Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: bazz1 on August 02, 2010, 16:13:51 PM
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Hi all just returned from calis wife and two children what a lovely place
We booked five excursions with carol a tayfun ,,12 island midnight cruse mud bathe Turkish bathes and horse riding with regards to horse riding with dumanlar total lack of safety we were not asked if we had ever rode before my son was given a horse that was not friendly and after ten minutes up a steep hill tried to turn round fell and nearly crushed him only then they changed the horse they take a path that is not safe for novice riders we did not feel safe on this trip and when we returned we complained to the company and asked for a refund which fell on deaf ears shame on you carol a tayfun
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another first poster who as yet hasn't introduced himself? not been on any of c and t boat trips myself but then again never heard of any complaints before
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I have been on quite a few riding trips in Turkey and the safety precautions are not good. The Kaya Valley Perma ranch was about the safest.I would not advise anyone to go riding in Turkey even though I have risked it myself.
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what is it with holiday makers!
They come to a mountainous region, and expect flat plains
Their children have never ridden before, and yet do not insist with the stables that they are lead by rein on a sensible pony or their child will not get on.
Why wait to for the staff to ask details,
surely if you have children, you would insist that the stable staff know all of your families lack of experience.
Lack of standards are immediately apparent.
So why ride first!
If you have any complaint, I suggest you tell the stable owners.
Personally, I Pity the poor horses, who in the scorching heat, have to continuously ferry complete novices of all sizes, up and down the difficult path, all for someones 30 minutes of fun.
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My heart goes out to the poor creature who fell and received only blame from you.
You had a choice whether to go ahead with the ride... the pony didnt!
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Do horses that carry people who aren't novices have some immunity to the heat then?
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quote:
Originally posted by Judith
Their children have never ridden before, and yet do not insist with the stables that they are lead by rein on a sensible pony
Also, if my children had never ridden before I would expect the stables to be telling me that! They are supposed to be the experts, not me...I would expect them to be the ones insisting on such matters of child safety.
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We booked our trips with Carole Tayfun and were really happy with the service. I was apprehensive about the jeep safari after reading about how unsafe some are, however they use Kaycan which I learnt from this forum and now from experience are very good. We also went riding. I am able to ride and did not take my kids. I didnt realise how long the ride would be, 3 hrs. They didnt ask me if I could ride, so I told them and they put me on a horse that I could have a canter on.I also asked for a hat, although many people didnt have one on. Ive been riding in a few countries and find it to be the same where ever you go. It is a shame on the horses, but I guess this is what they are used to, I felt sorry for the dog who walked for 3 hrs and then buried himself in soil to cool down, no one gave him any water!
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My daughter is experienced with horses and had just had to part with her own horse, however, even with her experience she would not chance riding when on holiday.
Standards are not the same as the U.K. and also quite often the horses are not looked after properly. If we worry about the Dolphins, perhaps we should worry about these poor horses out in seering heat for hours every day.
The only thing I know about Carole & Tayfun is they parked their van so close to our car in Fethiye last June that my husband had to get into the drivers seat from the passenger side. The negotiation of the gear stick was not without worry. I learned words I never knew that day.
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Firstly Judith when we booked the horse trip the advert showed a beach path
Secondly my kids are both 16yrs and not under 10yrs and regularly ride in the uk
When we arrived we were not happy with the setup from the start but like the other members s quote (things done different in turkey)
We did question things regards to the condition of one horse
But this was ignored
When my sons horse nearly fell down the embankment this was due to the horse being pulled by one stable hand
And for you information this could have been avoided
Yes I do agree with you as to the way the horse are treated and we were not happy and complained to the tour operator
Also we did not finish the trip
Also by the way I do know that turkey has mountains and some very nice people
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What is it with holiday makers,!!!!!
I think they are entitled to some degree of safety, and maybe this post has served as a warning for others who are thinking of horse riding.and maybe the horses in question will have a few days off, fair comment.
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Exactly - what is it with tourists who rely on the people offering a service in a foreign land to give advice on how things are done in said foreign land! It is a total outrage to claim that parents should "insist with the stables that they are lead by rein on a sensible pony or their child will not get on".
That is a total dereliction of any duty of care on the part of the stables and is shameful. The stables themselves should seek at least an idea of the experience of the customer who's family are handing over hard cash. In cases where the children have little or no experience, the stables should "insist that they are lead by rein on a sensible pony or their child will not be allowed to get on".
Maybe if those offering tours, trips and experiences took responsibility for finding out what their paying customers are capable of before taking there cash, the 9 year old girl who was killed while white water rafting may still be alive.
Judith your post is aggressive, entirely wrong and totally repugnant.
