Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: tinkerman on December 10, 2010, 08:54:45 AM
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just been reading the reports in the Sun
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3269757/Riot-yobs-accused-of-shaming-Britain-as-orgy-of-violence-continues.html
:(
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What many of the students fail to grasp is that once they have made their way through university and find a position paying enough that their loan repayments become due, they'll be Tory to the core anyway.
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I support protesting students. I do not support rioting yobs.
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I support the right to any PEACEFUL protest, I may not agree with what they are protesting about but ours is a free country with freedom of speech. I do not support violence and rioting hooligan idiots. How do they expect their protest to be listened to now? They are supposed to be the businessmen, scientists, engineers etc of the future, god help us all!
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Totally agree with you Colwyn. i have always supported the right to education, and the right to peaceful protest. The pictures of these yobs desecrating the war memorial sickened me.Shame on them!
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We put our daughter through University in England so I know how much it cost us at that time. It's not just the fees that have to be considered, it's rent, food, clothes and travel. I support the students, but I think their cause has been hijacked by anarchists with their own agenda. So wheneven a protest is advertised it's an excuse for the anarchists to get out and cause mayhem. I really don't have a lot of time for Royalty, but I thought what happened to Charles and Camilla was disgraceful.
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I do support the students and their right to protest, but as most do not agree with the violence! I watched some of the clips and was disgusted!! Urinating on Winston Churchills statue and desecrating the war memorial shows complete disrespect to their own country. Not only that but the attack on the police horse too.
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I personally do not support the students, I support the right to free speach and peaceful demonstrations, but I just can not get behind the students. OK the fees have increasd but not all of the Uni's are increasing their fees, only some, so it will be a choice for people in which one they want to go to, they do not have to start paying back their debt until they are earning around £21k and then they get a very cheap interest rate. They choose to go to Uni to either further their education or (dont shout at me) doss around for a few more years (only some I may add) because they do not know what to do with themselves. Many of my friends who went to Uni said they would still go now even with the increase, but they worked their way through uni they all had part-time jobs to help out with the cost of the food/rent/books/living etc so for people who want to go, they will have to work. Its everyone individual choice, I choose to work in the City so when my rail fares increase (£1500 in 18 months) (total cost of my ticket NOT including the tube or carparking is £3k annually) I cant really moan, because its my choice! I know the Uni fees are on a different scale, but I am talking about choice here, its everyones choice. hopefully it will help out the country in some very small way also.
The riots yesterday were a disgrace, they were not students protesting they were trouble makers who just wanted a day out and who have probably never been to uni in their life!
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The students union have announced further protests will happen, thus supporting these thugs, they will have absolutely no support from the British public.
if you lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas.
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Doesn't that depend on whether or not the dogs have fleas ? ;)
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These particular dogs have fleas Alan
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
they will have absolutely no support from the British public.
Untrue. They will continue to have my support and that of many, many other people. Should peaceful football fans stop going to matches because some other so-called fans are thugs who rampage the streets?
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Totally agree with you Colwyn well said.
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I dont see much of that support on here so far, if they continue with these protests hijacked by these thugs the support they do have will soon dissapear and by continuing them they are condoning the actions of these thugs.
They have had three protests so far all getting worse as they go on, you the taxpayer are footing the bill for this, someone will pay with their life.
When was the last time you saw football hooligans causing this amount of anarchy,mayhem and total disrespect for society?
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As regards Charlie and his squeeze-whilst peaceful protest is always preferable the ever widening gulf between the obscenely privileged and the rest was certainly brought into sharp focus with these 2 pointless scroungers driving into a protest.
Will do both these lifetime on benefit chinless wonders no harm to see a snap of the real world
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Tinkerman, I think you'll find there is a damned sight more support for the students than there is for Lib-Dems MPs who all signed a personal pledge to oppose rises in fees and then voted the opposite way, or abstained, at their first opprtunity.
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quote:
Originally posted by nuttybird
I personally do not support the students, I support the right to free speach and peaceful demonstrations,etc
NB - you have summed it up perfectly.
I would just add that "someone has to pay" and that is all of us taxpayers - so this is not a gravy train.
I also cannot abide this crusade to get degrees at any price - I haven't got one - 3 of my 4 children have good ones - but I am working with people regularly who have got one and frankly they are too often not very bright all all and as someone who once employed 160 people - they are unemployable in the private sector for anything other than minimum wage roles! When asked what have they got and where did they get it - the answers tell you more about selling inappropriate products to gullible teenagers than anything else.
To finish - I met a colleague at a Dobbies Garden Centre last week - we had pin striped suits on - we made a light hearted comment at the till and the young Asian lad politely said "are you business people?" He went on to tell us that he had got a degree from a local college that is now a University - yeah - in IT Infrastructure Management - for over a year - he couldn't get an interview let alone a job. He told us this was a new course and "he was "privileged" to be in the first cohort" - yeah - wonder who told him that?
We politely excused ourselves and sat down - he followed us to the table - "what would you do if you were me" he asked. The lad was polite, genuine and desperate - dreams shattered working on the till for minimum wage after being promised a bright future.
I wanted to say "sue the university because they are a bunch of money grabbing sharks who count numbers not people" but that wouldn't have helped so we tried to give hime some advice and some hope.
My point is these degrees are too often a sham - basic laws of supply and demand - too many do not lead to employment - so bring back vocational qualifications - city and guilds - technical schools and get some of these people into real jobs.
