Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: nichola on July 09, 2011, 11:51:47 AM
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As the title says who knows the origins of the expression "chock a block"
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You forgot to say NO GOOGLING nichola
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you have my permission to google to your hearts content ;)
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its to do with the airplane chocks for stopping the wheels from rolling on.
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No I thought that at first but I think that is where "chocks away" came from...
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"Chock-a-block is actually a fairly widely known North American term, I'm told. I know it well and would use it, though there's a faint air of being slightly out of date about it. In Britain, it's now common to hear the abbreviated forms chocka (or chocker), which are both from World War Two services' slang, and in Australia the closely related chockers.
Chock here is the same word as in chock-full, jam-packed full or filled to overflowing. One meaning of chock in the nineteenth century was of two things pressed so tightly against each other that they can't move. This led to the nautical term that's the direct origin of the phrase. Block refers to the pulley blocks of the tackle used for various hauling jobs on board ship. These worked in pairs, with the ropes threaded between them. When the men hauling tackle ropes had hoisted the load as far as it would go, the two pulley blocks touched and could move no further. They were then said to be chock-a-block, or crammed together.
The origin of chock is complicated and not altogether understood. It's clear that there has been some cross-fertilisation between it and chock in the sense of a lump of wood used as a wedge to stop something moving. That's closely enough related to our sense to make it seem as though it might be the same word. But the experts think that chock in chock-a-block actually came from chock-full.
That has been around at least since 1400. It comes from a different source, the verb chokken, as in the Middle English phrase chokken togeder, crammed together. This in turn may be from an Old French verb choquier, to collide or thrust. One of the problems of working out the origin has been that chock-full has appeared in several different spellings — including chuck-full and choke-full — reflecting users' uncertainty about where it comes from."
Courtesy of 'World Wide Words'
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cho3.htm
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I thought it meant "full"
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you beat me Eric.
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I thought the origins were from sailing boats - the block being the pulley and to chock a block was to jam a wedge in to secure it.
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As killing wild animals is not seen as a noble activity to many these days, hunting trophies such as stag heads to mount on your wall are no longer seen as tasteful or acceptable. People on safari are no longer allowed to take part of the animals and some clients were disappointed that they would no longer have something to show their friends back home to show their hunting and shooting prowess. Countries such as Kenya are very poor and can't provide silver cups and shields so decided to use natural resources to make awards. Using locally grown cocoa beans they made chocolate and used moulds to make small versions of wild animals for their clients to keep - if they shot a wild animal, they would get a little sweet version as a prize.
Hence the phrase "choc gazelle" :D
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I have given you a clue 8)
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Fishies?
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Nichola says she has given a clue. She has also posted it the Turkish Discussion Forum. Perhaps this is the clue and she is suggesting its origin is Turkish? I have found one internetter who thinks this is possible says it (may) come from "çok kalabalik" (cram full of fish). Nobody else seems to agree with this - except possibly Turkish etymologists to whom I have not referred. The vast majority of opinion points to a nautical origin - two blocks running close together in a tackle.
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I'm guessing it's not anything to do with a big bar of Cadbury's then? ...or is that 'block o'choc'?
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You Beauty, Keith,:D love it, just LUV IT!!:D:D
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The literal meaning of çok kalabalik is "full of fish": the fish in question being a particular Mediterranean species. çok is pronounced as "chock" and not "cock". Given the fact that etymologists when in doubt tend to pin things on the nautical world and the fact that there was a huge amount of trade between Istanbul and the West around the time that this phrase entered English, this seems quite plausible. If the phrase did enter English this way, it is unlikely that people would have written the fact down. So yes, possible.
(Stolen by Scunner)
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I have some blocks of Cadbury's chocolate (thank you June) melting in the fridge it's so hot here... Nothing to do with the topic though ;)
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before I go out for the day - there are some (more than one) clues in some of the answers and Colwyns right about why I psoted in this section.
A little bit of lateral thinking (about what I won't say now)and you could come up with a translation that fits a time :D
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I fear you are going to have to reveal all nichola (figuratively speaking of course) :)
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OK H
The expression "cok a blok" is Turkish and was an expression used by Turks during the first World War to descibe their conditions in the trenches (packed in like sardines) hence "chock a block" :)
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Nichola, a number of sources find the phrase used in English from the mid-19th century onwards. What evidence do you have for your version of the origin? I looked up "blok" and it seems to be a Turkified form of "block" and used with the same meanings it has in English. Does it have some other meaning?
Is this one of Ataturk's claims to support the view that the reason why Turkish has so many words that appear in other languages (Indian, Persian, Arabic, French, German, English) is that Turkey is the 'mother tongue' of all languages.
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Found this: Chock a block from Turkish çok kalabalik. From this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Turkic_origin :D
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It is something I read somewhere and just remembered because I thought it was interesting. I think that it might have been in the book A Fez of the Heart - Jeremy Seal
When I googled chock a block I couldn't find a definitive answer and it does seem to be used to describe a number of situations.
I also found the info that Eric posted and there was the reference to the 1st & 2nd WW and this seemed to fit.
Whether it has anything to do with Ataturk claim I don't know but Turkish does indeed have many words from other languages.
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Chock-a-block
Meaning
Crammed so tightly together as to prevent movement.
Origin
This term is old and has a nautical origin.
Chock:
The derivation of chock isn't entirely clear but the word is thought to have come from chock-full (or choke-full), meaning 'full to choking'. This dates back to the 15th century and is cited in Morte Arthur, circa 1400:
"Charottez chokkefulle charegyde with golde."
This meaning was later used to give a name to the wedges of wood which are used to secure moving objects - chocks. These chocks were used on ships and are referred to in William Falconer's, An universal dictionary of the marine, 1769:
"Chock, a sort of wedge used to confine a cask or other weighty body..when the ship is in motion."
Block:
This is where seafaring enters into the story. A block and tackle is a pulley system used on sailing ships to hoist the sails. It might be expected that 'chock-a-block' is the result of wedging a block fixed with a chock. That doesn't appear to be the case. The phrase describes what occurs the system is raised to its fullest extent - when there is no more rope free and the blocks jam tightly together. Frederick Chamier's novel The Life of a Sailor, 1832 includes this figurative use of the term:
"Here my lads is another messmate..." - What, another!" roared a ruddy-faced midshipman of about eighteen. "He must stow himself away, for we are chock-a-block here."
We might expect to find a reference to it in relation to ship's equipment before any figurative use, but the earliest I've found is in Richard H. Dana Jr's Two years before the mast, 1840:
"Hauling the reef-tackles chock-a-block."
Chock-a-block also spawned an abbreviated version in the 20th century - chocka (or chocker). This is WWII UK military slang meaning 'fed-up or disgruntled' - as defined in Hunt and Pringles' Service Slang, 1943:
"Chocker, this is the sailor's way of saying he is fed up or browned off."
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Does this mean Brenda was right all the time H :o
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Chocks is a gypsy word for shoes and the block is the metal anvil on which the cobbler repairs his shoes, so when people come to him in a rush for repairs, he would use the phrase 'chock a block' meaning you will have to wait...
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I find the Turkish connection the least plausible of the explanations offered (the dates are wrong) and the nautical one - boringly, the usual one - to be the most plausible.
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It's Mandarin for badger-baiting - a most cluel sport.