the new law.
When we initially went to book with Carole and Tayfun, as always, they told us they didn't do it anymore as they could not compete with the 80TL offered by Meis Express. Ha ha. They knew!!
Obviously we booked with Meis Express. At no point did they tell us this was the grand finale...just took our money and said see you next time.
Yeah I know all the arguments about not having it so good etc. etc. blah blah blah.
We did have residency when we first came here cos we took our furniture from the UK and all that.
Residency did not really benefit us in any other way therefore when it ran out we went for the 3 month visa trip as it cost less.
We live here, we spend our money here, we love the life here, do not give a toss that we have saved X amount in council tax from living in the UK. That was not our reason for moving.
We came here for a better quality of life. Maybe we were naive to think that visa runs were the way to go. However it seems to us that money is what it is all about.
Can we afford to live here anymore with the extortionate residence permits, who knows??? Maybe the animal rescue centre is going to be inundated:((
At least Turks are allowed to work in the UK.
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The point about foreign nationals nipping over from the UK to France isn't about whether residency in the UK is affordable or not - the point is that people allowed into the UK for a holiday, finding a way to stay permanently by leaving for a few hours every three months would go down very badly with the British. A tourist/holiday visa is just that - it isn't a visa to live permanently in 3 month chunks by daisy chaining tourist visas.
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From what I remember, and according to the UK newspapers, an awful lot of people just turn up in the UK and get all the help they could wish for...in fact I saw it myself on my return from a holiday in Croatia. "I want to talk to social services" she kept repeating!!...and she got it.
Phil used to be a contractor for Hillingdon council and heard/saw many things he hated especially with regards to the elderly.
We are not money grabbers just cos we do the 3 month visa.
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quote:
Originally posted by janmack
The point about foreign nationals nipping over from the UK to France isn't about whether residency in the UK is affordable or not - the point is that people allowed into the UK for a holiday, finding a way to stay permanently by leaving for a few hours every three months would go down very badly with the British. A tourist/holiday visa is just that - it isn't a visa to live permanently in 3 month chunks by daisy chaining tourist visas.
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I totally agree What other country in the world would allow people to live there without the correct visa? If you want to live as a resident here You have to have a residency visa, Im surprised Turkey has let this go on so long
ps I have to renew mine next month Its doubled from last time I renewed But I need so have to pay :(
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The UK Julesp.
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Not necessarily are they allowed to work in the UK. I agree with you - I think working should be possible at least as I firmly believe there is great benefit to Turkey in allowing non-nationals to generate business. It would take away the obvious jealous tactic when a non-national is generating wealth, the phone call to report them for working illegally. Success helps more than just the owner, the area and taxman also benefit. Not allowing people to work (under regulated conditions) does not protect Turkey or Turkish workers, it does exactly the opposite - it stunts growth and strangles opportunity.
All that said, this action is to stop the use of tourist visas by full time residents. I think that is the correct thing to do. As I have said previously, I do not agree with the cost of residency permits for Brits in Turkey. I became sick of hearing expats telling anyone who will listen about how much they "support the local economy" by buying Efes and bread; like they were the saviours of Turkey. I do however think it would be unwise to overcharge Brits for residency as they do spend and boost the local economy in many ways.
It is important to know who is resident in Turkey from abroad and the residency permit is necessary for that reason. Perhaps a no fee residency permit is the sensible way forward.
My comments, by the way, about cheaper council tax than the UK were not made to imply that cheaper council tax was a reason to live in Turkey. The point I was making was that although residency is an unwelcome cost, people can often lose sight of the overall tax/expenditure comparison.
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quote:
Originally posted by janmack
We are not money grabbers just cos we do the 3 month visa.
Jan I agree with you, the point is:
Tourist visa - for tourists
Residency permit - for residents
It's not about money grabbing, it's about using a system in a way for which it is not intended. Reductions in residency permit costs will help all - if non-nationals start to pack up and leave in large numbers you only have to imagine how that will affect Calis, and Calis is just one tiny area that will feel it, there will be hundreds and hundreds of businesses in dozens and dozens of resorts that will be hurting.