Rant over - Ian
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
As regards Charlie and his squeeze-whilst peaceful protest is always preferable the ever widening gulf between the obscenely privileged and the rest was certainly brought into sharp focus with these 2 pointless scroungers driving into a protest.
Will do both these lifetime on benefit chinless wonders no harm to see a snap of the real world
Oh right - off with their heads then?
Should all pensioners be terrorised on the streets of our capital or is it ok if it is just the very rich ones?
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Dont make me laugh-these 2 have very little in common with many many pensioners. What these scrounging toffs scoff in champagne from their benefit money would keep many poor (and getting poorer) pensioners warm for the entire winter.
The two of them with their over priviged excessive lifestyle are a nauseating example of a massive rich/poor divide
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You are bringing something into the debate that has nothing to do with the subject - a bit like our anarchists really.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
You are bringing something into the debate that has nothing to do with the subject - a bit like our anarchists really.
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Dont make me laugh-these 2 have very little in common with many many pensioners. What these scrounging toffs scoff in champagne from their benefit money would keep many poor (and getting poorer) pensioners warm for the entire winter.
The two of them with their over priviged excessive lifestyle are a nauseating example of a massive rich/poor divide
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Edited by - saoirse on 10 December 2010 14:37:52
Saoirse, still doesnt mean the 'protestors' behaviour was right. Whatever your beliefs are with regards to the Royal family, they did not deserve that last night. That was downright disgusting/violent behaviour. The whole protest was. It has made a mockery of the students that did perhaps want to demonstrate peacefully.
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The students have now provided the platform for these anarchists three times, each time the situation has got more violent, the students are now providing further platforms for these people, that suggests to me that the students condone the action of these people and anyone who still supports the students after this also condones this anarchy.
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Nah-I reckon those 2 freeloader toffs were good value for it
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Tinx - as I said before "gullible".
We saw a number of nice middle class students interviewed yesterday who said "we didn't think etc etc" - admitedly others tried to justify everything - youth - can't ever be wrong - I am sure we were similar at their age? (you probably can't remember ;) )
These are in the main young people who are being manipulated - in some cases by their own student union reps - some realise it and others sadly don't.
However it has to stop as you are right to say - what happens next time and the time after that.
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"You are bringing something into the debate that has nothing to do with the subject". Agree with you Ian - although my sentiments are with Soairse. A separate topic - if at all.
"a bit like our anarchists really.". That's the problem with anarchists - not following the rules; clue is in their title.
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:D lol - agreed
Anarchism is a political philosophy which considers the state undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful
Except on a Tuesday when they claim their benefits :D :D
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I support anyone's right to protest peacefully. However the violence and disgusting antics towards our war dead is not acceptable and those invloved should be ashamed of themselves.
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Notwithstanding the increase in fees, are we not in danger of allowing too many of our young people to go to university ?.
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I wonder why these "peaceful protestors" seem able to access wherever they like and do what they wish. Maybe a scaffold pole in the side of Charlie's face and three or four students gunned down by the following close protection team as a result may just have allowed all sides to reflect, and realise that this is achieving nothing - for anyone.
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Call me an old cynic... But..paparazzi out numbered the so called protesters
who just happened to be outside the London Palladium
after A massive protest......and the bulk of students were trapped in Westminster.
And.. the Bars were open.
Scapegoats...
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I support the students 100%,I believe their protest is a just one,but unfortunately once again the media highlights the scum bags,bear in mind the number of students on the marches who behave sensibly compared to number who do not.
Its refreshing to see a group of people who are not prepared to lie down and let the government steam roller them.
I mean lets be fair,its all very British is'nt it,peaceful demonstration,police mob handed,banging skulls,horse charges,they'll be bringing out the tanks next.
Yes,I support the students whole heartedly,nice to see a spark of life in the land of doom,gloom,and apathy.
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It's a good job you don't live in France, Greece, Spain or god forbid Eastern Europe - the water cannon and the real riot police would have been out there (with tanks to follow) and we would have had a bloodbath.
Your point about "just a few" is decimated by student union officials justifying the "understandable anger" - total tosh ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
realise that this is achieving nothing - for anyone.
Maybe. A bit early to call I think. It has already possibly achieved (you could say there were other reasons I suppose, but I can't
think of any now) a number of concessions from this Govt - most importantly not only linking the incoming £21k threshold to inflation annually (instead of every five years) but also retrospectively applying this rule to current students (the £15k limit). In the longer term it may well change policy for individuals and even government. Let's not forget that that the overthrow of Thatcher was certainly significantly influenced by the violent, politically condemned and "unacceptable" street protests against the Poll Tax. I'll spare you all the more historical examples of "disgraceful" violent protests that led to what we presently think of as our "rights". So, I can't go along with the negativity that this protest is doomed to achieve nothing. Even if it was I would still support it (I'm used to being on a losing side).
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I also wonder, slightly off topic, whether this desperate concession in order to gain a bit of power for a change is in fact the final activity of the Liberals in British politics. Surely after this incredible and fundamental U-turn, they will never be voted for again in any meaningful numbers..?
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I do'nt know Ian if your post was in reply to mine,so I care fully reread mine,and I can' find any reference to "just a few" so obviously it can't be.
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GB - yes it was to you if the cap fits and to all of those who try to justify what has happened.
I believed the inference was intended to mean a few.
"I mean lets be fair,its all very British is'nt it,peaceful demonstration etc etc"
For London - think Istanbul or Beijing - for Churchill think Ataturk or Mao and imagine the outcome.