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To be honest.. there are not alot of horse riding excursions that I, personally, would pay to go on here in Turkey. I have been brought up with horses, owned, and bred my own in the UK. There are very few places that I would recommend in this area because of that. But saying that, there are some extremely good stables around. Needless to say they are not in the Hisaronu area! If you go to Kaya koy, Yaniklar, Ortaca etc then you will find a reputable stable to book an excursion from. Unfortunately the majority of excursion sellers in this area do not consider the welfare of the animals involved, only their commission!
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quote "When we arrived we were not happy with the setup from the start" unquote
2nd quote "We did question things regards to the condition of one horse" unquote
If that is the case, the warning signs were evident, and the activity involved your children, then simply dont take part and ask for your money back there and then.
If more people did the sensible thing, then the stables would have to improve safety and conditions for horses and riders.
I wouldnt get into a ramshackle boat with my children and go to sea, and even though I have kept horses all of my life, I wouldnt dream of taking any risks if I had concerns, especially with my children.
I also wouldnt wait for someone to ask me about our riding capabilities, I would be telling them
Yes, the stable staff should enquire.
Yes the horses should be in good condition and fit,
but like most things that involve money and animals, customer safety and animal welfare is less important than profit.
If as parents you have any doubts or concerns about any activity set up, give your reasons, ask for a refund and walk away.
Better safe than sorry.
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That's what CBF is all about Judith - independent, personal opinions like yours. Oh, except the subject is Carole & Tayfun and you appear to have forgotten in both posts to mention that you are anything but independent to the Carole & Tayfun company! Did that slip your mind??!!
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Scunner, on a different topic, you describe the flow of tourists who enter an activity inspite of the evidence that it is not safe as, quote" still morons come" which I personally find repugnant
When I said, "what is it with hoilday makers" it is because
it does seem the case, that some people on holiday ignore the common sense warnings which they would listen to at home.
For example, paragliding with an infant attached!Unthinkable in the UK.
In this case from the parents post,
Quote 1. "When we arrived we were not happy with the setup from the start"
Quote 2. "We did question things regards to the condition of one horse"
Quote 3."we were not asked if we had ever rode before"
Quote 4" my son was given a horse that was not friendly"
What I am attempting to say is, if your immediate reaction to an activity and activity centre, is one of concern, which it was in this case, then do not put your children at risk, its just not worth it.
And if you are concened about the state of the animals, then dont ride them.
As parents we have to weigh up the risks and not rely on people we do not know.
And I might add that it is very well known that I am totally against riding stables full stop, having rescued many exhausted and wrecked horses over the years from such establishments.
And on a personal note, I would not want to ride in scorching hot weather, for hours up and down craggy mountain paths or sandy beaches, because it simply is not fair on the horses!
But for those who want to take part, which is their choice, though not the horses, common sense and parental responsibility must prevail.
If you have concerns about any safety aspects or conditions for horses or riders,
then make your case, ask for a refund from the centre, and walk away
That way you will be sending a clear message to the proprietors and have peace of mind.
Also I might add that I have no influence in Carole and Tayfuns buisiness, mores the pity
Though I am sure they will now be looking into the standards at the stables in question, for the animals as well as the clients.
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quote:
Originally posted by Judith
Scunner, on a different topic, you describe the flow of tourists who enter an activity inspite of the evidence that it is not safe as, quote" still morons come" which I personally find repugnant
What on Earth are you talking about? Yes I wrote that! Dolphins crapping into the bottom of a condemned pool and STILL MORONS COME to pay to swim in it. You find my view repugnant?? Why??? It's 100% true. What is it about humans paying to swim in a **** filled pool with two stolen and stressed out dolphins that you don't find moronic?
Is there ANYONE on CBF that feel that comment is repugnant? They are morons!
I don't know anything about horse riding but I do know about running a business and there is no point in you posting (hiding your true relationship with the company being discussed) that it is the responsibility of the customer to ensure their safety. It is not.
I note from your last post that you "have no influence in Carole and Tayfuns buisiness". From reading your posts in this topic, I think they'll be extremely grateful for that.
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Still does not retract from the fact that the "HOLIDAYMAKER", is entitled to expect a degree of safety,and that the people conducting these activities should, being human, ensure this is the case,
You refer to the "HOLIDAYER", as people who are thick, because they dont have the benefit of knowing the ins and outs of everything around them when on holiday, people put their trust in others when on holiday,especially on trips, excursions etc,and your quotes 1 2 3 & 4, are only confirming the concerns of the original poster, I think it is yourself who needs to get off your( high horse, ) pedestal. not all parents are innadequate.
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Yes holidaymakers should expect a degree of safety -- but it doesn't always happen does it? My view is if you have any doubt at all about the safety measures on a trip then walk away and ask for your money back.
How many accidents/loss of life etc do we have to have before some people start to engage their brains on holiday? Over the last few years we have seen many examples of families taking risks with their own lives and the lives of their children whilst on holiday (and not just in Turkey by any means). My motto is if I wouldn't do it in the UK then I certainly don't want to do it in a foreign country.
