Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Bar and Restaurant Questions and Discussions => Topic started by: farmer on April 23, 2011, 17:54:34 PM
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I have just read an article in the Aegean Independent newspaper entitled "Price Fixing In Calis Beach".
It would seem that some organisation called the Calis Bar and Restaurant Association has, through its chairman, issued a decree as of May this year that ALL Calis Bars will adopt a common pricing policy with regards to the cost of Efes beer and bottled Water. And it would seem also to call for a general across the board increase of 15% for food items.
The unidentified source of this information ( or, this being Calis, rumour ) goes on to intimate that Anybody in that association selling for less will suffer the consequences [whatever they are] and Anybody not in the association will be reported to the association who will challenge that bar and "ensure they comply".
I once in the past challenged the ethics of a similar diktat from this Cabal, mainly with regard to the price of Efes, and it engendered a very lively and protracted debate on this site. Keith will remember it well, I'm sure!
I did not subscribe to the previously stated arguments from this Cabal that an imposed increase in prices would automatically result in higher standards of service and conditions in Calis bars, and have not changed my mind since.
I know perfectly well who the leading light behind the Calis Bar and Restaurant Association is. I sincerely hope he does not get his own way in forcing or enforcing their demands.
As an Ex-Pat I realise that I cannot realistically challenge his efforts. Except of course, by affecting his business. And this would have to be done in a perfectly legal and proper manner, without " bad-mouthing" him or his business ethics.
Before I go into detail I would very much like to hear other CBF Forum's members thoughts on the Aegean Independent article.
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Adopting any common pricing policy (price fixing) is wrong in my view.
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quote:
Originally posted by farmer
Keith will remember it well, I'm sure!
I most certainly do, I can't imagine CBF without these debates :)
My opinion remains unchanged, I am against price fixing or cartels but when idiotic Brits put £20,000 or more into a bar that is gone within a year, things are seriously wrong. And there are more than a few examples of that. Competition is so fierce that people aren't making any money. How that is good for Calis is beyond me.
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There are problems opening the Aegean Independant. Maybe it is me but I read someone else was having problems too.There was also a site which gave details on the Turkish Economy in English which was on the forum and that will not open either.
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Yes Daffodil, that was me, i still can't open it to read it :-(
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Perhaps if we knew who it was we could stop going there, ;)
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Or maybe we should all support the ones who are not members - if there are any that dare stay out.
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Isn't the problem that some bars etc charge to little for beer? Anywhere not making at least 50% GP is surely using the price as a lost leader which is detrimental to all others concerned!?
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I would suspect that the only businesses in Calis that operate on a genuine 50% GP are those of the itinerant Sunglasses an Fake Perfume sellers. And at that, on a very low turnover.
I entirely agree with Keith that when idiot Brits put £20,000 or more into a bar that is gone within a year, things are seriously wrong. And in some cases competition is so fierce that people aren't making any money. Well, in some cases that is.
It does seem to me to be that there are certainly no fewer Bars on Calis prom and main street area than there were some 5 or 6 years ago, and there has not been a great increase in the number of visitors. There has been a significant increase in the number of bars in the nether regions for example Baris Manco Bulvari and the Sunday Market area, and these newish business all seem to be prospering nicely. Probably due to good management practises.
Maybe the number of Bars in the Calis area now exceeds saturation point, and some of those on the prom and Calis centre area are not effectively managed, so go broke.
As I have said before - relating to prices - and not neccessarily just of Efes:D
When faced with equally convenient Petrol Stations in the UK, do you deliberately go to the one that charges the most per litre, so as to prevent the alternative from going out of business due to being " undercut ". ?
I just might use a filling station in the UK which has dearer prices if I got a better service, say the sort of service you get here in Turkey where all the garages give attended service and offer a free car wash whenever you have a £10 or £20 fill up:
But in the light of the fact that this does not happen in the UK, I simply go for the cheapest price.
But in Bars here in Calis not all standards of service and "ambience" are the same. Which may, as well as in cases of poor management, account for why some Bars, charging almost identical prices for drinks and food, and in very similar locations, go out of business quite quickly.
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Like most on here I do not condone price fixing by a "cartel" but if a well intentioned organisation was to offer price fixing as a solution to bars all to quickly going out of business then in theory that would work. All the bars and restaurants would be forced to concentrate on the whole experience and not just the cost. Those bars not giving the same level of experience would start losing money due to lack of custom so would be forced to break rank and reduce prices in the hope of gaining a bigger share of the market.
I personally would rather pay a few lira more and go to a place that works that little bit harder on ensuring I have a great time. From what I can tell most holiday makers are generally of the same mind. I guess the ex-pat fraternity might have a different view however.
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I am the owner of a bar and restaurant in calis and i do not agree that some organization should tell me what to charge for alchol or food but what I do not agree is that whoever wrote the message in the aegean paper is wrong to say that we choose to close for 6 months and have a holiday therefore the staff have to leave and they need the work. If I could open in the winter I would but I tried it for 1 month 2 years ago and found it was not cost effective and to say that we rip people off is wrong I wish there was a name to the person who spoke out to the newspaper.
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Piscoe
Price fixing will not stop bars going out of business. In fact it could mean more will fold as people who have their own houses will probably buy more from the supermarkets and drink at home. It's certainly happened in the UK as more and more pubs shut due to people drinking at home.
There isn't a bottomless pit of money to be spent on going out and enjoying oneself - even on holiday.