Yes - sadly I suspect the Liberals are finished but I have to say - we would likely be getting even harder medicine to swallow if it wasn't for the coalition :)
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Maybe so, but I do think that the British prefer a politician who preaches things we can't agree with but at least we can see they believe it themselves, than in people who stand for one thing and throw it away when the situation suits.
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I support the students right to protest peacefully but working in Whitehall I have seen first hand how these protests have become increasingly more violent over the last three weeks and I certainly do not envy the police in the job they have to do. This week was by far the worst and most violent and the damage to a number of the Government buildings in Whitehall was unecessary and solved nothing.
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Everyone quite rightly has their own view and I wouldn't have it any other way. GB is a GREAT country and it annoys me when so many regularly "trash it". Coalition politics is new ground - it is unrealistic to expect either manifesto to be honoured.
But we are fortunate enough have a system in this country - called elections - and if you don't like what your Party or your MP did then vote him out at the next opportunity.
If you choose not to vote for a politician that breaks some of their party promises then you will not vote very many times!
However do not create or aid and abet mayhem and violence and expect to be able to freely abuse people and property at other people's expense because in the eyes of the law that makes you a criminal.
I am not going to post on this subect again as it is not good for my health - goodnight ;)
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
it is unrealistic to expect either manifesto to be honoured.
Why is it? Maybe flexibility is needed on some matters but giving up the policy that I was on the news stating in spoken words and holding signed pledge that I would never, ever support?
Come on!
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I am old enough to remember The London school of Economics riots..
and the protests at the American Embassy..
Now they were REAL protest.. and
Aldermaston..
Greenham Common.
Now ...........The French Revolution... That was a real protest.
Posh People against the poor and the students..
Will History repeat itself ???
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Posh people against posh students - where's the story?
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The poor student with poor parents who will be lumbered with their kids for three or four years..
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I am in full support of the student protest, the smashing of government buildings bothers me not one jot, if Charlie's driver decides to force his way through a protest march he deserved every thing he got and .( there's another good reason why the idiot should not be king) The desecration of war memorials does bother me, one of the basic tenants our parents fought for was Britain with a free national health service and Free education, a point missed by the protesters and most others it seams. I am totally urinated off by the press, people on this site and many others that allow the few episodes of violence to disavow the students of the right to protest and to allow it to lesson the veracity of their argument. unfortunately if the students conducted their protest within the limits of the law the government would take no notice of them, the sanitized laws of legal protest are a joke, designed to tame any protest and make it ineffectual. remember the poll tax protests, totally ignored until the violence made them stand up and be noticed. Go students go, with my full backing.
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The Government line is always .. There is no alternative.
But there is..
History shows that all Government is with the will of the People.
Well said Mike.
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I do support the student's right to peacefully demonstrate for what they believe are their rights. Unfortunately the violence and disorder comes from the regular "rent-a-mob" who turn up to disrupt all demonstrations. I would not argue against the students having to pay tuition fees as they do not have to start repaying until they are earning 21 grand a year. The galling fact is that students in Wales and Scotland are not subject to the same conditions. Yet again England is expected to subsidise the rest of the UK [:(!]
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
The students union have announced further protests will happen, thus supporting these thugs, they will have absolutely no support from the British public.
if you lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas.
So, by announcing further protests the student union is supporting thugs, what a ridiculous statement to make.
and as for losing support from the British public you couldn't be more wrong.
I have been listening to the debates on local radio and it seems to me that those that agree with the protest are still backing the students and are not getting distracted by the violent
very tiny minority, there is much more support for the student protest than you realize.
most people see beyond the rabid ranting,s of the sun newspaper and do not allow it to cloud their judgment.
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There's none so blind as them that will not see.
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
I am in full support of the student protest, the smashing of government buildings bothers me not one jot,............ Go students go, with my full backing.
I work in one of those buildings that was attacked and damaged by the students and I can tell you it was scary being in there and clearing up the damage had to be paid for and guess what ... it was only paid for by the good old British taxpayer as was the policing and then of couse there was the medical treatment for those injured in this so called peaceful protest. Plus the damage and desecration to the memorials along Whitehall is utterly disgusting - they have no respect. We have all had to suffer these cuts in one way or another even with a war going on in Aghanistan we have had Defence cuts. Do we see our brave servicemen rioting along Whitehall no we do not. They are still loyally serving our country and doing their job. I fully expect another repeat of these riots next week and if the violence escalates as it has done over the last 3 weeks how long will it be before someone gets killed. Then I expect then taxpayer will be stumping up for Public Inquiries into "what went wrong" and "lessons learned". Thursday's protest was unacceptable
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MikeA - I do not agree with the distinction between the smashing of government buildings and the desecration of war memorials.
Surely, one of the other basic tenants our parents fought for was that we can have free democratic elected governments.
That being the case, they have to operate out of somewhere. As Elaine said it must have been very frightening for the innocent people inside.
On the Prince Charles issue, I'm assuming that you don't really think that it was his choice of route.
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I dont see the problem with the rise, of course if uni could be cheap or even free it would be amazing to give that opportunity to our children but we simply don't have the money!
When I left school it was acceptable to leave with GCSE's, Great to leave with A-levels and to get a degree would really stand you out from the crowd in the interview room but this is no longer the case.
I think looking at it as 'the poor being penalised' is wrong. Poor or wealthy, if you have the determination to achieve your goal then you'll get there, even if it takes you longer than posh joe bloggs.