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A man plummeted to his death in Alanya because of a worn/faulty harness. If I chose to do that activity with a tandem instructor (I wouldn't) I would have little idea on what to look for to check if a harness was old, worn or faulty. To me they would probably all look a bit old or bit worn but maybe perfectly usable. Is this suddenly my problem?
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Well you should check really shouldn't you? However we put our trust in others on holiday and I'm not sure that's a good thing. I'll stick with my motto and keep away from the high risk stuff. Too old now anyway ;-)
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Well yes me too, I won't be doing any risky excursions [:o]
My point is that many people have to put their faith in the provider, because they are trying something new. That's the problem with new things, we don't know much about them or what to look for, and need the provider to take his responsibility seriously.
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We did the tree top wire thingy in Thailand (twice) and the safety measures in place we excellent. All the harnesses were in tip top condition and we have to wear correctly fitting hard hats and were hooked onto a safety wire at all times. OK it's only like 60ft up in the air and you have got trees to break your fall - so I guess it's not really high risk is it?
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Could kill a child if the safety isn't in place - so I guess it is high risk in the wrong hands.
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Yes it is - but only if risks or shortcuts are taken.
Would do it again tomorrow as well :)
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Scunner, what are YOU talking about?
The similarity is that these people, although they sensed from the outset, and had evidence that this situation was not right regarding safety or animal welfare, still went ahead.
This is what I find so difficult to understand too.
They should have made their views clear, demanded a refund from the venue and walked away in disgust.Even reported their concerns to relevant authorities.
Why, if you have any doubts, go through with the activity, and put yourself or children at risk.
As previously said by my post, Yes the activity venues have great responsibilties to protect and care for you and the animals. This matter should be taken seriously.
But this family realised from the start that this was not the case.
The reason it is a shame that I do not have any influence in descision making in the tourism buisiness sector here, is because, I would stop, at once, every activity that abuses animals for profit, in the name of entertainment.
But as you know Scunner, I am trying my best.
The animals have no voice in these matters.
If tourists did the sensible thing and walked out, instead of taking part in any activity where they have doubts about animal welfare, or safety issues, we might be able to make a difference.
surely you cannot argue with that!
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I'm sorry, my question was why do you find my comment repugnant. People who enter a pool that is full of dolphin sh** are morons. Can you once and for all indicate where you feel my comment was repugnant.
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this is excellent material for an up coming column on resposible or should that be irresposible tourism
thanks guys ;) :D
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Responsibility does not land at the tourists feet to ask for their money back if they are not happy with the product they have been sold,
The responsibilty lies with the agents/tour operators to make sure what they are selling is the real thing, ie decent safety equipment, competent trained staffing at all levels and animal welfare are all paramount.
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
Responsibility does not land at the tourists feet to ask for their money back if they are not happy with the product they have been sold,
The responsibilty lies with the agents/tour operators to make sure what they are selling is the real thing, ie decent safety equipment, competent trained staffing at all levels and animal welfare are all paramount.
Maybe so Tinx - but if the safety equipment is not up to standard then the responsibility lies with the holidaymaker to make a judgment based on what they see.
IMO it's also the holidaymakers responsibility to make sure they do not put their loved ones at risk by booking trips that are clearly unsuitable.
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if the safety equipment is not up to standard then the agents shouldn't be selling the tickets!
if you hire a car to someone with faulty brakes, when do they find out its not safe?
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The tour operators should check that all of the activities are safe and respect the welfare of animals, this is without doubt.
The venues should also provide an activity which is not only extremely safe for the tourists, but one which also meets the highest criterea for animal welfare.
But you have to admit that if the person taking part, has ANY immediate concerns, then surely commonsence will tell them NOT to take part.
Sorry but I can provide no answers for people knowingly proceeding with an activity when it is blatently obvious that there are serious concerns.
If the concerns were not immediate on arrival then I could better understand it.
But this family by their own hand have said they realised things were wrong from the outset.
This is when you would expect parents to get their children out of there quick. And this is the nub of my arguement,because they didnt do this.
Incidently Scunner,I personally try not to resort to offensive language, it was how I was brought up.
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I'm sorry, my question was why do you find my comment repugnant. Can you once and for all indicate where you feel my comment was repugnant.
Here is my view that you found "repugnant", please stop sidestepping the question I am asking you:
quote:
Originally posted by Judith
quote "still morons come" which I personally find repugnant
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Some words are nowadays deemed offensive and "moron" is one of them,
I do not understand why people continue with an activity when they know its blatently obvious that it is not safe to continue or the welfare of animals has been compromised.
They must have their reasons, which I fail to see.
Common sense would prevent me from allowing my children to take part if I thought "at the outset" that it was not right.
Compassion for the animals would prevent me from supporting such activities in the first place.
Perhaps someone would like to take up the issue of reponsible tourism here and campaign for strict guidelines in all tourist activities.
