Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: quackers on March 06, 2011, 07:12:30 AM
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A Turkish Lady and her daughter, age about 9 ,came to our Villa the other evening and said she had just moved into the rented villa near us and her husband was at work in Gocek and she needed milk for her baby could we lend her 20lire and she would bring it back next day. There is newly rented villa near us and I can only guess she chose us because we have an MB registered car in the drive.No money given but I have reported it to Jandarma.Be aware folks she was very believable.Area is Koca Calis/Ciftlik.
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Is that there is no newly rented villa??
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20 lira for milk. What was she doing? Buying a cow.
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quote:
Originally posted by simpsons
20 lira for milk. What was she doing? Buying a cow.
If it really was for a baby, baby milk is expensive out here, and unfortunately the trend with young mothers is to bottle feed because the baby milk companies have persuaded them that it is the best way. They also have a lot of elective caesarean births
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quote:
Originally posted by Julesp
quote:
Originally posted by simpsons
20 lira for milk. What was she doing? Buying a cow.
They also have a lot of elective caesarean births
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Because again they are persuaded that it is best for them, a lot of turks who can afford it elect to have caesarean births because they can afford to, I cant believe how many of my friends here decided to have caesarean births, of course they are mostly in private health care and pay. If you Google you will find Turkey has one of the highest rates of Caesarean births in the world, the same with feeding the babies formula milk, there is a a kind of snobbery that they can afford to buy it rather than breastfeeding.
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How sad! Nature has spent so many more years getting it's formulae right - human milk for human babies - cow's milk for calves!
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quote:
Originally posted by sue@henry
How sad! Nature has spent so many more years getting it's formulae right - human milk for human babies - cow's milk for calves!
Very sad Big companies win again
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Is it really a scam? I mean, is a woman so poor/down on her luck that she has to resort to the embarrassment of knocking on stranger's front doors to ask for eight quid a scam, or just a reflection of just how difficult life can be for some in Turkey. Ok she could have asked for less or just asked for anything at all but a little compassion might just go a long way.
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Scunner this is why I posted baby formula is expensive here If not a scam just someone who is trying to find money to feed her baby And I stand by my previous posts Breastfeeding etc is out of fashion here
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No I agree with you, you only have to look at the chosen government to see how the uneducated can be influenced. My point is that we might be a little quick to condemn poverty as scam - and I know it is difficult to keep it all in context while interest rates and things like petrol prices are making things tough for Brits in Turkey. The raw fact is that while Brits might have to drink one or two less Efes, or go out one night a week less, there are people sifting through bins in the hope of collecting enough cardboard to allow them to buy a cabbage.
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My first instinct was that it may have been a genuine request and I would have given her the money, but didn't want to risk loads of flack! I'm very trusting and always wanting to please.
Naive probably but in the grand scheme of things 20tl isn't a lot to gamble just in case.
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No I still think it was a scam as the villa she said she had moved into is still empty. I understand what you are all saying and I would be the first to give help if needed. But I am still convinced it was not a genuine request for help.
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Last year we had gypsy women coming around the apartments in Fethiye asking for money for their babies milk.
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Just a mention about the elective caesarean births. The general rule here is that there are not many docotors on duty at any given time therefore it suits their purpose to have planned birth times to enable them to cope. I have two friends who argued with the docotors as they wanted a natural birth but it was not allowed. If they plan the births they can deliver several babies in a day at convenient times to the doctor. Sad but true according to my many Turkish friends. Back to the original subject.....Not being sure if she genuinly needed the money for the baby food I would probably given her ten to help her and to ease my conscience that I always have food to put in my cupboards ...... unlike many poor people.
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quote:
Originally posted by quackers
I would be the first to give help if needed
Yes, I know you would, I know you quite well :)
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So would I have, but I had just paid all the bills and been shopping so no money in the villa at the time. She chose the wrong day. Any other day she would probably have been given twenty lire.
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20 lira is not a huge amount, so depending on how needy the person looks, or how you feel at the time, maybe you would give. I would probably give and then see what happens from then.Turkish people do give money to those that ask, and also, we give in the Uk to lots of charities.
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Don't get me wrong but I give to the needy out here and help the charities . I also did a lot of work for a lot of charities for years in the UK before I left not just putting money in the charity boxes. All I was doing was reporting a possbible scam and I still think it was a scam.