What will probably happen is that there will be some sort of price fixing agreement which will last a few weeks. Then some will break rank and offer 'Happy Hours' or whatever to drag in custom. Maybe even go down the route of a free drink with your meal or like they did in my local last saturday - a free meal with your drink!
Bottom line is there are far too many places chasing too few customers and the ones who do well will usually be the ones who offer the best overall experience. Cheap doesn't mean best but in some circumstances it will attract custom (not always the right type of custom though).
We had some cheap and chearful nights out last summer but unfortunatley the experience wasn't always good.
I am of the opinion that if they do fix prices then those doing so will have to fight even harder for my custom.
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Come lets name those involved in the Association and those not so we can make an informed choice.
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I have a cunning plan to thwart the cartel. If everyone one of us stopped drinking in bars for a week or two ..... just spotted first flaw in the plan.
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In reply to Piscoe, I actually do not believe the organisation is "well intentioned". I firmly believe it to be a self centered cabal who believe their own publicity that what they are doing is in the best interests of Calis, but have really a protectionist attitude towards the businesses owned or managed by many of their members.
Many of these are already charging the prices they suggest others should charge.
I too thought the plan by Amca was cunning until I realised the drawback. Now may I suggest a possible alternative?
If enough like minded souls could be minded to get together at the same time for a common purpose, we could probably register our feelings about the price fixing in the most friendly way.
Say by visiting the premises of one of the principal protagonists all at the same time during their busiest period of their season, and all order one of their 5 TL beers. And occupy all their service / consumption area spaces. And spend say all afternoon or evening over just the one beer each. After all, if their proclaimed superior service and ambience is so very good why on earth should we want to go elsewhere?
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Good points Farmer. From my point of view though I think I know quite a few places that will not bow to this cartel pressure and I will no doubt spend most of my budget in those places. I am however well up for the one drink over a few hours idea - if only to have a chat ;-)
Place and time would be good but lets not make it public - maybe some discrete emails would be a good idea :)
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It's all nonsense. Even if it was possible for each and every bar and restaurant in the area to sign up to this, which it isn't, one would see the rewards of breaking ranks and would do so. A domino effect across town in next to no time would follow. I see the need for businesses to make a decent return, sadly a lot of them can't distinguish between profit and turnover. There really is no story here.
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Well Keith, I have to assume your last post on this topic was in response to my post at 21.43. I did not ask each and every bar to participate in my suggestion. I said "like minded souls". As there have been few posts on this topic by persons identifying themselves as owners of bars and restaurants, but many self admitted users of such premises, I would have thought it self evident as to whom my idea was aimed.
And if you see, in regard to businesses here, that "sadly a lot of them can't distinguish between profit and turnover." then I respectfully suggest that those businesses do not deserve to survive There really is a story here.
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Not actually in response to your post of 21.43, more in response to the initial proposal. Such a scheme can only work if every Efes outlet signs up - and that is not possible. Undercutting next door is a national sport be it Efes, handbags or chicken doners. The temptation to drop prices from 5 to 4 lira (not that anyone has mentioned a figure of 5 lira but just for illustration) will simply be too much for those who don't see any improvement to their trade under this scheme (and many won't of course).
I agree with your point that the businesses who can distinguish between profit and turnover deserve to go bust. Over the years many of them did just that.
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The same thing actually happened in Hisaronu I think it was last year. Most bars fixed their prices to 4.5TL per effes.
It did not last too long if I remember correctly. Bars should be allowed to charge what they want so long as they publish their prices in my opinion.
Us as the customer can be the judge of wether you are getting value for money or not.
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Out of interest, do you know what caused it to be short lived there?
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They have been trying to fix the price of an Efes in Hisaronu as long as I can remember - every year it was the same and lasted all of about 5 minutes... it just doesn't work!
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Out of interest, do you know what caused it to be short lived there?
Not sure Keith. It doesn't bother me really I'm not one for spending my hols searching out where I can save a few kuros on beer. Also with 2 kids in tow its not the cost of the beer that empties the wallet its the extortionate cost of soft drinks, Large coke or sprite is 5-7 TL in a lot of places.
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Tell me about it - over 3 quid in some places for a UHT milkshake :-\
But back to topic, Calis will be no different to Hisaronu on minimum or agreed prices - when people see that it's a great theory but they aren't making any money, they'll break ranks and the scheme is over...
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Forget the price of Effes... large coca cola 5tl,
But hey.. good food, good weather, great views, lovely people.
That's great value.
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Just asked the other half and he said yes it is true the prices have to be fixed this year in Calis
Noticed also in Fethiye that the dayboat trips 12 islands etc are advertising at 50tl, last year 20tl, was told this is the price they all must charge this year, theyve also had to upgrade the boats with seperate men and Womens loos and provide a changing room, cant see that 50tl price lasting for long either :-\
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quote:
Originally posted by bewva
quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
Out of interest, do you know what caused it to be short lived there?
its the extortionate cost of soft drinks, Large coke or sprite is 5-7 TL in a lot of places.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Really [?]
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I can't remember to be honest but most definitely a very basic milkshake made with UHT milk and a spoonful or Nesquik was between 6 and 7 lira in many places in Calis - a ridiculous price, especially when you need to order two :-\
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It gives an insight into why some families are tempted by all inclusive deals - kids need lots to drink here especially in the height of summer and they can't be expected to drink only water.
2 kids x 5 drinks at say 6TL is 60TL (£24) per day
£24 x 14 is £336 just on drinks!