Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum

Information and Services in Turkey Section => Residency in Turkey, Visas, Work Permit Questions => Topic started by: Linda on August 10, 2010, 16:05:23 PM

Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Linda on August 10, 2010, 16:05:23 PM
http://www.fethiyetimes.com/expat-zone/visa/6274-relief-as-visa-rules-changes-shelved.html
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Scunner on August 10, 2010, 16:31:06 PM
As sunnyd correctly points out there has been no shelving of rule changes. You still need residency to live on a permanent basis in Turkey.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: maximumtom on August 10, 2010, 19:08:41 PM
Keith, this isn't a topic that concerns me but might in the future. Do you have a link to a site that gives the actual rules you refer to ?  In the UK, residency rules are not simple and one of the factors is the number of days you are actually in the UK. Thanks, Tom
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Julesp on August 10, 2010, 19:47:11 PM
TOURIST VISA FOR UK PASSPORT HOLDERS  OR UK TRAVEL DOCUMENTS
If you are a British Citizen you   can obtain tourist visa either at the port of entry in Turkey for £10.00 or from this Consulate General for £ 68.00.  

The sticker visa obtained  at the port of entry in Turkey will grant you 90 days stay with multiple entry to Turkey  starting from the date of issue. (eg: the sticker visa  issued on 5 May 2010 expires on  2 August 2010).

British National Overseas, British Subject  and British Protected Person passport holders are not issued  sticker  type of visa at the port of entry  in Turkey.  They should obtain their visas  from this Consulate General before traveling.

If you are not a British passport holder; yet you have a  travel document (not Certificate of Identity) issued by the Home Office of the UK, you need to obtain visa before traveling to Turkey. For more information on what a travel document issued by the UK is and upon what basis it can be issued, please see  "http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk"

Please note: tourist visas do not give you the right to take up paid or unpaid employment or to reside, or to study (including student exchange program) or to establish yourself in business in Turkey.

Taken from here

http://www.turkishconsulate.org.uk/en/visa.asp?PageID=2#2
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Linda on August 10, 2010, 19:54:24 PM
The 'shelving' is the current situation as a result of the enforced changes that were announced without any notice and then withdrawn!Many people such as myself have lived here legally / 'illegally' for the past 4 years. I dont consider myself a criminal as i have abided by the rules and regulations. If I have got off an a technicality so be it but I am still here legally and have not required a resident permit to live here for the past 4 years. If the systam changes I am perfectly willing to purchase one but I have done nothing wrong ..
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: tribalelder on August 10, 2010, 20:02:50 PM
If you accept the above transcript and you are residing here on a tourist visa you are doing so illegally. You are breaking the law and are technically committing an offence....the fact that you have not been penalised YET is just fortunate for you and many hundreds of others :)
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Julesp on August 10, 2010, 22:36:57 PM
Residing here on a tourist visa has always been illegal. Fact. Nothing to do with the tourist visa changes. Just the Turks being lax in enforcing the law
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: sunnyd on August 11, 2010, 11:40:09 AM
Linda, you have lived in Turkey for the last 4 years on a tourist visa........ you are not a tourist then, so you have been living here illegally in the eyes of the law. The rules have always been the same, if you are a tourist you can come in on a tourist visa. If you live here you need to have a residency visa. Lots of people 'have got away with it' for many years only because the law has not been enforced properly. Then when they decide to start enforcing a law that has been around for many years everyone argues. The British ambassador should not have got involved with that fact, he should have directed his ambassador skills to the cost of the residency visa.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 11, 2010, 17:42:25 PM
Plus I read this today:

State health provision. As of Oct 1st 2010, all residents must have National Health Insurance. There is a monthly cost that varies dependent on age/circumstances etc, but basic cost on today's figures are 182 TL a month which covers self, spouse and children. Considerably less than private insurance with generally more services on offer.

From :http://turkeyvilla.com/

Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Dizzy Jan on August 12, 2010, 09:48:03 AM
Stoop I could not find the article mentioning this on the site you posted. Please can you point me in the right direction. This seems very silly as the only way they will be able to do this is to connect it to the residency. So do we all go illegal and buy visa which they want to stop. I cannot believe that they are expecting us to pay 2184yl a year as well as the high residency or was this the plan when they tried to enforce the law?
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 10:09:06 AM
There is a thread on the forum but this link is what they are actually discussing. Reading it it seems you either have to have private medical insurance or join the state scheme:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=attention-to-this-date-2010-08-05
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: starman™ on August 12, 2010, 10:16:21 AM
I have found this site.
http://www.aksam.com.tr/2010/08/08/yazar/18344/metin_tas_sezgin_ozcan_/genel_saglik_sigortasi_uygulamasinda_1_ekim_de_ne_degisiyor_.html

If you have NI back in England then it should not count and if you have private medical insurance then you dont need to pay.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 10:39:44 AM
If you live permanently outside the UK you are not covered by NI any longer and you are not able to get NHS treatment in Turkey or the UK as technically you should inform your GP and be taken off the NHS register.