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quote:
Originally posted by quackers
Don't get me wrong but I give to the needy out here and help the charities . I also did a lot of work for a lot of charities for years in the UK before I left not just putting money in the charity boxes. All I was doing was reporting a possbible scam and I still think it was a scam.
Linda I agree with you I think it is a scam a few people have mentioned this lady in the last few weeks, her husband is sat in a car round the corner.
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Thankyou Mark.
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Bless you for putting it on here Quackers, I don't think you need to defend yourself, all you have done is try to warn people, if they don't want to take that on board, so be it. Thank you from me x
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It is a scam. It has happened to 2 different sets of friends of mine. This Turkish woman says she is a neighbour yet one set of friends live near the old people's home and one set live near the Sunday market! This is a 15 minute walk! The first set gave her the money (because they didn't want a baby to go without milk) and she said she would pay it back the next day as her husband was in Gocek. (It was 10 lira at this point and no money was returned). Several days later the same woman asked my other friends for 20 lira. My second set of friends would have gave the money, had my first set of friends not been at their house at the time!! She is in her 30s, is well dressed and speaks good English. She is very believable. She looks genuinely anguished, I am told. She also has a white car. She is preying on people's good nature and I think it stinks.
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She exploits the feelings of people.
Linda did good that she warned other people against this kind of conmen.
I am surprised how bad minded people can be so creative to steal other people's money.
And it is so sad that, she can use her daughter who is at only 9 for this.
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This also happened to a retired couple nearly in their 70s last week near the pelin hotel.They felt sorry for this women and let her in the house.She asked for 30 lira and when a neigbour entered the house the husband of the Turkish women came up stairs and ushered her out quickly.As she was leaving she said...ok 20 lira.So people dont be nieve.This happens often.iv heard many stories.if you want to give to the neady there are many ways to do it.Yes there are many Turks out of work and struggling but sorry for being hard.There ARE jobs out there.But its easier to knock doors and beg.Sorry a sore point.So id say to all ex pats who worked so hard for their hard earned cash dont fall for these scams.WE have charities here actually run by ex pats for Turkish people.Go through these channels.I for one have given to charities in Turkey but never to any street beggars....How do you know who is geniune or not?You dont.So do as you do in uk and give to chosen charities .
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thanks everyone for clarifying this, as I said before Im a sucker for a sob story and would probably have given her the money.
Its so hard to know what to do when people are begging, I find I have to just not make eye contact, but always feel really mean.
Theres an old lady who sometimes has wood tied to her back and she has been at our gate a couple of times asking for money, we haven't given her any, but did give her some fruit when she approached us when we were walking home from the market.
I saw someone else giving her a food parcel.
Its so hard when you see people going through the bins, but I have no idea what they are after. If I knew I would gladly collect it for them.
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Kaya they are looking for anything to recycle, I always save up my cans and put them in a separate bag usually hang it on The edge of the bin. Anything that has a scrap value and greens for the chickens!
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well they cant have any greens as I'm making my own compost - well trying to,its a sort of sludgy goo at the moment!
Ive noticed they seem to take the cardboard out of the big bins and put it by the side of the bin, but haven't seen any sign of what happens next.
Do they recycle plastic bottles as well?
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They do have a seperate recycling van that comes round if everything hasnt gone before then!
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Usually a van comes by and picks up the cardboard, within a month or so, it's not unusual to look at an ever growing pileof cardboard for several weeks and then suddenly it's gone. Then you have the guy on the troke he takes any scrap which he can sell/ use. The ladies do take the large water bottle fir storing goat milk/ olive oil in. Soundslike your compost could do with some woody stuff/ cardboard.......
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Maybe it is a scam, maybe she earns £20 every half hour and drives a brand new BMW once she's out of sight. My point was more that it would be a real shame if people who are attempting to scam change all of our opinions across the board - because there are very genuine people with very genuine hardship over there.
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And my original post was a response to this
20 lira for milk. What was she doing? Buying a cow.
Was just pointing out baby milk here is expensive
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I can't but help agree with Keith about the current hardship's that the ordinary Joe is experiencing in Turkey at the moment.The unemployment rate in the Fethiye area in the winter is dreadful and there are no state handouts to fall back on.
Without the support of friend's and family many people would starve. Unfortunately, sometimes whole families are in the same situation and the way they have to get by is very humbling.