This would prevent families from
a) having to take any responsibility whatsoever
b)prevent the exploitation of animals for profit
c)give re assurance that the activity meets the highest standards for health and safety
d)ensure continuous checking to see that it meets those standards with penalties imposed for those activities that do not conform.
I still maintain that until that day comes here,
if you prepay for a meal, go into the restaurant AND SEE a dirty kitchen and have doubts, then DONT EAT THERE! get your children out, demand the restaurant repays, and report to the authorities.
If you have an operation booked, go to the hospital and find rusty knives get out quick, dont go through with it.
If you visit a stables and your immediate reaction is one of great concern for safety and you have such concerns, immediately, for the health of the animals, then DONT take part.
In each example, you have to act on your own initative and not be led by the hand by those at the activity, and then complain afterwards, surely.
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Aha, I used the word "moron"! How repugnant of me. I must think of another word for people that pay to swim in dolphin excrement.
Normally people have to pay to advertise on CBF, but I can't think how much Carole & Tayfun should pay for this - you've hardly shown them in a good light over 4 pages!!! I particularly liked "Lack of standards are immediately apparent. So why ride first!" bearing in mind you are (shall we say) 'close' to Tayfun. The horse riding you refer to was booked with his company! I'm sure he doesn't know what to make of you 'Judith', I haven't a clue either.
Sorry if the word 'moron' offended you. I must try not to be so offensive. After all, I am aware that adults visit this forum and we all know how easily offended they can be.
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I'm getting a sense of deja vu reading some of these posts and I get the feeling that the original post has been lost in this.
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Yes TW, the deja vu comes from 'Judith' repeating the same lecture over and over again to explain where the original poster has got it all wrong. I confess to causing some deja vu perhaps by asking more than once for an answer to one question :D
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ooh I missed this one - I'm such a moron.
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you have now, never mind first poster - welcome anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by c1
another first poster who as yet hasn't introduced himself? not been on any of c and t boat trips myself but then again never heard of any complaints before
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ok lets try it this way.
the people by their own admission had concerns about animal welfare and personal safety apparently from the outset.
so... the question I would like to ask is, why carry on with the activity to complain later?
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:(:(:(
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/highlander_010/yawn.jpg)
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(http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/despair2.jpg)
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8) I.B.H.
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(http://www.calisvilla.co.uk/bulkometer.gif)
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quote:
Originally posted by Judith
ok lets try it this way.
the people by their own admission had concerns about animal welfare and personal safety apparently from the outset.
so... the question I would like to ask is, why carry on with the activity to complain later?
Probably because tayfun had a good reputation until you single handedly destroyed it yesterday.
I had booked the horse riding with Tayfun because i trusted the company's reputation but having read your impression of tourists your partner will not be receiving another Lira from me.
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On a lighter side of animal welfare, and not wishing to deviate from the topic., my wife and daughter walked down into Hisaronu last August, (a really hot day)there were 2 camels in the market place waiting to give people rides. "Oh look at those poor camels, they must be really hot", said the wife. "Mum", my daughter replied "They are camels and live in the desert, which is much hotter than here". Needless to say, the wife needs to get out more!
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Is anyone else confused by the Judith / Carol / Tayfun triangle?
Can someone (without any unfounded accusations or character assasinations) explain it so that I might try to make sense of this thread?
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Maybe "Judith" (who's name isn't Judith) can finally come clean on that - rather than taking the whole CBF membership as total suckers by pretending to be totally unattached or uninvolved with anything to do with C&T.
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Rob's post added to my confusion. Are Judith and Carol the same person? Nod once for Yes and twice for No.
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Two nods
;)
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Like SteveJ I am very confused with the coded messages.
What does annoy me about these types of subjects that on reading it you could easily conclude that C&T are totally at fault for the state of the horses and poor safety. Horse riding can be purchased from any of the trip sellers in the area. Thomas Cook and the other big tour companies will also flog these trips at their welcome meetings. I think it is unfair just to specifically pick on one trip seller. It is like saying HP sauce is rubbish and blaming Tesco for it when all the other supermarkets also sell it.
On the other issue of use of the word moron I have to agree with Scunner because that is what they are. Moron has a couple of definitions in a dictionary and I am sure that Scunner meant the definition that referred to a person that did something very stupid and he in no way wanted to cast any dispersions on retarded people.
I am not defending him because he is the moderator as I on one or two occasions had the odd heated debate on subjects.
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That's that theory blown apart but life's too short to start a new game of 20 questions so I'll await Judith's response. :D
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"it all makes much more sense."????
I need to get out more.
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Sorry SteveJ I changed it I think I misunderstood 2 nods.