If i'm 'lumbered' with my kids for an extra 10yrs so they can go to uni then I wouldn't begrudge that.
Any act of violence should be condemed, not condoned. Love or hate the Royals, an attack on 2 pensioners REGARDLESS of their standing in society is wrong on so many levels!
The acts on the cenotaph and Churchill were dispicable. Only animals can disrespect our fallen heroes and heroins like that and they should be utterly ashamed of themselves.
Rich or Poor, good manners, decency and respect cost nothing!
I know the numbers of violent thugs were small in comparison to those who protested peacefully but nevertheless, SOME of those violent scumbags WERE students. They are supposed to be the future of this country and if that's the case- God help us :(
Sorry, rant over [:o)]
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I said I wasn't but I think I will..................
xxbilleigh-joxx - Superb Post and it heartens me greatly that what appears to be the 2 youngest people to have posted on this subject have more informed views and common sense than some of the older dinosaurs - there is hope :D :D
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I agree Ian :) ;) lets hope common sense prevails.
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I see the idiot swinging on the cenotaph flag was multi millionaire David Gilmours (Pink Floyd)son in need of reduced funding whilst in Uni studying History and obviously hasn't covered the war years yet.
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That is part of the point, it seems easy to blame the thuggish behaviour on anarchists, socialists or other organised groups that turned up just to make trouble. The genuine students, we keep being told, are the ones you can see making peaceful protests. Except son of Gilmour. Oh, and Brockenhurst college student Edward Woollard, best known for peacefully throwing a fire extinguisher off the 7th floor roof of Millbank Tower towards the crowds below.
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See you are only a baby dinosaur - you are getting there - keep trying :D :D
quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
That is part of the point, it seems easy to blame the thuggish behaviour on anarchists, socialists or other organised groups that turned up just to make trouble. The genuine students, we keep being told, are the ones you can see making peaceful protests. Except son of Gilmour. Oh, and Brockenhurst college student Edward Woollard, best known for peacefully throwing a fire extinguisher off the 7th floor roof of Millbank Tower towards the crowds below.
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It is not often I look at the Daily Mail but it is currently running a poll on "Do you still support the students after all these riots?". The current voting is YES 62% NO 38% (in a Daily Mail poll!!!). It seems the correspondent from Uzumlu is a little out of touch with UK politics - not surprising really.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/polls/index.html
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Just to support my honourable friend the member for Uzumlu and others......
It took me 1 minute to identify a student chat forum
It took me 1 minute to establish that last night the scores were YES 33% - NO 67% - until the word went out for students to hijack the poll - like others hijacking a genuine peaceful demonstration ;)
As just one example see: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1487418
The Daily Mail was the clue ;)
Don't get me going again......................................
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So a third of the voters supported the students before you allege the "hijack" began? If you don't want to get going again again you should have followed your promise of several pages ago and stopped posting your mistaken comments (says this proud old "dinosaur").
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lol :D
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quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman
There's none so blind as them that will not see.
"The students union have announced further protests will happen, thus supporting these thugs"
Do I take it that as you have chosen to live in Turkey you condone the docking of dogs ears,
or is that statement as asinine as your one quoted above.
Twenty twenty vision is wasted on the sun, listen more and you might hear.
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H
"MikeA - I do not agree with the distinction between the smashing of government buildings and the desecration of war memorials"
Why not.
Surely, one of the other basic tenants our parents fought for was that we can have free democratic elected governments.
Only in power by the support of people who promised the students who voted them into power "No increase in student fees" and then voted for the increase.
This by you is a fair and democratic. ???
"As Elaine said it must have been very frightening for the innocent people inside"
Agreed.
"On the Prince Charles issue, I'm assuming that you don't really think that it was his choice of rout"
Surely the idiot knew there was a protest march on, one with poverty as a key issue, yet he allowed someone to drive a £1000,000 car into the protesters. The mans a cretin, with no regard for what's going on around him, or maybe he's a sun reader and believes we all love the royals, oh boy, didn't he have a dose of realism that day.
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So many truths in all of these arguments but surely the most worrying suggestion (or maybe I should say "fact") is that the only way to be heard is to resort to violence.
I detest the behaviour of the few and I really believe that based on sheer numbers, a peaceful protest could have been successful. Disruption yes, but violence?
Rent a Yob will not have my support - even if the cause is deserving.
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The question "Do you support the students over the loans issue?" is very different to the question "Do you support the student riots" - I agree that the students should protest and should not accept this horrifying, disgusting U turn by Clegg and Co. - but I do not support the violence in any way at all. People trying to blur the two questions into one are very evident.
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MikeA - we will need to agree to disagree.
I still don't see the difference in an attack on a government building and a memorial.
Also, I don't not believe that Prince Charles would have any input to or indeed knowledge of the route his car was taking. That entire matter will have been dealt with by others.
PS Don't know what you made of my post quoting "rout" instead of "route"
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quote:
Originally posted by mike A
Surely the idiot knew there was a protest march on, one with poverty as a key issue, yet he allowed someone to drive a £1000,000 car into the protesters. The mans a cretin, with no regard for what's going on around him, or maybe he's a sun reader and believes we all love the royals, oh boy, didn't he have a dose of realism that day.
I don't agree with that and I don't believe the man is a cretin. He is most probably a man who has faith in those around him to manage the situations they are employed to be expert in. I am anti-royalist but I find no reason to allow anyone from any walk of life to be "fair game" to be made to feel scared, in danger or vulnerable. It must have been awful to be driven into that. Indeed, of all the Royal family, I am sure Charles has the most empathy with the plight of the students. He isn't to blame for this, he has morals that right or wrong he will never do a U turn from.