I know a number of Turkish people and many have told me that because of Tourism, compared to twenty or thirty years ago, Fethiye is now a land of milk and honey. Make's you think!
Sunnyd is really the font of knowlege about all thing's Turkish, not only has she lived in the area for a long time but speaks perfect Turkish. I would appreciate her thought's on the subject. Of course there are scams going on, there always will be someone taking advantage of an opportunity.
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If there is a genuine need for baby milk by mothers it sounds as if a way of providing subsidised milk is needed.Maybe the mothers are not receiving a proper diet and cannot feed babies. This sounds more like a confidence trick though.
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I'm not quite sure what input I can provide on this subject... but I'll have a go :)
With regards to the Turkish woman knocking on doors, saying she is a neighbour and needs money for milk for her child,... well I think that this is a scam.
I do know that money is tight at this time of year, for Turkish people, and probably ex pats too.
Jobs are quite plentiful in the season, but in winter months, (especially if you work within the tourism industry), then jobs are quite hard to come by.
A typical Turkish family,(eg;husband at work, wife at home), may earn around 600TL per month. So that alone makes it very difficult to live. Prices have gone up on everything here, even fruit and veg.
Baby powder milk is expensive in Turkey, but that is not an excuse to go door to door asking for money.
As Hoopsman said there are charities that can be contributed to, and like him I never give money to a beggar. If they say they need bread.. I will buy a loaf and give it to them.
Even after all the years of tourism there is (sadly) still the odd person that thinks ex pats are full of money (or at least, better off than them), and they try it on. It has happened to me, even though I work for money to live, am a single parent with no help from my childs father, and no benefits from the Government.
People ask me about the prospect of Turkey joining the EU, my answer is always the same... if that means that they start to provide benefits then so be it! I can remember when Celal was 1 year old, I had just divorced, and returned to work. I was repping in Fethiye, an English couple had 'a go at me' because I was working, and my child was with a childminder, they said that I should be at home with my son and be claiming. Then I told them that unfortunately there aren't any government benefits in Turkey! This is what needs to change.
I have found it hard living here on a standard wage.... but have never begged.
So, although you will meet people that live hand to mouth, it is hard for them.. but begging isn't the answer... and I for one wouldn't give in to that. I'd find another way to try to help.
This is my personal experience and opinion ;)
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I pretty much agree with all you've said - thank you for your input Nikki.
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Well said sunnyd.
There is no excuse for knocking on doors of total strangers & I too feel it is a scam.
I hope it makes others think just how hard it is for the typical Turkish family to survive- 600TL per month(and that can often just be through the six months "holiday season") - equates to approx £236 per month over a 6 month period or £118 if you have to eek it out over the whole year! Not a lot :(!
I really admire how some families survive - the cost of petrol being more than the UK & electricity being comparable - it's not suprising there are few people with cars & light fittings only have one bulb in a 3/5 bulb shade!
As for baby milk...it is expensive here, as is all baby equipment/clothing. I can never understand why any Mother would feel the need to bottle feed unless there is some medical reason why they can't breast feed.
It's the perfect formula, sterile, on tap (so to speak), easy - it goes where you go - no need for bottles/sterilizing & most important it's free.
Lets hope Turkish women have a change of heart & go back to what is best for baby - "au natural"!
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I agree that breast feeding is a good thing if possible having done so myself but the mother has to be healthy and well fed to do this. On the amount of wages you are speaking about I wonder if the mothers diet is adequate. Protein food such as meat, cheese and eggs are expensive items on a shopping list. If a feeding mother does not have enough calcium in her diet her teeth and bones will be affected and it might also be felt by the baby.At least in Turkey there is plenty of sunlight and yoghurt is not expensive. If an underfed mother feeds a new baby then you end up with both of them suffering.
In Britain we used to have clinics where you could buy subsidised baby milk and things like malt and vitamins. I don't think they exist now but maybe something like that is needed in Turkey if it is not already available.
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I agree with what your saying, but protein can be found in a host of other foods too such as beans,nuts & seeds all of which are plentiful in Turkish food.
I'm sure a simple Turkish diet is far healthier than the majority of English food eaten, if it was analysed spoonful by spoonful.
Bread is also sold cheap...subsidised by the Government...as a "filling agent" in order that the Turkish people don't go hungry.