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveJ
That's that theory blown apart but life's too short to start a new game of 20 questions so I'll await Judith's response. :D
It was you that started the game of 20 questions Steve with "Nod once for Yes and twice for No" - this topic is getting more and more surreal :D
My main point is that 'Judith' tried to pass herself off as Josie Public when attacking the poor guy who was unhappy with the excursion provided by Carole & Tayfun. She is not a stranger by any means to Carole & Tayfun and it is not acceptable to try and pass yourself off as totally unconnected to the people you are defending.
Or do members think people should be allowed to hide their true identity and say anything they like?
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The best part of these posts seemed to have degenerated from Carol And Tayfun and one might say trip quality/or trip safety,or even trip honesty, to a discussion on horse riding safety.Every one has a perspective,but I would like to add.That the trips to meis for visa runs was dominated by C and T until a more competitive company,ie meise express,looked to challenge C and T costs.At a stroke C and T texted everyone within 24 hours of there NEW LOWER competitive price! albeit there new lower price was exactly the same the same as Meis express..Overpriced by them previously!! or taking the P--s before then, you judge.Also recently , with the possible change of rules from visa trips to the necessity of a residency,Their price £75!!!! per person to do a bit of paperwork for residency application,also quickly cancelled after the retraction by the government, to me shows the colour of the animal and opportunistic greed.
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No they should not be allowed to hide their identity. If you have a connection be honest and declare it.
If this Judith has a connection with C and T then not only are the postings aggressive but also hypocritical. How can you on the one hand declare that the treatment of the horses is cruel and then on the other hand support it by selling tickets.
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pot, kettle and black come to mind:D
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as the thread is entitled Carol and tayfun, I will add my tuppence....we had an appalling experience with them last year, which was compounded by total ignorance and rudeness from Tayfun. We, at that stage, promised we would never use them again.
My Mother and friends visited Turkey this year and booked a couple of trips with them (you know what these parents are like, can't tell them a thing !!!) Both trips they booked turned out to be a complete nightmare - a) sold on to another company without notification and led to a total change of timetable without informing my Mum (in her 70s and easily confused !). and b) left three ladies sat on Calis beach for 2.5 hours waiting for a transfer (which had been booked weeks in advanced and paid for at extra premium) because a driver wasn't available. Totally unacceptable in temperatures of excess of 80 degrees, no shade and no refreshments, no contact numbers and no information.
I don't know who 'Judith' is...(or perhaps I do..?) but i would never ever put my family at risk knowingly and would do everything within my power to check safety measurements before booking any activity. But these operators have the ultimate responsibility to ensure that they should be delivering a quality service and guaranteeing saftey as paramount importance.
As for getting on the back of a horse when the temperatures are in excess of 80+, thats damn stupidity....as well as cruelty.
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Ee by gum!
Reading this topic has been better than watching Eastenders!
Had to chuckle at a couple of the ripostes!
I am new to the forum having made one or two contributions but whilst holidaying in Calis I approached C&T to book a trip and felt the service left a lot to be desired, so booked elsewhere. There. That's my tuppence.:D
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I don't whether it's good or bad, but these posts have put ME off booking with them now!
I was looking at their website only days ago, I was going to book some trips before I went, not bothering now.....
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I now wonder why the topic is called carol a tayfun :D
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I have already booked trips with carole and Tayfun at the recommendations of those of this forum and now everyone is saying they are rubbish!!
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There are 7000+ members here, we didn't all recommend them :D
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Am liking the banner!! :D
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I know that :) but now I'm panicking! Hey ho, a holiday is what you make it, if things go wrong so be it, it's still better than being stuck in rainy England
WOuld it be wrong to add that I do agree that it is cruel to ride horses in this heat, I'm not a fan of horses (can't trust an animal with a head that large ....lol) but they aren't camels, they aren't built for it so people shouldn't really be doing it all! It's kind of like people who go to South Africa and pay tour operators big bucks for a tour of townships... do the people in these townships have a choice that tour operators profit from their poverty and way of life.... no! Do the horses....no? Any kind of 'trip' like this makes me cringe :) anyway!
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Carol and Tayfun are as good as any agents and a darn site better than most! No-one has 100% satisfaction level and as far as I can see a handful of people have complaints which means thousands of others like us are perfectly satisfied. I have no connection with C&T.
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I'm lost now, is Judith actually Carole ?or is it a mate,
not that we want to go horse riding,
Kenny just said he does not do horses, their bums are to high. :-\
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REMOVED
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quote:
Originally posted by laffa
I'm lost now, is Judith actually Carole ?or is it a mate,
not that we want to go horse riding,
Kenny just said he does not do horses, their bums are to high. :-\
:D:D:D
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REMOVED
[/quote]
What is this supposed to mean?
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I think I know Nicola and I think it would better if either this gets back on topic or locked.
Just my opinion.