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I'm not a fan of the royals either Scunner and agree with you in that noone should be subject to what they were. And i'd like to add in old Charlie's defence that his Princes trust charities do an awful lot for those who are disadvantaged to allow them to forward their lives for the better, those who probably wont go to university.
The only reason why I don't support the students is purely because our country is in a mess and cuts are having to be made where they shouldn't to get us back on track. This is noone's fault but the government that got us into this mess but it isn't going to go away or solve itself so like it or not, we are all going to have to feel the brunt of the cuts in some way shape or form and I don't see why students should be any different.
Hopefully one day our country will be back on track and maybe then the government can loosen the belt a bit....
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I work occasionally with the Prince's Trust - they do a wonderful job working directly with people.
Ironic really that their motto is:
Helping change Young Lives (young being 18 - 30)
Ian
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It really disappoints me how irresponsible my peers have been throughout the protests. The sad thing is that it's break away groups who probably got D's and E's in their GCSE's and have no interest in going to Uni - their just looking for an excuse to cause trouble in the name of a good cause. It disgusts me because they're hijacking peaceful protests which I believe would have had an impact if they were frequent and with no violence.
I also feel insulted by David Cameron saying that students don't understand the full policy. Well we already know that you don't pay the fees upfront - many get a loan already - but at least it was less to pay back after. £9,000 year is too much when there has been job cuts and it's going to take a while for things to return to normal or better.
My opinion on Cameron? It may seem childish but he is a posh Eton conservative with no grasp on the real world and a power obsessed tool << that's not swearing is it?
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You have my respect and admiration tiddly winks for the most sensible reply to this thorny topic,an intelligent reply from some one it actually effects.
I believe if we can put aside for one minute the bad press the students are getting due to the professional agitators,who will turn up at any protest meeting if they can disrupt it,and concentrate on the topic subject we'll get more informed input.
I'll state again,I support the students 100%,and if,tiddly winks,your fellow students have the same mature,intelligent attitude as yourself,which I'me sure they have,then I believe the free thinkers on this forum,those without blinkers,will also support your cause.
Wishing you all the best for the future. :).
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I support the students, they face a huge struggle in life to find a job if they leave with just GCSEs or A levels the world has changed since it was ok to leave with this level of qualification. Employers DO look for a degrees, my husband has been unemployed more times than I care to remember and so many of the jobs he could do with his eyes closed needed a degree ( of course he doesn't have one as we are the " ok to leave with gcse's" generation) The opportunity to make themselves an employable commodity is being taken away from lots of them. Those students we see demonstrating will mostly be unaffected by the changes, it's the students who are at school having just started 6th form who are affected, and good on those demonstrating for picking up the Batton for them. Of course by deffinition the young show signs of recklessness and thoughtlessness (she says as she waits for her 18 year old son to let her know he's ok after not coming home ) it's the thing I envy most of about them,not the youthful looks. Society needs Higher Education to make our next decision makers, the whole
system needs to change in order to make the fee increase a good political decision.
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GB I agree that employers did look for degrees. But I think that more and more employers are now wary of the value of such degrees because the numbers of pupils achieving university qualifications is increasing year on year and we are sending more and more people to university.
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Not in my experience H -jobs that my daughter would be interested in - requiring a degree, she doesn't have one. I would welcome the tide changing and employers changing the requirements -let us hope the tide is changing and the pressure on students to obtain a degree before entering the job market is changing.
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quote:
Originally posted by geordieboy
I'll state again,I support the students 100%
I doubt you actually do. Do you support the action of the student who threw the fire extinguisher off the 7th floor roof onto a crowd of police and fellow students below? If you do you are an idiot, and if you don't, you support the students somewhere slightly less than 100%.
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I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentiment GB.
(Off topic a litle). It is difficult for employers to taken on the role (and cost) of training people because they run the risk of the employee leaving after than have been fully trained.
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SCUNNER-I am sure Charles has the most empathy with the plight of the students. He isn't to blame for this, HE HAS MORALS that right or wrong he will never do a U turn from
Reckon Di would have not agreed with you on that one Mr S!
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No problem there, he had her killed!
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I'll state again that I support the students cause 100%,if you think Skunner that means I condone the actions of the ones using the tactics we've all seen,then you're a bigger idiot than you imply I am.
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Ah, adding the word "cause" to your statement makes a big difference, well done!
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We all have our own views and most of us will not have them changed.
I am personally guilty of getting over heated on this subject and for that I apologise if I have upset anyone.
I don't want to fall out with friends - as they say in the navy for good reason - no sex / politics or religion below decks
So why don't we park this BUT have a famous CBF Poll - with the question exactly as it was originally phrased and just options of YES or NO?
We will over complicate it if we provide an option of - without violence - because I think most of us would vote YES if it was without violence that is the point - many of us think by continuing their actions in this manner - sadly the students are now aiding and abetting thugs.
That way it can't be "rigged" (members only) and I am willing to learn if I am in the minority - I need to understand WHY.
