Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: julesbob0303 on August 29, 2010, 19:33:48 PM
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I'm just interested in other members views on this.
I have four "children" - a son of 25, and three daughters aged 21, 18 and 15. The oldest, our son, has been living with his girlfriend for almost four years. He paid a nominal amount once he was working full time, even though he wasn't in a well paid job. (He was often reluctant to cough up, and had to be reminded!)
Our eldest daughter has just graduated from university, and has now been offered a full time job, starting in a couple of weeks time. At the moment, she's working full time in a temporary job, and has been for some weeks. Before that, she had a part time job, which she started at 15.
The middle daughter has decided not to return to college in September and it looks as if she has secured a full time job in a local family-run supermarket. Not brilliant, but at least it's a job. Again, she should be starting in a couple of weeks time. Like her older sister, she has also worked part time since she was 15.
Both put in extra hours during holidays etc with their part time jobs and earned quite decent money, buying their own clothes, cinema tickets etc.
I now feel that with full time permanent jobs looming that they should pay their way. Neither of them does anything to help at home. (The eldest will do her own washing, to be fair, but that's about it!) It's a real effort for them just to clean their own bedrooms, and I have to nag for days before it is done. Their piles of ironing can lie around for a couple of days before they bother to put it away.
We know this is our own fault, and they should have been made to do small jobs at an earlier age, but with four young kids, it was always quicker to do things ourselves, rather than wait for them to do it.
None of the girl's friends pay rent, and both are going to be appalled when I broach the subject! I googled a student forum earlier today and had a look at comments made by other "kids" of this age. About 80% seemed to think it was their given right to "freeload" (their word, not mine!) off their parents, no matter how much they earned, or despite their age (some of them were well into their twenties)!! The general opinion was that their parents chose to have them, so it was up to them to look after them, until they chose to leave home!!
My personal opinion is that it teaches your kids the value of money, and that just because you earn money, it may have to help with other things, other than just spending it all on clothes and socialising. I have made a list of our monthly outgoings (mortgage, gas, electricity, telephone, broadband, council tax, water rates, food bill etc) that I feel they should be making a (small) contribution towards if they are working full time.
As much as I love my kids, I'd like to think that one day, they will move out and we can live out our old age in peace and quiet! I feel that whilst we are "keeping" them, they'll never want to leave! We are still parenting every single day with our 15 year old, who will push the boundaries as much as she possibly can. After 25 years day in, day out, of doing this, it's really wearing thin, and we look forward to the day when we have the house to ourselves. Yes, we chose to have four children (more than most!) and we love them dearly, and wouldn't change a thing if we had our time again. My guilt at moaning about them worsens when I think of a dear work colleague who has just lost her only child (a lad of ten) to cancer. Like any parent, I just cannot begin to think of the grief she must be going through. It's every parent's worst nightmare.
It's things like this that make me think - should I just let them enjoy their wages, and hope that one day, they will fall in love and marry, and move out happily, knowing we had cared for them for as long as we were able.
Or should I instil the value of money into them, and make them pay their way with a weekly contribution to the family bills?
We both work full time. Between us, we earn fairly decent money, but are a long long way from being loaded (despite what the kids think!) Every month is a struggle as we like our holidays and feel we deserve them, since we work hard.
What are other member's opinions on this, and how have you got around this issue? Look forward to your comments ......... :)
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my two boys when they lived at home paid their way and never moaned at all about it
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£25 per week seems reasonable. Where else can they get full board, lodgings and servants for that amount?
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They simply must pay their way Jules. To let them "freeload" is to do them a disservice, they have to learn to manage money and where their responsibilities lie. Too often people get into financial difficulties, because they dont take control, always blaming the bank/credit card company for lending, never themselves for spending what they dont have. The amount they pay should be proportionate to their disposable income, if child number1 has more than child number2 they should pay more, after allowing for bus fares, student loan repayments etc. Point out its not just what they eat, its what they use gas, electric, water, etc.
When my kids were in full time education their money from part-time jobs was their own, once they joined the real world they paid, all be it a small amount.