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quote:
Originally posted by janmack
The UK Julesp.
I dont agree that the Uk allows tourists to live and work with a tourist visa. Uk border agency is one of the toughtest in the world. The immigrants working there are either from EEC or illegal. If illegal and found out they are the same as here and will be kicked out
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Sometimes I feel in these discussions we are all tarred with the same brush and I know there are many, many folk here who just get on with their lives...on their 3 month visa!!
In Chalk Farm and surrounding areas, where Phil grew up, there is a huge Turkish community. We always had the pleasure of eating their food and enjoying their company and they always said "Go to Turkey". We did, we loved it, we ended up moving to Turkey.
Just get very annoyed with the irregularities when you actually live here.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Originally posted by janmack
We are not money grabbers just cos we do the 3 month visa.
Jan I agree with you, the point is:
Tourist visa - for tourists
Residency permit - for residents
Yes I agree in theory. However having had residency we did not find any benefit from it compared to folk who came out and renewed their visas every 90 days. They still got their phone lines, scooters etc We worked out it was actually cheaper for us to do the same. Obviously we will now have to pay for residency as we have all our pets and cannot leave them for 1 day never mind 90!! We only hope that this time they will use the new "tanned pics" of us...they didn't the last time we renewed. lol.
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quote:
Originally posted by Julesp
quote:
Originally posted by janmack
The UK Julesp.
Uk border agency is one of the toughtest in the world.
Are you sure about this???
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One could always take citizenship in Turkey, especially if staying a long time. No problems then. Anyway most countries only issue 30 day visas to tourists,so 90 days is very good.
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I note that busybee was told by authorities at Kas that the last 3 month visa renewal using the old system will be 10th October, so although new regs were introduced on 16th July does that mean, i can leave the country after my 90 days are up in September 2010 and return with a 90 day visa, one more time?
Advice appreciated.
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I might be being a bit thick here, but if you buy a visa that lasts 90 out of 180 days, and you leave the country after 90 days, no you can't come back in on that visa, but can you not just buy another one and start again?
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Only one visa issued until 180 days expired.All on computer on entry,so I would imagine you are sent back.Apart from that the old visa in your passport would indicate you are inside the 180 days still by the date.Well thats my take on it LOL
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quote:
Originally posted by dalyansam
I note that busybee was told by authorities at Kas that the last 3 month visa renewal using the old system will be 10th October, so although new regs were introduced on 16th July does that mean, i can leave the country after my 90 days are up in September 2010 and return with a 90 day visa, one more time?
Advice appreciated.
Thats a good point - my visa expires around mid-September and would welcome clarification before then if possible..
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Well this will stop all the bloody know it alls who prop the bars up ,this will never happen they cant do this they cant do that well they have so get on with it and wind your necks in . ;):D
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Well said Lance! All the cocky "residency is for people who simply don't understand the system" types. The same people who think expats who drink Miller haven't got a bloody clue.
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How much is a 12 month residence permit now? I did a search but couldn't find costs. We already have the books so would guess we don't have to get new ones. Also do we have to go to Mugla in person?
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For those facing the need for residency...
A useful topic on the subject of applying for residency can be found here: {A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}28200&whichpage=1
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I agree with what the Turkish authorities are bringing into force as why should I pay nearly £400.00 per year to live here as a resident but staying on a tourist visa only costs £40.00 per year. They are not making difficult for anyone to stay here permanently , they just want you to be a resident or a tourist. Choice is yours entirely. 8)
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Just wonder how long the powers that be here have been planning this.Looking at the rises over the past years,it is just this year they have doubled it.So pleased we got our residency at the end of 2007,at least time to save up for the next one.
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http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/turkey?ta=entryRequirements&pg=4 This is the latest update dated today 17/7/2010, before we start to get a bit paranoid nowhere does it say on ANY official site you are not allowed to re enter Turkey after a 90 day block period,i feel sure it would have been mentioned and confirmed on the uk embassy site or the Turkish tourist site which are both updated daily, it could be that the 90 in any 180 day period is an extension for multi trip UK tourist as it seems that only the sterling stamp has been changed? so a positive rather than a negative, but on a down side as it was pointed out yesterday, its against the law to reside in Turkey permanently without a residency.