Ps: But no bringing Tinx back from an overseas junket to vote :D :D
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well I will def vote no
I lost all respect for them when they didnt torch Charlie and his bird
call themselves rioters-
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Good Man - that makes it 2 - 0 to us according to my abacus :D
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The gist of this thread seems to have drifted from whether you support the action of the students to whether you need a degree to get a good job. I want to comment on the second point. No you do not need a degree to succeed in business. I left school with 5 O levels and spent a lot of my own time in technical colleges. At the age of 25 I achieved a City and Guilds qualifiaction in Paper Technology at RGIT (Rober Gordons Institute of Technology) in Aberdeen. This certificate would now be a degree as RGIT now has university status. Anyway I did very nicely from this. On the other hand my son got a 1st class honours degree in Economics and Business Studies from Plymouth Uni. He initially did loads of temping jobs and eventually ended up working 12.5 hour nights (4 0n /4 off) in a JD sports warehouse. When he met his now wife he sold his Lotus and paid 6 grand for a Computeach course. He is now well up the ladder as a programmer and the sky is the limit.
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Posted - 12 December 2010 : 12:43:24
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'I lost all respect for them when they didnt torch Charlie and his bird'
What a sick statement.
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Agree Peecee, what a completely sick statement. Saoirse I know more than likely you are saying these things to get a reaction from people, and you are acheiving that. I dread to think what sort of person you really are when you can say something like that. Someone who actually wants that to happen to another person is sick in my opinion, you need help. You are truly disgusting.
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I am shocked too and I wrote it
You need to get out more or lead a less sheltered life if black humour has such an effect on you
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I do agree with our republican in a way. I have written earlier how harrowing it must have been for them and that we shouldn't wish to see that happen to anyone. But they were pretty pathetic anyway as angry mobs go! Urinating on our cenotaph these naughty rich kids can manage, but bringing down the state when the heir to the throne is presented to them? No they aren't quite that angry and it is getting a little late. Worthy of special note is the gimp who was shouting "off with their heads". The literal translation of his sentiment being "Beheading the heir to the throne and his wife is an excellent idea, I hope someone else listens to me and does it because I am just a sad bloke with a big gob".
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I dont think you have a big gob
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You drunk again?
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I dont think anyone would have anything but contempt for those who desecrate cenataphs, graves etc. Low lifes.
My barbed sense of humour re Charles obviously went down bad with some. I take it you wont be wanting a Frankie Boyle dvd this Xmas
Anyhow no harm meant-very different sense of humour in this part of the world. Happy Xmas to all including any "Disgusted-Tunbridge Wells" types.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
"Beheading the heir to the throne and his wife is an excellent idea, I hope someone else listens to me and does it because I am just a sad bloke with a big gob".
Or perhaps he was a student of history and realized that tradionally in this country we wait until a Charles is king before we chop off his head.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I said I wasn't but I think I will..................
xxbilleigh-joxx - Superb Post and it heartens me greatly that what appears to be the 2 youngest people to have posted on this subject have more informed views and common sense than some of the older dinosaurs - there is hope :D :D
Well said that man!
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What gets me is why anyone actually took any notice of the Lib Dem Manifesto. I mean lets get real here - they knew there was ..er.. exactly no chance that they would be voted into power and therefore could make such ridiculous pledges knowing full well they would never have to follow them through.
Then they agreed to join up with the Tories and had to get back into the Real World :)
As for that plonker Gilmour! There are pictures of him in the paper trying to set fire to a building (probably with people inside)and to be honest he needs locking up for a long time. Spoiled little rich kid!
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
well I will def vote no
I lost all respect for them when they didnt torch Charlie and his bird
call themselves rioters-
Just how would the reader conclude that this was an attempt at humour.
PS I presume that you do know that you cannot call it black humour ;)
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It's just another term for sick humour H.
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I am shocked too and I wrote it
You need to get out more or lead a less sheltered life if black humour has such an effect on you
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Edited by - saoirse on 13 December 2010 10:35:10
Yes I lead a very sheltered life Saoirse, I dont know whats happening to the world out there from my little bubble of perfectness! My sincere apologies that I dont find it funny that you would like to 'torch' someone 'black humour' or not. Perhaps thats just because my friend was burnt alive because someone set fire to the flat beneath her and she couldnt get out. Or perhaps it has something to do with my cousin over in your neck of the woods was in a car fire and couldnt get out. Think you have picked the wrong person to be sarcastic to about these subjects, all be it you didnt know, and also re Frankie Boyle he is the lowest of the low, so your right no I wont be wanting his DVD this christmas, especially seen as my brother was severely handicapped/disabled when he was alive and I do not take kindly to anyone taking the mick out of anyone less able, physically or mentally than the rest of us! My rant over, sorry to all who read this that I have taken this so seriously but things like this really get my back up and I will speak up about it (and go into detail!). Now breath...
Back to those Students.....
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get over yourself-if we are to think of every possible event that may have happened to someone before we crack a joke we would all need to remain silent
As regards frankie-to put it bluntly whilst not everyones taste no one ever died over someone telling a joke
Humour is very individual (thank god) and what others find funny I may not and vice versa. God knows I would rather have Frankie and that sort of near the knuckle humour than some sad prat like Jim Davidson with racist humour which I dont find funny.
Lifes too short-if you dont find something funny, get up tight about it if you must-then move on.
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Yep your absolutely right Saoirse! I dont find it funny in the slightest, and yep I get up tight about these kind of remarks and im not ashamed of that, but hey as you say humour is very individual, especially yours, and what you said I didnt find funny at all, but you obviously did... so like you feeling the need to broadcast your humour, I feel the need to broadcast my disgust. Dont write something out on here and then not like it if someone objects. We are all free to our opinions. Gotten up tight, and now moving on!
