Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum => Topic started by: fletch on August 19, 2011, 09:56:29 AM
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Are property prices in the area really suffering that much? Our estate agent has just informed us of a received offer for our property of 25% less than the asking price. The asking price is well in line with other properties on their books and is in fact lower than most equivalent specification.
The thing that has made me ask the question is that the estate agent hasn't even tried to negotiate with the potential buyer and has advised us that we should accept. I thought it was the Euro zone that was in trouble? of course there must be a backlash on other countries and I'm sure Turkey is one of them but when prices have risen in the capital by 1% it shows that they might not be affected as much.
The Euro zone is now becoming so expensive that people will soon flock to the likes of Turkey where they will get so much more for their money. The exchange rate @ 2.8TL to the £1 should encourage holiday makers to at the very least give Turkey a go!
Maybe things are that bad there and I am just unaware but it sure looks like I will be a property owner for a little longer. I just feel a little let down by the estate agent in that they haven't pointed out the positives for this particular client but instead have taken the attitude that we should be grateful of an offer and just accept it.
Never mind, onwards and upwards!! ;):D
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Sadly everyone is trying it on in these testing times fletch - the Turkish never want to pay the asking price for anything and the Brits and other Europeans are quickly joining them in that respect when it comes to property. My belief is that people who make an offer on a property are either 1% into it or 99% there already - rejecting their first offer finds out if their heart is already sold on it or whether it's just another nob who thinks he's Donald Trump.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
rejecting their first offer finds out if their heart is already sold on it or whether it's just another nob who thinks he's Donald Trump.
PMSL :D
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I'm in exactly the same position. Mine has been up for sale for well over a year. Most offers have been for far less than I paid, despite having security bars, leaving air con, newly decorated, water heater, phone line all put in, and i'm stil asked what other goods am I leaving. Which is none, as I want to get another place somewhere in Turkey. I've had 3 offers close to my very minimum, but i'm holding out. Also unfortunate to say, some agents have even told possible buyers my very minimum price even before a viewing. It seems many buyers think we must be desperate. Some of the reasons given for offering such a low price is beyong belief, such as.....but my car has lost value in the last 4 years or I can buy a bigger and newer place for less just round the corner. I won't repeat my replies to those.
quote:
Originally posted by fletch
Are property prices in the area really suffering that much? Our estate agent has just informed us of a received offer for our property of 25% less than the asking price. The asking price is well in line with other properties on their books and is in fact lower than most equivalent specification.
The thing that has made me ask the question is that the estate agent hasn't even tried to negotiate with the potential buyer and has advised us that we should accept. I thought it was the Euro zone that was in trouble? of course there must be a backlash on other countries and I'm sure Turkey is one of them but when prices have risen in the capital by 1% it shows that they might not be affected as much.
The Euro zone is now becoming so expensive that people will soon flock to the likes of Turkey where they will get so much more for their money. The exchange rate @ 2.8TL to the £1 should encourage holiday makers to at the very least give Turkey a go!
Maybe things are that bad there and I am just unaware but it sure looks like I will be a property owner for a little longer. I just feel a little let down by the estate agent in that they haven't pointed out the positives for this particular client but instead have taken the attitude that we should be grateful of an offer and just accept it.
Never mind, onwards and upwards!! ;):D
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There is a good point in all of this - agents do tend to find reasons why your property is not selling, what needs doing to it to make it sell, why it is no longer worth what you are asking. In other words, spend more money on it so you can get an offer of less than you wanted! I wonder if that takes up more of their thinking (and therefore how they project it to potential customers) rather than seeking out it's unique and positive points and having great answers ready to buyer's objections.
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It is supply and demand. There are too many houses for sale. A few years ago it was mainly new developments and now there is also a growing secondhand market. Developers are very keen to get rid of the properties that they have built and been unoccupied for a number of years. Near where we lived in Ovacik there is a development that has houses that were built four years ago and never been sold. They are on the market for around £140k but an estate agent friend told me last week if I offered over £100k they would bite my hand off.
Although some Russians and Turks are buying property the void left by the British has never been filled. The Fethiye market is very much linked to the UK economy and people do not have the funds or the confidence to purchase abroad.Turkey is like most other European countries. The Brits in France and Spain trying to sell their properties have to take serious drops in prices and finish up in loss situations.