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We were actually thinking of booking a trip or two with this company as well. We decided not to though not because of this topic but because we wanted to choose who to book trips with when we got out there. As far as this topic is concerned had we booked with Carole and Tayfun it would not have concerned us that much that one or two people out of 7000 members were not happy with certain things.They have obviously been operating these trips for quite a time so must be doing something right for people to recommend them.I would just go on the trip and bloody well enjoy it.
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Very good. I've removed your strange post from earlier in this topic. It would be nice if we could have a debate now and again without name calling.
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quote:
Originally posted by laffa
I'm lost now, is Judith actually Carole ?or is it a mate,
not that we want to go horse riding,
Kenny just said he does not do horses, their bums are to high. :-\
No I don't do horses either, nor donkeys not even if they can paraglide. :D:D
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We went with Carole and Tayfun on the 12 Island Boat Trip last year and enjoyed it a lot. The boat was a wee bit busy with people but relatively quieter than other companies that we saw.
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I have always booked my boat trips with Carole and Tayfun and have always been pleased however after what I have read on this thread I shall certainly think very carefully before booking again with them. At the end of the day the responsibility for safety lies with the tour operator after all they are the ones that take the money and they should ensure that the activity conforms to health and safety standards whatever they are in Turkey before taking any bookings. If a customer is not completely satisfied then they should be able to get either a full refund or if that is not possible then offered alternative trip. In any good business customer satisfaction and safety irrespective of the activity should always be paramount.
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I booked all my trips with them and was quite satisfied as I said earlier.
In all honesty, I love riding, particularly on holiday as it is a lot cheaper than at home and a lot more enjoyable. I guess I am rather ignorant to the fact that it is cruel to the horses as I assume this is what they know and are used to. There were a few horses with sores, but over all they seemed well fed and looked after.
I emailed Caroletayfun many times before we left regarding the trips i planned on booking and they were very quick to respond, and very helpful, however when I reported to them how we had a lengthy wait after the riding due to a mix up in taxis, they did not respond, therefore I will not be recommending them or using them again.
Personally i think that Carole tayfun need to be be completely sure of the saftey and satisfaction of thir customers to keep their reputation, as I booked through finding recommendations on here.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Very good. I've removed your strange post from earlier in this topic. It would be nice if we could have a debate now and again without name calling.
I dont have a clue why you removed it.It was just a harmless jokey reply hence the smiley.I think some people must have very smutty minds if they read anything offensive or sexual in that jokey reply.
I'm sorry if some people read it like that as it was not written to offend anyone or be smutty.Hence the :)
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Let me make it easy for you. Judith is a CBF member who has posted in this topic and you posted to say that Judith was one of the horses. Not smutty, just plain rude and childish. I am amazed you "don't have a clue why I removed it" - maybe making comments like that is considered funny where you are from but it isn't on here.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Let me make it easy for you. Judith is a CBF member who has posted in this topic and you posted to say that Judith was one of the horses. Not smutty, just plain rude and childish. I am amazed you "don't have a clue why I removed it" - maybe making comments like that is considered funny where you are from but it isn't on here.
How I love this forum, it makes me chuckle sooo much! :D:D:D
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenny1
quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Let me make it easy for you. Judith is a CBF member who has posted in this topic and you posted to say that Judith was one of the horses. Not smutty, just plain rude and childish. I am amazed you "don't have a clue why I removed it" - maybe making comments like that is considered funny where you are from but it isn't on here.
How I love this forum, it makes me chuckle sooo much! :D:D:D
Yes me to. Pity it does'nt a few others on here who love to to have a joke at someones elses expence.Its never rude or childish then.Whats the saying one rule e.t.c.
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Here we go again...
For your information there is no situation of one rule for some and another for the rest. Nobody on CBF, including me, the moderators, Crabbit, Gary Carr or anyone else has a set of rules that include allowing to call someone who is quite clearly a fellow member a horse. Grow up and take responsibility for your own posts, stop blaming two sets of rules for preventing you getting away with ignorant rudeness - you are not excluded from some sort of privileged club of members who are allowed to call someone a horse.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Here we go again...
For your information there is no situation of one rule for some and another for the rest. Nobody on CBF, including me, the moderators, Crabbit, Gary Carr or anyone else has a set of rules that include allowing to call someone who is quite clearly a fellow member a horse. Grow up and take responsibility for your own posts, stop blaming two sets of rules for preventing you getting away with ignorant rudeness - you are not excluded from some sort of privileged club of members who are allowed to call someone a horse.
How many more timee do I have to say it was a HARMLESS joke that it seems only you took an offence to it.Maybe using the word moron/s is not childish and offensive.But for the last time it was said as a joke hence the smiley. Why not do away with smilies then we will all know its seriously meant.God help us.Im saying no more on the matter.And I'm called childish.
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Several people objected to it, I get the emails, not you. For the record, I didn't call any CBF member a moron, it was a moron who swam with dolphins who appeared on ITV London news.