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Dark humour is alive and kicking in the UK, more than ever before. It doesn't matter whether it's mass murderer Fred West or 200,000 people dying in a tsunami, my phone lights up with 'joke' texts about it. Such humour received from a friend seems acceptable. When it's on CBF written by someone you have never met it is a disgrace. Someone please explain that one to me...
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I have often thought about starting a separate thread asking if any subject is acceptable as humour. Honestly
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Scunner I find the concept of what people find funny fascinating
If a cruise ship sank tonight and I joked about it here the easily offended brigade would be on me-but if we tell a titanic joke its ok. So are sick jokes funny after a period of time-surely thats just hypocrisy
Same as what people go up in arms about-I often find that many moral crusader types have a darker side to their own sesnse of humour/morals etc. Someone who goes nuts re a disabled joke might well raise a smile at a racist one.
I know Mr S you have some experience of this part of the world and we are renowned for our gallows type humour-and we maker no apology for it, nor do we pontificate with moral judgements on whos humour is sick and whos not
For mere mortals like myself who try to be up front, warts and all-its amusing in itself to hear the self righteous declare whats funny and whats sick in humour.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
well I will def vote no
I lost all respect for them when they didnt torch Charlie and his bird
call themselves rioters-
I get lots of sick jokes sent to me after disasters and can see the funny side but don't send them on out of respect, thats my choice, but can you explain to me where the dark funny side is of the above statement?
then we can back on topic!
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No.:(
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obviously isnt funny to you-I just thought even at being rioters they were pretty inept.
Quite frankly as I have said humour is extremely individualistic. I dont find racist stuff funny, others do. The differnece is i wouldnt be going nuts about it nor passing self righteous judgement on those that do find such stuff funny.
If you like it thats good -if you dont , well no one died.
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That would have been funny - apparently
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lol
so we have established you have a different sense of humour-bit of a waste of bandwidth but there you go.
Back to topic indeed theres a thread re humour already started.
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:D its peaing down with rain and I have no television signal, so I have to come on here ;)
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Thing is saorise - it comes across as if you actually would have like them to be torched.
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Stoop I would genuinely love to care how you feel it came across!
The thing is its laughable the way some appoint thenselves as morality judges on others views/sense of humour etc
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If you really want my view it's that I think you are a bigoted person who falls back on 'humour' because you haven't got the guts to acknowledge your true thoughts when others stand up to you.
If you want our Royalty torched then just say so - don't say it and then hide behind what you call 'humour'.
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lol
love it- never met me know nothing about me and because I pass a naughty remark re the royals I am West Belfast OC-get a grip
Your view is sadly not surprising but a bit silly nontheless
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
lol
love it- never met me know nothing about me and because I pass a naughty remark re the royals I am West Belfast OC-get a grip
Your view is sadly not surprising but a bit silly nontheless
I can honestly say I have never thought this since the day this forum began but you are one person I would take great pleasure in never meeting.
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Well as you have never met me that statement says volumes about yourself-but alas I reckon I will get through life without the pleasure of your company. Now you have a great Xmas.
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
well I will def vote no
I lost all respect for them when they didnt torch Charlie and his bird
call themselves rioters-
Saoirse, I found the (offensive ?) remark very funny,
and like you I cant see what all the fuss is about.
Having a sense of humour is a curse it would seem.
:D:D:D
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thank you sir-but be careful or Stoop wont want to meet you!!!!
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quote:
Originally posted by saoirse
thank you sir-but be careful or Stoop wont want to meet you!!!!
Is that a joke ? ;)
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Thousands of sixthformers and FE students protested yesterday against the removal of Educational Maintenance Grants for 16 to 18 year olds. The grant is worth up to £30 a week for students from the poorest families to encourage them to stay on and gain more qualifications. This may be just as important a cut as the slashing of university teaching funding. The Goverment says it will replace it with a cheaper system. The hundreds of protests all over the country were carried out peacefully and (as a consequence - probably) there is virtually no news on it in the British media. So I though I'd mention it to you.
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So a combination violence and vandalism is the way to go, if you want to get your particular problem onto the telly.
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Unfortunately Yes.:(
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
So a combination violence and vandalism is the way to go, if you want to get your particular problem onto the telly.
Only if you think that the ends justify the means in this particular case. The way you choose to go depends on more things than getting on the telly. But protesting is supposed to be a public demonstration.
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point of veiw from both sides very strong, consider why government is doing what it is. it all comes down to the miss management of the last 15 years yes I include tory Major in this, Blair, Brown, all need to hang their heads in shame because if they had been up to the jobs they had we would have had robust banking rules etc. I warned you allover three years ago that B and B would bankrupt the country, just you wait and see what happens over next year as the councils down size work force. Students have a point it's one hell of an increase which I would have thought could have been phased in over three years.I think industry should be given tax breaks to help support student that are training to work in their industry like the forces do, students could sign up an apprentiship deal were they have to work for the company during holidays and for say two years after passing out. All this talk about Royal bashing and damaging any building beit MacDonalds or War memorials shows the typical left wing markist veiw point I think Ian and Stoop have made fair and valued post to this as have many others, some just seem to want to white stir.