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As Gerry said it is probably the fact that there are so many places up for sale that it gives the impression everyone is desperate to sell in such a buyers market and to try it on with offers. I sometimes think half of Fethiye is up for sale by the amount of 'For Sale' signs posted around the various places and it's is even worse in some certain areas with competition. The truth is a lot of places are being built with a for no particular market by builders and then lay empty as they cannot sell them. Yes some sales go through at cut throat prices and then everyone is on the look for the same bargain deal.In the UK it is now a very norm in some areas to knock 20k of any asking price and agents tell you this up front and price market it with a knowledge to expect this, maybe thats what we will see in Turkey as well particularly with English buyers adopting the same market attitude, the problem is the properties are not being marketed in Turkey with this mark up in the first place thus the cheeky bids are even more cheeky!
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quote:
Originally posted by corbindallas
In the UK it is now a very norm in some areas to knock 20k of any asking price
I had my flat on the market recently, asking price of £129,950 which was "priced to sell" as I wanted to bring my pennies to Turkey, after 3 months the single offer was £100k & that was from a "landlord" to add to his buy to let portfolio.
The UK suffers as well however looking at some of the ads on here I think nowhere near as much as Turkey, can't believe stuff on here for that length of time & reduced but not selling, certainly a buyers market in 2011.
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We have had our place on the market for ages but only seriously pushed for the last 18months (wrong time). we have had offers, I am not playing the silly mind games, if it takes forever then so be it, When the market kicks back in and property prices rise then ours will remain the same, we are in no hurry, although it would be nice, it owes us nothing, no mortgage or loan, in the meantime I still have my home in Turkey.
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Yes there definitely is a world of difference between wanting to sell and needing to sell. I also find property is like buses - I have had properties on the books hang around for months and sometimes a year or two - then it gets sold, and immediately afterwards everyone seems to want one the same and there aren't any for sale. That might not be like buses now I have thought about it, but you get the idea.
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quote:
Originally posted by col
I've had 3 offers close to my very minimum, but i'm holding out. Also unfortunate to say, some agents have even told possible buyers my very minimum price even before a viewing.
That is really not playing cricket - or possibly they thought your minimum price was your very minimum price less 20% !
I think everyone need's to make sure they don't sell for a low price and then pay market value for their next purchase.
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Some very interesting points there, none better than the ref to Mr Trump:D:D
I am in the position of having both my UK & Turkey homes on the market. Just recently the house 2 door down from me sold, exactly the same build albeit a longer driveway but it has not been modernised to anywhere near the standard of our home and our house was priced at £8k less? For the life of me I cannot understand how that sold over ours? I just think that for whatever reason they wanted that particular house and were willing to pay the price, what I have trouble in accepting is that they have gained an extra car parking space! we have recently spent £12k on the bathroom and £15k on the kitchen not to mention having the rest of the house professionally decorated but the buyers never even looked at our home? It really is a funny market place indeed!!
Lets go back to the Turkey situation, Keith raised a good point about agents approaching the sale with a positive attitude. Our potential buyer is believed to be Turkish and wants to live in the property with his family, with this in mind I think it maybe safe to say that this could rule out most properties that have holiday makers stay in them as our block is now almost fully Turkish owned. It is enclosed with mountain views and no fear that any building work could be done in the future. There is a pool, which the other owners say they don't use so won't contribute (Yeh right!) The school is within walking distance or the bus will pick up at the door if required. It is my opinion that if the buyer really does want it for his own personal use then it should place us in a stronger position IF, the agent has a positive approach to sales. Anyone can give something away and take a smaller commission and it seems that some agents are content to do that, I would like an agent that has a battle plan in mind and that can handle and overcome any potential objections. If the agents were more sales minded rather than order takers then this may well strengthen the market a little and eliminate any potential Donald Trumps?
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I need to go out (first time since February) but I would quickly say that the wannabee Donald Trumps are a relatively new thing - when I first started customers were more people with a dream to buy in the sun and your job was to take them, find the dream property and hold their hand through the fairly alien process. More recently, customers are often insufferable know-it-alls who you can't advise on anything at all, they are the property expert not you; you ferry them from property to property and at each one take a derisory offer that you are duty bound to make known to the vendor. Turkey is attracting amateur property magnates who have the swagger of success and the brain of a budgie.
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Those are 2 telephone conversations that I had with Turkish people
Me : Hello
Caller : There is a house for sale here.