As far as I now Turkey does not have a reciprocal health agreement with the UK has it?
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 10:54:09 AM
Found this - a full translated copy of the Turkish Health System. Article 60 is way down the page and says this:

Individuals who are deemed to be holders of universal health insurance
ARTICLE 60 - (Amended: 17/4/2008 - 5754/38th Art.)


d) provided that principle of reciprocity is also taken into consideration, individuals of foreign countries who have residence
permit and are not insurance holders under legislation of a foreign country.

Here's the link - opens in adobe:

http://www.sgk.gov.tr/wps/wcm/connect/33ce7a004e3dc906abe6bbaab16de75f/SOCIAL_INSURANCE_AND_UNIVERSAL_HEALTH_INSURNCE_LAW.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Happy reading  :)


Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 11:10:33 AM
Not sure what this means to those on tourist visas? OK they are still technically covered in the UK but this isn't much use if you need emergency treatment in Turkey. So - as they are not residents they cannot apply for Turkish Health Care. Travel insurance is a big no-no as it normally only covers you for 30 days maximum (and I guess they would wriggle out anyway if they found you have been 'living' in another country). Private medical insurance might be an option but it's costly and how many have it?

S0 - you go to the hospital and they ask if you are a tourist or resident. What do you say? Will you get free treatment in the future?

Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Diverbaz 1 on August 12, 2010, 11:10:49 AM

I read it as people who work need to have it if they are not covered by their own country.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 11:41:35 AM
Reading it again Baz it does seem to be aimed at those who work. However it still begs the question - what do non-working expats do for health care? Does Turkey give out free health care or do you need some form of private health insurance?
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: starman™ on August 12, 2010, 11:41:59 AM
All places that employ foreigners pay SSK anyway and have always had to. My company has been paying mine for the last 7 years.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: tribalelder on August 12, 2010, 11:58:36 AM
Once again the gobbldegook is virtually impossible to understand and seemingly can and is being being interpreted in different ways so do we do like the visa/residence fiasco and wait until it is shelved[?]
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 12:03:22 PM
Probably Brian - but this one probably won't be 'shelved' as the British Consulate have said they will not get involved.

Seems it will be another 'suck it and see' Turkish law change. Hopefully Baz is correct and it's only workers.

I still wonder about health care for ex-pats in Turkey though. Maybe a topic for another thread?
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 12, 2010, 12:12:42 PM
Found this though that 'cr*p' forum  :)

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-will-you-do-if-you-have-a-health-problem-2009-12-16

Note the bit about 'emergencies'. Seems those are covered anyway.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: LeeGlo on August 13, 2010, 14:44:42 PM
OMG not another ruddy rule !!

Does this mean that anyone with a residence permit, living here full time will HAVE to take out this healthcare insurance?

We are both pensioners and don't work, is this going to be made compulsary for all?  

We chose NOT to take out healthcare insurance, due to the exhorbitant cost, hubby is 65 and had a mild heart attack 7 years ago (in the UK) for which he takes daily medication, I am Coeliac, I don't need much just B12 injections 3-4 times a year, administered by hubby.

We put aside a lump sum for any medical emergencies/treatments and pay for meds and any visits to the hospital/clinic etc as and when needed.



Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: GordonA on August 14, 2010, 18:36:52 PM
How come all you moaning 'ex-pats' on this thread are saying with one breath that you're living in Paradise, then moan like hell when you are asked to abide by the laws of that 'Paradise'? Probably the same ones who moan about immigrants coming to the U.K. (Legal or not). If you are not willing/happy to obey the laws, and pay your dues to obtain the proper, legal paperwork, get the hell out of the country. Get on with your lives.
Gordy.
Now happily living in beautiful Hampshire, having done the Turkey thing, FULLY LEGALLY, I hasten to add!! : :): :):D:D:P:P :o :o
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: janmack on August 14, 2010, 23:17:23 PM
Jeez why is it if anyone dares to challenge the system we are labelled "moaning ex-pats"???  I'm pretty sure wherever you live in the world it is not perfect.  Enjoy freedom of speech while you can. Even though I've lived here for a number of years I have never thought it was Paradise and I'm pretty sure most folk I know would agree.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: barry44544 on August 15, 2010, 08:01:30 AM
I can see that some people who come here just cant make it,
Surely everyone who come's to another country to live is an "ex-pat"?
It don't matter what country you go, rule changes will always happen.
Some people will never be happy, dont' matter where they live
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: janmack on August 15, 2010, 08:43:37 AM
We're happy here, we just don't think it's Paradise!  Paradise would probably be our own private island with no other humans.  lol.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 15, 2010, 08:44:06 AM
What Gordon is getting at is those ex-pats who choose to live in another country and are not prepared to abide by that country's rules and laws. Living in Turkey (and many other countries) on a tourist visa is against the law. This wasn't a rule change just a decision to stop abuse of the system. It's always been a requirement to have residency if you live there.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: GordonA on August 15, 2010, 15:57:07 PM
Bummer! Backfired on me! I was really looking forward to getting some REAL SERIOUS flak over my post, Oh well, I must have got it right then!!
I'll have to think of something else to get peoples backs up, I s'pose,
Gordy,:D: :)
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: friar tuck on August 15, 2010, 16:58:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stoop

What Gordon is getting at is those ex-pats who choose to live in another country and are not prepared to abide by that country's rules and laws. Living in Turkey (and many other countries) on a tourist visa is against the law. This wasn't a rule change just a decision to stop abuse of the system. It's always been a requirement to have residency if you live there.


So does that mean
1 All foreigners that live in UK abide by the laws of the UK

2 All Turks in Turkiye abide by the same laws that we must abide by eg tax and insurance for cars and scooters, drink driving, all taxes paid etc etc.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: janmack on August 15, 2010, 17:37:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GordonA

Bummer! Backfired on me! I was really looking forward to getting some REAL SERIOUS flak over my post, Oh well, I must have got it right then!!
I'll have to think of something else to get peoples backs up, I s'pose,
Gordy,:D: :)


You're just too funny!!
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Rindaloo on August 15, 2010, 18:14:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stoop

Found this though that 'cr*p' forum  :)

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-will-you-do-if-you-have-a-health-problem-2009-12-16

Note the bit about 'emergencies'. Seems those are covered anyway.



I wish certain people would leave other forums alone.  If it was that cr*p then how comes you have felt the need to copy information you found on there.  Can't there be more than one Turkish forum????
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: yabanci on August 16, 2010, 09:21:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by GordonA


I'll have to think of something else to get peoples backs up, I s'pose,
Gordy,:D: :)


Try singing then Gordon.:D: :)
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: GordonA on August 16, 2010, 13:45:01 PM
Paul, that was NOT called for!

Mr.Tuck, so YOU  are of the opinion that because some people are guilty of infringement of the law, that everyone has the right to do the same, what is/was your chosen occupation, please remind everyone!?
I would suggest that there is only 1 choice to make if you wish to be a 'Legal Resident'; either you get caught, pay up, or ship out!!!![:(!][:(!]

Gordy.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 16, 2010, 14:26:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo

quote:
Originally posted by stoop

Found this though that 'cr*p' forum  :)

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-will-you-do-if-you-have-a-health-problem-2009-12-16

Note the bit about 'emergencies'. Seems those are covered anyway.



I wish certain people would leave other forums alone.  If it was that cr*p then how comes you have felt the need to copy information you found on there.  Can't there be more than one Turkish forum????




If you take the time to read the whole thread you will see that it wasn't me that called that forum 'cr*p' and that I was in fact being sarcastic.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 16, 2010, 14:34:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by friar tuck

quote:
Originally posted by stoop

What Gordon is getting at is those ex-pats who choose to live in another country and are not prepared to abide by that country's rules and laws. Living in Turkey (and many other countries) on a tourist visa is against the law. This wasn't a rule change just a decision to stop abuse of the system. It's always been a requirement to have residency if you live there.


So does that mean
1 All foreigners that live in UK abide by the laws of the UK

2 All Turks in Turkiye abide by the same laws that we must abide by eg tax and insurance for cars and scooters, drink driving, all taxes paid etc etc.