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Saoirse, your comments "For mere mortals like myself who try to be up front, warts and all-its amusing in itself to hear the self righteous declare whats funny and whats sick in humour" Please explain to me how I am self righteous and oh what was it a hypocrit? Just because I do not like your humour, and said so! Its fine for you to broadcast your 'Humour' but as I said before its then fine for me to broadcast my disgust.Its not one rule for you and another for me! You do not know me, you do not know what I laugh at or do not laugh at but it certainly isnt any jokes along your line, Frankie Boyle or anyone that tells a sick/racist joke. Dont presume you know me so do not call me a hypocrit or self righteous. If you dont like it then it really doesnt bother me one way or the other! You told me to move on, which I was going to do, but your not allowing that to happen because your still grumbling on about it! I dont like your 'humour', and ive told you, end of. Now taking your own advice how about we all move on?! Oh and a very Merry Christmas to you also.
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Nuttybird
I certainly am not prejudging you-indeed it would appear that I am the one who is being regarded as the devil incarnate here because of my humour
My point is that humour is so much a matter for the individual that I honestly beleive no subject can be ruled out-but thats not saying everyone will find every subject funny
You went off on one because you had a personal experience of tragedy in the subject I mentioned. I do think its a tad unfair to expect me or anyone to avoid all subjects that may or may not relate to a tradgedy someone has experienced
I have an inbuilt aversion to "morality police" or those who decide they are better/higher morals etc than anyone else. I am not accusing you re that but the moral indignation expressed by some on here along with knee jerk decisions on what type a person someone is because of what they find funny is at best a bit daft. I of course would not delibrately tell a joke or post a comment just to hurt someone-but at the same time I cannot see it as practical to avoid all subjects in case they may offend.
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quote:
Originally posted by c1
point of veiw from both sides very strong, consider why government is doing what it is. it all comes down to the miss management of the last 15 years yes I include tory Major in this, Blair, Brown, all need to hang their heads in shame because if they had been up to the jobs they had we would have had robust banking rules etc. I warned you allover three years ago that B and B would bankrupt the country, just you wait and see what happens over next year as the councils down size work force. Students have a point it's one hell of an increase which I would have thought could have been phased in over three years.I think industry should be given tax breaks to help support student that are training to work in their industry like the forces do, students could sign up an apprentiship deal were they have to work for the company during holidays and for say two years after passing out. All this talk about Royal bashing and damaging any building beit MacDonalds or War memorials shows the typical left wing markist veiw point I think Ian and Stoop have made fair and valued post to this as have many others, some just seem to want to white stir.
c1.
your consistent right wing polemic is getting rather tedious now and comments like
"Royal bashing and damaging any building beit MacDonalds or War memorials shows the typical left wing markist veiw point"
owe more to your political leanings than reasoned argument.
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quote:
Originally posted by c1
if they had been up to the jobs they had we would have had robust banking rules etc.
I thought you right wing types were in favour of something you call "The Free Market" which works perfectly if it is unregulated? Can't remember Tories saying "Business should be controlled by more rules!". In fact, rather the opposite.
quote:
Originally posted by mike A
your consistent right wing polemic is getting rather tedious now a
Come on Mike, you've got to let people you disagree with have their say or we can't have a debate - and would be neither fun nor informative.
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Saoirse, i see your point, and think we both should agree to disagree, because I agree with some of what you have said and some not. :)
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quote:
Originally posted by c1
point of veiw from both sides very strong, consider why government is doing what it is. it all comes down to the miss management of the last 15 years yes I include tory Major in this, Blair, Brown, all need to hang their heads in shame because if they had been up to the jobs they had we would have had robust banking rules etc. I warned you allover three years ago that B and B would bankrupt the country, just you wait and see what happens over next year as the councils down size work force. Students have a point it's one hell of an increase which I would have thought could have been phased in over three years.I think industry should be given tax breaks to help support student that are training to work in their industry like the forces do, students could sign up an apprentiship deal were they have to work for the company during holidays and for say two years after passing out. All this talk about Royal bashing and damaging any building beit MacDonalds or War memorials shows the typical left wing markist veiw point I think Ian and Stoop have made fair and valued post to this as have many others, some just seem to want to white stir.
I agree wholeheartedly. What on earth does trying to burn the Christmas tree in Tragalgar Square solve:-\:-\ It just puts the tourists off of coming to London. More lost revenue that we need now more than ever now. Can you imagine what would have happened had this riot been in Fethiye!!!!
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quote:
Can you imagine what would have happened had this riot been in Fethiye!!!!
If is was anything like Labour Day in Taxim Square it would be one hell of a riot - including people killed!
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quote:
Originally posted by nuttybird
Saoirse, i see your point, and think we both should agree to disagree, because I agree with some of what you have said and some not. :)
More than happy to agree to disagree-thanx nuttybird
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
quote:
Originally posted by c1
if they had been up to the jobs they had we would have had robust banking rules etc.
I thought you right wing types were in favour of something you call "The Free Market" which works perfectly if it is unregulated? Can't remember Tories saying "Business should be controlled by more rules!". In fact, rather the opposite.
quote:
Originally posted by mike A
your consistent right wing polemic is getting rather tedious now a
Come on Mike, you've got to let people you disagree with have their say or we can't have a debate - and would be neither fun nor informative.
Very true Colwyn but the perpetual Blair/Brown bashing and" I warned you that" is tiresome in the extreme and furthers the debate not one jot.
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More trouble expected this afternoon in Whitehall. So anyone in London should keep away from the Whitehall area. Have just been told we may have to be locked in yet again for our own safety - so guess I'll be late home again.
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Stay safe Elaine and I hope you get home soon. :)
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To be honest, if you see the images of the riots in Rome today, we should be in a strange way grateful the protests here haven't resorted to burning cars. A strange perspective, but one nevertheless.