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I am a bit lost on this-what happens if at the end of the 180 day period you still havent used up your 90 days? Do you have to get the new visa on exactly day 180 or could you leave and come back before that as long as you hadnt exceeded your 90 days in 180?
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If at the end of the 180 days you hadn't used up the 90, the visa expires as it would if you had used your full 90 days. If you left and came back before the end of the 180 days and hadn't used up the 90 days, you could use the visa up till it's expiry on 180 days or until you get to the 90th day. If you stayed beyond the 90 days in 180 days, or were still in Turkey after the 180th day, you would face penalties when you went to leave (at the airport/ferry etc).
Now the question might be, if you were in Turkey when the 180 days ran out and you had used (for example) 45 days so were well within the limit, could you take a day trip to Rhodes to get a new visa on your return and the answer must be yes?
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Just called Selo to get clarification and if you have done a visa run from 14th July that will be the last time you can do one. If you did it before as we did on the 7th July we can do one more before the new rules apply.
He was obviously concerned as it will mean the end of his business.
What I find worrying is if you have a holiday home here and are coming out for 2 months and then back to Uk for 1 month, four times a year, it will considerably reduce the amount of time you can holiday here. To overcome this you have to get a residence permit even though you are just holidaying here not residing.
This all might have something to do with recently held talks by the UK government with Turkey and the UK governments new stance on non EU immigration.
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Yes but you cold only stay for 90 days in the next 180 from the entry date and the cycle would start over again.
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Thanks for your reply Keith
I, not for the first time am still confused!
I am just wondering if I have plenty of days left (ie only used say 70) but am comming up to the 180 day date, do I have to go get a new visa on exactly day 180, or could I get a new one some time before as I still have plenty of my 90 left
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Well I don't know and it's a difficult situation that is potentially ahead. We can assume that you can't get a second 90/180 visa inside the 180 days as this would mean permanent residents using the tourist visa would be able to leave on day 90 and get a new one on return, which is pretty much the situation as is in existence now. It was confirmed (somewhere) that you can't get a new visa until the whole 180 days of the old one are up.
So here's the problem. The visa I scanned was issued on July 5th. 180 days takes it to early January (lets say Jan 3rd, I'm not working it out :D ) Ok so I had my holiday in July and now decide a fortnight from Christmas Eve in Calis would be superb. I can't do it though - can I? To me it is impossible...
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Unless of course you could renew it without leaving the country.
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I can't see how this is going to work for the average holidaymaker never mind us lot with a holiday home. What about Joe Bloggs who visits twice or three times per year but stays in a hotel? The hoteliers will lose out on the custom and Joe Bloggs will head of somewhere else to spend his hard earned dosh. Lose, lose situation for Turkey if you ask me.
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with the proposed visa situation....imagine how long it will take to get through passport controll....every visa stamp will have to be checked, the number of visits with in the 90/180 days...all dates to be added up( number of days all ready used )...this weill cause major problems at the likes of Dalaman airport :o :o
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quote:
Originally posted by Firo
Just called Selo to get clarification and if you have done a visa run from 14th July that will be the last time you can do one. If you did it before as we did on the 7th July we can do one more before the new rules apply.
He was obviously concerned as it will mean the end of his business.
What I find worrying is if you have a holiday home here and are coming out for 2 months and then back to Uk for 1 month, four times a year, it will considerably reduce the amount of time you can holiday here. To overcome this you have to get a residence permit even though you are just holidaying here not residing.
This all might have something to do with recently held talks by the UK government with Turkey and the UK governments new stance on non EU immigration.
My wife returned to Turkey on 11th July. Her new visa is 90/180 days. Surely this means that she cannot do a visa run in October and will have to apply for residency? or do the new rules apply only after 10th October?.....Where is Starman when you need him?
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As stated earlier Brian, it's computerised.
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quote:
Originally posted by scouser2
Where is Starman when you need him?
Would that be the same Starman that confirmed it was not true? {A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}36097
:D
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Yes. I thought he was the man in the know!! Maybe he has some further info that we would all find useful.