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My two have always paid Julie.
I insisted on it for all the reasons you've already stated. £100 per month, which I feel is really fair considering they have had or have everything done for them.
Our son, before he left home gave it no problem. Our daughter however has the attitude of those on the student forum you mention and I've to remind her every month. I shall continue to remind her and she will continue to pay or else she'll find herself homeless.
I'm of the opinion that if it was good enough for me and Billy then it's good enough for them. They need to learn how it is in the real world.
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Our eldest daughter paid her board when she worked during the hols from university. I think I asked for 10% of her wages which wasn't much at the time. When she finished university, she bought her own flat and hasn't lived at home since. The youngest has gone to uni and not come home in the hols although she does come on holiday with us - and we pay for that pleasure. I think that they should pay thier way otherwise how do they know how to manage financially and budget for what they want? Good luck incidentelly.
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With the greatest respect Jules, no comment.
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I had to pay my mum and dad one third of my earnings as soon as I started to earn a salary. It wasn't negotiable.
I was also encouraged to save a third and continued to do that after I left home.
It helped me have respect for what I earned and the value of my contribution. It also helped me to manage a budget when I left home and I am still very careful with money.
On the other hand my brother ran up massive debts on credit cards at age 18 and had to be bailed out by my parents and he is still a risk taker where money is concerned - fortunately for him he is very talented at what he does and earns a bomb so can afford to be.
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My children both paid there way. £100 a month was a reasonable sum then and that was eight to ten years ago.
Both had tried flats and were quite happy to pay.
Point out how much it cost for rent etc if they had their own place.
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Our 2 paid when they were at home, some months if they had something special on we let it slip, but not very often, they must pay board, even if just a nominal amount, if in doubt chuck them out, that was what i was told when i lived at home.
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Jules, ask yourself, can you sit back and watch them waste the money which if you charged rent would be in your bank account. If you can then don't charge, if you can't (like me) then charge. Teenagers/young adults have a genetic predisposition to being thoughtless and selfish at times without even trying....... George moans at the fact he is charged rent.......moan away boy I believe I am practicing good parenting by charging and as yet I haven't found the book that indicates that I am either right or wrong so we have done what we feel is right and we charge what we feel is right. Regarding the room scenario, it drives me mad but I am now of the opinion that as he pays he can live in the biggest mess regarding his room, his choice. I have discovered that after a while he does do it anyway as it drives him equally as mad. As parents it is our job to make independent individuals, who can fend for themsleves and contribute to society and this to me is the way to get them on the path to independance. Best of luck!
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They should be paying as soon as they start to earn. Both my boys had to pay and yes they moaned but how else do they learn money doesn't grow on trees. Yes you chose to have them and now you must be the responsible person to choose to charge them therefore helping them in the real world.
Both my boys now have their own homes and understand the value of money and I'm sure if they hadn't paid they'd both be still living at home freeloading from Mum & Dad.
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They should definately contribute to their home. When my daughter started college she received EMA (about 30 GBP), she asked me if she would still get her pocket money. I asked her to go away and think about it. She came back and said that we didn't need to give her any money, and that she would buy all her clothes, toiletries make up etc herself.This was really good for her, as when she went to university, she already knew about budgeting, and actually started an ISA with her student loans! Now after paying her rent, food and necessary bills every month, she puts half of what is left into her savings account, and the rest is her own to spend however she wants.
We have a duty to our kids to make them aware of the value of money,and that you cant have it and spend it!
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Some really interesting points. Many thanks to all who chose to comment. And to you, Mr H, who commented that you chose not to comment!!!!
Thanks again. :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
With the greatest respect Jules, no comment.
then why answer[?]:D
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My thoughts too, Anne. :)
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I think the easier you make it for your children, the harder you make it for yourself. And I am not entirely sure you are appreciated for it either.
Our sons paid us for their keep once they began working.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rindaloo
I think the easier you make it for your children, the harder you make it for yourself. And I am not entirely sure you are appreciated for it either.