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I will tell you why the British are targeted for cons abroad. If you find a conman who can give you straight answers and ask them why they conned you/whoever, they will nearly always say the same thing. Because we are easier. Bear that in mind everyone :-\
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
I will tell you why the British are targeted for cons abroad. If you find a conman who can give you straight answers and ask them why they conned you/whoever, they will nearly always say the same thing. Because we are easier. Bear that in mind everyone :-\
Unfotunatly this is true ,only a few weeks ago while in la carihuela/ costa del sol for my valentine weekend we got ripped off from the taxis,a simple 6 euro 5min fare turned into a 30 euro 20min tour of the area. The taxi driver who understood my english when telling what hotel wee wanted to go to all of a sudden did not understand my english when we asked him why it took so long and cost so much.
The following day we spoke to the hotel staff and mentioned what happened only for him to laugh and say its cause your English its easy to con a English person he said( with a smile).
Typical hubby went on a rant and said Im Scottish not bla bla bla!.
With regards to the OP I think I would have gave the money to the lady as the guilt feeling ( young kids ) would have won me over. Scam yes, but only once.
Last year in Icmeler we would pass the same lady with a month old baby begging in the square every night, after a few nights my hubby asked a restaraunt if he paid the cost would they feed her they said yes but would use the money we gave ( 20 ira ) for baby milk and then feed the lady themself. This appeased our guilt slightly,as thats what it felt like for some reason.
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If you go to Benidorm and I am sure many of you will have been before you discovered Turkey.. You will see loads of very poor looking women sitting on the streets around the bars and hotels with a baby in their arms. If you look carefully not always the same baby.!! as pointed out by the locals. They have a pathetic tone of voice which would fool all but the wise. There are the flower sellers who can pick your pockets as fast as look at you. These are not poor by any means. There is a man outside one of the supermarkets with one leg. He sits on the floor all day with his begging bowl. We were there on day when he sent his son across the road to the photo shop to collect 5 envelopes of his hols in Tenerife.!! Just pointing out that where there are holiday makers there are scam merchants. It even goes on in Blackpool. I know they are poorer here but the really poor ones have too much pride and would never beg.
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We were approached by a man on Thursday, near Mcdonalds. He said that he hadn't eaten for days and could we give him some money. As it happens, we had no money with us, as we were just out for a walk. I felt embarrassed not having any money with me.I did notice however that he did not approach any Turkish people.
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quote:
Originally posted by scouser2
We were approached by a man on Thursday, near Mcdonalds. He said that he hadn't eaten for days and could we give him some money. As it happens, we had no money with us, as we were just out for a walk. I felt embarrassed not having any money with me.I did notice however that he did not approach any Turkish people.
He aproached me 2 times as well. One around friday market, one around PTT. He is a kind of beggar.
No need to be embarrassed, he can find a job and work. He prefered lazy and easy way.
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I have been reading this topic with interest, and would like to say my piece. Us, the British,on the whole are known to be sympathetic nation, which, I am sorry to say, some foreigners take advantage of. I and my wife retired to Turkey 5 years ago, after holidaying here for a number of years, and because we fell in love with the place and people. However, after 5 years, I have become very cynical, about the way, that some Turkish people, think I am a soft touch.. Nearly every week, there is someone, who is trying to get their hands on my hard earned, which makes me feel that my dream of retiring to the sun is turning into a nightmare. I would think I am not alone in this. Also, I notice that the charities that are in the Fethiye area, are all started by Ex-Pats, which makes me think, what did the turkish people do before we came along?. Thats my thoughts.
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I do agree with some of that - it does seem that some people target us as an easy touch to try and extract money from. I do suspect it isn't just a Turkey thing, but I've never lived abroad anywhere else so can't be sure on that. In some ways I maybe prefer those who stick their hand out at you saying "para, para" - at least you get a choice...
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Certainly not exclusively a Turkish problem. We have two,at least,regulars in Hamilton who make approaches for cash from strangers. One has the story that he is sleeping rough and is looking for his 'bus fare to get back to his family the other is a young man who approaches people around local churches saying that his girlfriend has thrown him out and he has no money and is looking for the train fare to return to his mother. Both have carried their appeals dozens of times so they must be reasonably successful. On the other hand we have a genuine 'tramp' who bothers no one but does very well from voluntary donations.