Dulux, let me tell you something. This topic isn't about you. We now have to try and return to topic. Your childish comment was deleted. Move on. If you don't like the way we run CBF, don't come. Simple. We'll survive without your juvenile jokes.
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Hi,
I have been following this topic for a little bit... mainly whist I have been out in Fethiye with my girlfiend.
Firstly the mandatory forum introduction... Im a 28 yr old IT and Graphics teacher from near the midlands in the UK. I have been coming to Turkey for the last few years (about 5 or 6) in the summer and easter holidays...for a bit of sun in the August, and outdoor activities in the cooler months.
I am an avid walkier, climber, and horse rider, but generally anything outdoorsy or adrenaline fuelled is what I like.
I came across C&T a few years back, myself and my sister headed out to Fethiye for a week to have our annual 'meet up and do' holiday. We tried a few companies, but being a bit of a web geek I came across C&T when trying to book a boat tour.
Over the years i have come back to them and tried (I would reckon) all the activities they have to offer. With exception to the Jeep Safari...water pistols and tours around ruins is a bit strange....
I have always found the staff online, in the offices, on the phone and face to face very helpful. I have often found them having to negotiate issues on activities, and found them reasonable. Their trips have always been good value...for me at least!
What I have also noticed is that for the majority of tourists (and Im thinking particularly the ones who want to swim with dolphins...I have seen the report) is that they tend to leave their common sense at the door of the plane when they land.
On my last trip out I too have seen Horse riding parties (Karakoy...spelling?)out and about ... horses looking thin, heavier people on their backs, stable boys pulling them. What I didnt see were the actual tourists questioning things. They seemed slightly zombiefied... as if its okay.
Reading the comments on here its clear that people have something in to 'Judith', I dont know the history between the banter of all of you on here, I dont know if you guys know each other....
The reason for posting on this topic....
and lets get back to the core of this discussion...not the name calling, not the playground he said she said...or the 'im better than you' definitions of words from the Oxford Dictionary... or even the silly jokes...
The core of this is someone/a family has taken a trip (paid for upfront) found it to be of poor standard on arrival, continued with the event in the hope that it gets better... despite realising that...
"we were not asked if we had ever rode before "
and realising that....
"my son was given a horse that was not friendly"
and ten minutes into the activity (assuming that the timer started when mounting the horse in the stables)
"after ten minutes up a steep hill tried to turn round fell and nearly crushed him"
after this the family, probably (hopefully) aware that things would probably get worse based (upon some kind of common sense) continued...
I can understand the lack of feeling safe. If a large animal like that fell on me (im of geek build) I ..and im guessing 99% of other people on here would agree... would probably have called it a day. If this had happened to my child (I dont have any yet... so Im forecasting my actions)...I would probably have stopped right there, gone to the stables and waited until the bus back.
on returning I would have gone straight to the offices (or the place where I booked the event... could have easily been another operator..as I would guess the majority of them use these places), and asked for my money back.
I dont think i would have gone along with the event...considering my son would probably be a little shocked? or at least shaken...
In short I think you make the whole argument a little bad on yourself if you take part in the activity despite having concerns about safety etc. the complaints procedure would have worked out better I would guess if you had refused to take part.
Ok. now for the company angle...
Tour Operators and Travel Agencies DO have a responsibility for the people that they have as customers. They have to ensure "to the best of their ability' that the activities are safe, comply with local law.... the key here is local law. Especially with local based businesses.
However, there is an element of personal responsibility as well. In a one day Horse trekking adventure day it is unreasonable to assume that you will learn the ins and outs of horse riding (im assuming...) Nor is it reasonable to assume that you should have the correct equipment yourself. Training and equipment should be provided. as there was little mention of this by the first post I can only assume this was given.
Standards ARE bound to be different, but not beyond reasonable common sense. I mimic Stoops comment...
"My view is if you have any doubt at all about the safety measures on a trip then walk away and ask for your money back"
By not walking away (or at least refusing to ride) you have made the complaints proceedure more difficult.
I also think that bad mouthing a company which has obviously provided you with 4 other very good excursions.... as you booked a 12 Island tour (no complaint mentioned), Midnight Cruise (no complaint mentioned), Mud Bath (no complain mentioned)... there must have been something right...
Or... (and this is the 'everyones out to get what they want jack' part of me..) perhaps by doing all these and paying out...£43pp? (From their site...very quickly copied and pasted and added up...)
£9 12 Island
£12 Midnight Cruise
£2 turkish bath (this is free if you book more than 2 activities...)
£10 Horse Riding
£10 Turkish baths
(something like that per person)
Family of 4? I dont know but Im assuming a Mum, Dad, 2 kids...(Dont know if children are cheaper...)
43 x 4 =£172
.... you could have a cheap holiday at the expense of a tour agency?
Im by no way saying THIS WAS THE REASON, but I cant honestly see why you would take part in an activity and THEN complain. I could understand if it was in the LAST ten minutes... but TEN MINUTES INTO the event....why!