Totally agree Lynne. That's part of our problem I think - we've let them get away with doing nothing for far too long! It was easier that way when they were little - now it's a real slog trying to get them to do anything! (It's still often easier to do things ourselves rather than battle and argue with them, especially at the end of a stressful day at work.) And, as you say, they rarely appreciate everything we do for them. :(
Though we were missed whilst we were away in Calis - probably because they had to fend for themselves for a month, and they found it bl**dy hard work!!!! :D
It's going to be VERY interesting in the future to watch how they cope with a home and family of their own. I think that's the point when they'll realise how much we did for them - we might finally be appreciated! (Our son has certainly realised since he moved out just how easy it was at home, with nothing but a basic rent to pay, and everything provided and done for him!!! He also often reminisces about our family holidays and realises how much we sacrificed with only one wage coming in, a large mortgage, and still we had at least one good holiday each year. He and his girlfriend find it difficult to find the money for any holidays, and that's with two wages coming in! :) )
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Yes its a different world now. They seem to expect more, day to day (holidays, washing machines, cars), and don't want to do without. One of our sons (29) now has a daughter and it has certainly hit him now how much we achieved at such a young age (without the help of parents, I might add).
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Jules - I just asked Lottie what she would expect and her response was. 'If I was working full time and earning money, of course' and that she would expect it too be linked to the amount of money she was earning, ie: a percentage. I said would she think £100 was reasonable, she said yes, and more if she was earning a good salary. She then added ' how old are they...when I said 21 she said 'woow, tell her to get out - does she realise how much things cost ?!). Since she was 16 she has had an allowance - this allows her to buy everything that she needs ie: clothes, make up , shampoos, pocket money for cinema, meals out and birthday presents. She has leant to budget effectively and understands the value of money. When in Turkey she spent more than her contracted minutes on her phone, and has automatically deducted that amount from her allowance this month, (without asking) in order to pay us back. She now has a small saturday job and is saving like mad to afford university.
You have to stick to your guns on this one !!
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I agree Toni. Nice to see that Lottie is such a sensible girl and very well balanced! :)
Our girls have never had an allowance as such - we bought them things like clothes, make up etc as they needed them, but with four kids, they knew money was tight, and to be fair, they never took advantage. As they have all worked part time from the age of 15, from then, they have bought almost all of their own clothes (not things like school uniform obviously!) and other luxuries as needed.
Our 21 year old has a minimal student loan from uni, as we helped as best we could, and she lived at home for the biggest part, with barely any travelling expenses. :)
As Lynne says, kids do expect so much these days - cars etc, and our oldest three are all trying to save for cars, as, again, we are not in a position to pay out for cars for all of them. Our own two cars cost us a fortune!
Again, thanks for all the comments. It's really interesting how other parents have dealt with this. (It was so much easier when they were all little ........... :-\ )
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When our 3 started work they were allowed to keep their first wage for themselves and after that they then contributed towards the household.
As most wages are automatically paid into a bank account, maybe a standing order could be set up from them to you? This would help avoid the hassle of you having to ask for their rent if it doesn't materialise?
Good Luck
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Hi Julesbob, saw this and thought of you http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=36187619#post36187619 x
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£30-£40 a week is what I'd be asking if my "kids" were working full time. Food, heating, washing, power bills, trips to supermarket, phone, Sky TV, transported here and there if they don't have a car, their friends staying over..............yip, real value for £40 a week if you ask me.
If they don't like it, then tell them to try and get a better deal anywhere else.
:D
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My son always paid keep when he was at home, Kirsty is 20 and working, she gives me £50 per week, but I explained, if I had a partner it would obviously be lower?
She is happy to pay this amount, but sometimes I don't take anything.
This weekend she is camping in wales for 3 days with her boyfriend so she is let off!
And she is soooo scruffy and untidy in the house you never believe it!
I have took pictures of her bedroom and threatened to put them on Facebook!
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Very interesting NB - this looks at the "dilemma" more from the parents point of view, rather than the kids (the student forum I looked at earlier in the week covered their point of view - a bit different to that of their parents!) :)