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In my local area we have the occasional tramp sitting around but they often come and go which makes me wonder if they travel to get the money or if they disppear to live a normal life for a bit. I've even seen one up in MK near the housing shelter area, so help is literally round the corner from them.
On the other hand we have people that sell the Big Issue in our area and they get much more attention as people know where the money's going and that these people are making a effort in working. I wonder if something similar would be as successful in Turkey?
However I definitely agree with mercury's point that the really poor people never beg
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If you look a the infant mortality rate since 2003 it has dropped over 20per cent in Turkey. Perhaps the increased income from visitors has had some effect on health.
I can understand that it becomes overwhelming the constant demand for charity but at least it can be handled on a full stomach.
Poor old Marie Antionette didn't listen and look what happened to her.
In America they have food programmes and the huge supermarkets donate food among others because even there people struggle at times.
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On the whole we only know this small part of Turkey. Eastern Turkey and some parts of the North are extremely poor Me and my husband have stayed in a Turkish home and 4 days was OK but I couldnt live like that indefinitely.The shower was water boiled on the soba and poured into a large bucket which we mixed with cold for our shower with jugs of water. They continually turn off lights. There was no emersion heater. They ate chicken twice a week but not the chicken we would eat. They were thrilled because we bought them some mince which they usually cant afford. Mostly they live on bread, tomatoes, eggs and salad. soup and pilau rice and yoghurt. They made all their own bread outside in a tandir. There are dozens of tea houses which the men sit in all day. Do you know something they were very happy there because they havent met Europeans and they dont know any different. Apart from their small pensions the older ones are kept by their sons who work in the tourist areas. Maybe it is the desperation for money to keep their families that causes some of them to con the tourists. I dont think that the 20% reduction in infant mortality is anything to do with tourisnm in these areas because they dont have tourism as such. When we satyed there we were treated like royality by everyone in the village. They had never met English people and were contunually stroking.
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Sometimes as in Britain it is the grandparents who are on a regular pension who are helping the younger generation especially if Dad is working in the tourist industry and the grandchildren need caring for in the village. In the winter months the jobs disappear and if the building jobs aren't there then they struggle.
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Tiddly Winks,
'Our' tramp does not ask for help but will accept it when/if offered.How he manages I can only imagine.
As for the sale of The Big Issue,in our area and as far as I can see much of the West of Scotland,it has been taken over by Romanian immigrants.
I wonder if any tax exempt occupation operated by anyone in Turkey other than a Turk would be acceptable to the Turkish Government or the Turkish people?
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"and were continually stroking" well I suppose it's pleasurable and free so its understandable. Or am I missing the point?
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John H, you have a point about immigrants working for the Big Issue, we have two people who do it in our area, an English bloke which many people talk to and a girl who's nationality I can't work out, but from what I see she is avoided more than the guy.
I would get the impression that Turkey wouldn't be as tolerant as we are in terms of immigrants working on a tax exempt occupation - but then again I know nothing about how it's handled there, just a guess.
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Think I would agree with most of what has been said about beggars in Turkey, think the majority of them don't actually need to beg.
Am I right in thinking that the bread shops will give away all the bread that is left at the end of the day? In fact, have seen a shop in Bath do this (all the loaves were left outside plus some cake things, the students went and grabbed them!)
Also don't most of the Turks have big family units whereby they all help each other? Certainly all the villagers I know grow their own fruit/veg, make bread etc. etc.
I think it's mostly town folk who buy at the markets and, I believe, most of the town folk do have some kind of employment. Or am I wrong?
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There was a practice in some bread shops where if you bought a loaf of bread you bought an extra one and donated it to the baker to give away to someone needy. Don't know if that still goes on.
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I meant to say stroking my arms because they had never seen English people. Sorry.
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Yes difficult topic.Im sure every thread has a bit of truth somewhere and we just have to remember not to let folk in our homes and as for the street beggars, treat as you find.
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We have a Big Issue seller here locally and he has been in the same place for about 5 years. He has a little Jack Russell which he has to leave at home as all the kind people over feed him. At the end of the day he never goes home without a bag of food for himself or his doggie. A lovely pleasant chap who has the time of day for everybody. I know I never ever take his mag but always give him £1 when he is there so do most people. My way of thinking is if he can stand outside in the cold, wind, rain etc for 7 hours a day he deserves our help. We now have two Europeans who have turned up with their accordians but very rarely get the time of day as they just sit there playing annoying sounds. Big difference!