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What, like he could confirm that it is true? :D
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
Thanks for your reply Keith
I, not for the first time am still confused!
I am just wondering if I have plenty of days left (ie only used say 70) but am comming up to the 180 day date, do I have to go get a new visa on exactly day 180, or could I get a new one some time before as I still have plenty of my 90 left
You would have 20 days left so you couls I recon come on the 160th day for 20 days then sod off on the 181 day from the first date of entry to say meis of rhodes then return with another 90 day visa that would be good through the next 180.
But remember it's Turkey!!!
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But if the only flight I can get into Dalaman is on the 24th, I can't come on the 160th day, that's the point!
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Having spoken to quite a few folk today it sounds a nightmare for those who have bought properties here (indeed, were encouraged to buy). They always enjoyed a 4-8 month stay in the summer and returned to the UK for winter.
I cannot understand the logic in 90 days in, 90 days out, but then again Turkish logic has always been complicated as there is no logic!
We personally accept that we have to get residence permits again as we live here all the time.
Just wish there were more benefits to be had from having a permit, particularly the right to work in Turkey.
My main concern now is for friends who have properties here but live in the UK...where do they stand?
Also family coming to visit us more than once a year...where do they stand?
Phil drummed into me today we can only think positively and be happy for the visa runs and money saved at the time to spend on things we enjoy...propping up the local bars apparently. lol.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
What, like he could confirm that it is true? :D
Yes and we would all believe him ;)
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We came out on 11th May, returned 3 July =52 days.
So we were intending to return Mid September for 60days or 2 months, that means we can't as it is using more than our 38 days remaining out of 180 days, WHAT A BALLS UP!!!
Do you get the feeling we are not welcome?[:(!]
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As Diverbaz said, there must be a way to renew an expiring visa in resort or by returning to point of entry. Otherwise the maths are going to be mind blowing.
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quote:
Originally posted by loz
We came out on 11th May, returned 3 July =52 days.
So we were intending to return Mid September for 60days or 2 months, that means we can't as it is using more than our 38 days remaining out of 180 days, WHAT A BALLS UP!!!
Do you get the feeling we are not welcome?[:(!]
Yeah...kind of!!
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If and I presume it is computerised to work out your stay etc at the border then surely they could place some other type of restriction on the people who are abusing the system. If you have 1 entry & exit stamp per visa that lasts about 90 days and the prvious one was the same and the one before that then they could maybe fine you the value of residencey as obviously you are not just holidaying.
I also think that if residency was priced a lot more competitively then people would be more inclined to follow the correct system.
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"We came out on 11th May, returned 3 July =52 days.
So we were intending to return Mid September for 60days or 2 months, that means we can't as it is using more than our 38 days remaining out of 180 days, WHAT A BALLS UP!!!
Do you get the feeling we are not welcome?"
Your first 180 day period finishes on 6th November, so after this date you should be able to apply for another 90 day visa. As you have used 52 days already if you delay your visit until the end of September, your remaining 38 days should take you up to when you could leave Turkey e.g Kas to Meis, to get your 2nd 90 days worth...clear as mud or what! check this out - it might work!
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quote:
Originally posted by dalyansam
you could leave Turkey e.g Kas to Meis, to get your 2nd 90 days worth...clear as mud or what! check this out - it might work!
Thats the whole point, the Visa run has finished 10th October (just leaving the Country is now not an option), if it was possible to to do the visa run you still had to have no less than 65 days left to qualify, therefore, if we come out on 15th September (wanted sooner rather than later) we can stay until 23rd October on our 38 days remaining out of 180.
Now assume that when we enter Turkey for example 15th September, totally unaware of this 90/180 day rule we would in our ignorance believe we could stay until 14th December, we get to the airport on 14th December to leave and are then faced with a fine for overstaying our 38days out of 180.
Now isn't that as clear as mud!
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We need to bring all the topics on visa renewal and 90/180 day visas together as it is making it difficult to find which of the 50 current ones had the post people want to refind. So moving on with:
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}36084
Ta!