Im sure I will have some responses to my rather large rambling post, and I am quite aware of the need for people on here to be harsh and sharp about stuff... Its the way every forum I have ever been on works. Big words, hard statements, name calling, put downs, and attempts at defacing reputable people.
Comments, insults... welcome.
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Hmmm most people just say hi ;)
You wrote reams and managed to avoid the basic cause of the length of this topic. A man gave his appraisal and Judith was very aggressive towards him when she replied - turning the whole thing back on him as if he was the cause of the bad experience. Now in fairness that is all pretty much acceptable in forum life, but not when Judith fails to declare she is closely involved with one of the owners of the tour company being criticised (and that she aggressively defended).
I am not interested in Carole & Tayfun, whether they are reputable or not doesn't have anything to do with the way this topic has been overseen. What is important on the forum is that people with hidden agendas or undeclared interests are not allowed to stay that way.
If you had read the initial response from Judith, the had reread it after it became apparent she was involved with the owners of the tour company, the second read is quite revealing and pretty unsavoury.
Welcome to the forum by the way :)
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A very long and interesting post.You have covered all angles as to why these people did not walk away or make a complaint there and then.
Could it not possible be that not "all" people are the same when it comes to things like this.How many of us have had similar things (not the same as this) happen but tolerated it and said nothing.How many of us have had a crap meal and not complained? I could go on and on (usually do :)).But as I have said not everyone is the same.I for one would coplain about anything but my wife would not as she is timid and would not want to make a fuss.Maybe after the event she might but not at the actual time.
Comments, insults... welcome. :)
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You could have started your latest post "A very long and interesting post, lorddaisy" without quoting the whole thing.
Well, you did ask :)
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Agreed, and edited out.
There is no need to quote entire posts, especially when they are on the same page as your response - the quote facility is there so you can quote the part of a post you are referring to, or to show a post from a much earlier time that you are responding to.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
You could have started your latest post "A very long and interesting post, lorddaisy" without quoting the whole thing.
Well, you did ask :)
Sorry Highlander I did'nt realise the "reply with quote" feature was only there for show.I guess you will now complain to Scunner by email if necessary.[ :)
A more constructed answer to my replty to lorddaisy from you might have been more interesting rather than a winge about quotes Highlander.Only joking like I know you were :)
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For God's sake
GROW UP, you sound like a spoilt child!
I just explained what the reply with quote facility is there for, it is not there "for show".
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I once did a horse riding trip from Ovacick through to Kaya. Not at all happy and me and my son got off and waited in kaya after a horse was being pulled by the stable lads and the girth snapped and the saddle came off and the "moron" on the horse hit the deck with some force, teh horse then bolted into the other horses in front. A car was sent to pick us up from Kaya and we waited at the stables until my husband and daughter returned back. Once all the horses had returned I really noticed the hideous state of the horses - (I hadn't before hand as I was anxious about what lie ahead, my son was also nervous and I was focussing on the fear I had to conquor - I'm not remotely horsey but lets just say I was persuaded). We questioned the stable guy (because my daughter who is animal bonkers was upset about them)who said they were fine and he then asked us not to go up to the horses to get a closer look. They were all covered with what looked like whip marks on the flanks.
My point is we were asked if we had ridden before and we were apparently given appropriate horses, but nothing prepared us for the terrain that lie ahead, hooves slipping on rocks, horses which seemed quite placid (believe me this was the one thing I had observed), becoming very spooked very easily. The whole thing added up to an absolute nightmare from my point of view but if this person had not come off the horse I would probably have carried on - it's a typical reaction I think- not wanting to make a fuss etc - once the opportunity arose for me to make a fuss without it really being my fault, I was on it. I don't think it is unreasonable to continue with a trip even though your senses are telling you something else, and I certainly don't think it unreasonable to give others the heads up about a trip with a well known tour operator in the area, so that they can make an informed decision about trip. We are all different some will kick up a fuss and some won't most importantly we have the right to know of other peoples experiences and this is why we all use this forum as a means to add to our Turkey experience - learn by other peoples mistakes and enjoy some of these great experiences that other on CBF have.
Finally, I was out shopping today and watched a guy blatantly putting stuff into his bag, other people saw, but did nothing, maybe they didn't care, maybe they thought good luck to him, maybe they didn't want to make a fuss. Any way I stopped a member of staff and mentioned this - but said that maybe he was using the bag as a means of getting the items to the till but they may wish to watch him - needless to say he was stopped as he walked out of the door without paying. This was one occasion where I was happy to make a fuss, but others were not.
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This topic is going nowhere and hasn't been for around 7 of the 10 pages at least. Judith won't tell you who she really is, dulux has too many toys and not enough prams. Let's give it up and all agree it was the customer's fault.
Locked, move along folks.