Two wrongs rarely make one right do they[?]
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: simpsons on August 16, 2010, 15:29:15 PM
It seems to me (rightly or wrongly) that when they the Turkish need more money, the go to the "Bank of Ex-Pats". Ive noticed this a lot in the 5 years I have been living here. Yes I know we  should all get residency whilst living in Turkey, but the government keep putting the price up every year until those living here cannot afford to do so. They seem to forget that a great number of Turkish people who go to the UK, do so without a lira in their pocket, but at the expense of their girlfriend or wives. I have known a number of Turkish men who marry an English girl and have already applied for a visa before they are married. However, when we come to live in Turkey, we must bring money with us as a means of living, and applying for residency you must prove you have means to live here without working. When are the British Government going to wake up and discover that ex-pats are being ripped off, whilst Turkish ex-pats are living it up in Britain on money which is not theirs. Rant over.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: desmartinson on August 16, 2010, 15:39:41 PM
for gordon and stoop, im still smelling the coffee, and still dont need residency.lol
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: GordonA on August 16, 2010, 18:07:48 PM
Are you really, really, really sure, Des, or be ye on a wind-up??
Gordy.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: desmartinson on August 16, 2010, 19:41:14 PM
Hi Gordon, im as sure as turkey saying its illegal, but letting people carry on doing it. sounds a bit like tony blair and gordon browns britain, and we all know what a state they left it in after 13 years dont we, so lets wait and see. still smelling the cofee stoop, come on still waiting for you to say you were right des(for now) lol
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: GordonA on August 16, 2010, 19:49:38 PM
Sorry Des. I never get involved in discussing 'Parrots and Clocks',  unless in a face to face situation, especially as I am a 'Dyed in the Wool' Labour man!! :D:P
Gordy.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: desmartinson on August 16, 2010, 20:16:28 PM
thats fine gordon, i was born and bred in newcastle. labour since the year dot, but then decided there has to be something better than this so i left 45 years ago(still looking) but lets not get into politics, spoils a good forum, good to talk to you.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Rindaloo on August 16, 2010, 21:50:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by stoop

quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo

quote:
Originally posted by stoop

Found this though that 'cr*p' forum  :)

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=what-will-you-do-if-you-have-a-health-problem-2009-12-16

Note the bit about 'emergencies'. Seems those are covered anyway.



I wish certain people would leave other forums alone.  If it was that cr*p then how comes you have felt the need to copy information you found on there.  Can't there be more than one Turkish forum????




If you take the time to read the whole thread you will see that it wasn't me that called that forum 'cr*p' and that I was in fact being sarcastic.



I did take the time to read it and I have now taken the time to re-read it and the only person saying  "that cr*p forum", is you.

Tell me what I have missed when I read and re-read this topic.....
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Rindaloo on August 16, 2010, 21:59:51 PM
Our Turkish neighbour was saying he s dismayed that there isn't any organisation here to help Expats to know about what is required to live in this country.  Nothing to make things easier.  I sat thinking about this and thought that the nearest we have is forums like this.  Though very useful, you can see there are lots of differing opinions and somewhere in there is the truth about what this SGK insurance is all about.  What I am exasperated about is lack of involvement by the consulate.  What are they there for??

Also, if we have SGK and have an accident or collapse in the street.  Will we be whisked off to Esnaf and cop a huge bill??  How will THEY know we are on SGK if we are unable to tell them.....
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: BM06 on August 16, 2010, 22:45:20 PM
{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}36909&whichpage=2  Here is the original post Rindaloo, hope that clears the misunderstanding up.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 16, 2010, 23:03:44 PM
Topic was merged into one - so I'll forgive you ;) This was the original post I was referring to:

tribalelder
Even Seniorer Member
   
Posted - 12 August 2010 :  09:43:53  

Nearly another £ Grand a year.....is this going to be the straw that breaks the camels back IF it is true that is.....can't find any reference on the site.....and as for the Forum what a load of Cr*p that seems to be. Please post if any one finds a reliable source to this information which is only a couple of months away.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: Rindaloo on August 17, 2010, 00:22:14 AM
Thanks BM06 (and Stoop).  Convoluted eh!!

As a matter of interest, we are going to arrange for this insurance now that we have had more info.  I brought this subject up early last year, or possibly late 2008.  We went to Vakif Bank twice and got nowhere. Turns out you make your payments there but the original set up can be arranged by Günes Atak.  I contacted her today and she will arrange it for us when I get back from UK.
Title: Relief as visa rules changes shelved!
Post by: stoop on August 17, 2010, 13:06:43 PM
Seems we have a new topic on the health insurance so maybe we should post on that one as it's a dedicated one. We can leave this one for the  Visa topic:

{A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}37061