Me : Which one, as we have signs on more than a place.
Caller : Yellow one
Me : Can you please tell the location
Caller : Around market area. How much ?
Me : 40 k
Caller : Is it last price ?
Me : Yes
Caller : How many bedrooms has that villa ?
Me : It is not a villa it is an apartment
Caller : Click
Or
Caller : There is a villa for sale here
Me : Which one
Caller : Blue one around bird sancutary, what is the price
Me : 190 k
Caller : Can it be for 100 k
Me : ??? It cant be. Do you want to see inside
Caller : Click
Unfortunatelly some Turkish people who come from cities, think that Fethiye is the cheapest place in Turkey and try to get something more than a bargain. There is a Turkish saying for that kind of people "Bos mezarci" means free gravers, if they find an empty & free grave, they get in.
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We just call them cheap assoles Cenk. :D
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I have always believed in fair business and have always in the past made fair offers, maybe I'm the fool!![:o)]
Our agent received an offer, they should've made us aware of the offer but followed up by advising us to return to the buyer with a smaller reduced figure to see (a) what kind of reaction the buyer gave and (b) to test the commitment level. This was not the case as they came back to us with the offer with the advice of take it, you can bet on your life that they had informed the buyer of what to offer in the first instance.
Maybe I'm wrong but it maybe the case that I will perform a mystery shop on the agent in a few weeks to see what they advise me? Of course I will have a couple of properties in mind so that I can throw them off the track. ;)
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Two potential Turkish buyers actually tried to negotiate, Via a phone call from an agent, a lowest price on our villa without even seeing it? Both given a short "polite" reply....lol
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That's 4 potential buyers then as Cenk's two examples were also offers made on properties that they hadn't even been inside, and I know he has lots more examples, as do I :-\
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I think, and I am goinig to think very hard before I write(or have another G&T)That many owners percetions are different that buyers.
I see 2 & 3 bed villas in Chalis and 3 bed apartments, dicounted to 40- 60 thousand. At the same time I see similar (looking only) up the mountain for 150,000.
Now I know thw one up the mountain is bigger but 100 grand bigger I doubt. Of course that is not what the owner thinks and I appreciate that.
But if you have to seel to offload, then maybe you suffer a loss. If you can hang on, maybe, just maybe, you might be ok. However this climate can last another 5 years plus and so many people are discounting that this will effect the market overall.
We purchased our house 3 years ago, two double bedrooms , 1 and a halfe bathrooms, garden, fruit trees, private although overlooked.
Less than 150 meters from the small dolly station in Fethiye. Eight mins walk to the water and 15 to the Marina.
I am informed that it is now worth 2.5 the times we paid for it 3 years previously. (If someone wants to buy that is.) But this is double what a 5 bed villa gets up the mountain.
So what is reality, I don't know, and if I did, then I would probably not worry about getting a new job.
If you need the cash, take the offfer when you get it. Or wait two years and accept maybe a lower offer. ( A couple of friends have done this over the last 2 years)
Regards
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I learned a long time ago that very few things in Turkey have a price, like the market you barter and if you think something is good value for money then you buy it, but don't tell anyone what you paid, because if you do, some smart person will tell you that you could of bought it cheaper. Of course, those same smart people never ever pointed you the direction of the cheaper deal in the first place!
I think you have to take the same approach to selling your property today, we Brits think that property must rise in value over time, this of course does not follow in Calis, today the new build empty/unsold properties for sale probably outnumber the total number of properties that existed in Calis only several years ago, so why should we expect great returns on a property we have bought just because it was bought xxxx years ago?
We had a chat on the forum recently about investing GBP into TL and the relationship between inflation, interest and devaluation of your original investment, for me, this discussion added a further dimension in the fact that you have to take the interest earned on your investment into consideration.
So when selling your property, I think you must also take into account the value of the holidays you and friends and family have enjoyed plus any rental income gained and if you overlay this with the massive glut of available property, you may not think that a financial loss on your original investment is such a bad deal?
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One of the problems for a large number of us is that we bought property when the price was rising and the market was reaching its peak. In the years since there has been a correction in prices and the cost of a property has come down.This is a way of life. How many times have we all lived through the boom and bust in the housing market in the UK. Every 15 years we seem to have this correction that lasts for about 5 years and then it is back to hyper inflation in the housing market and when the next crash arrives property is 20% higher than at the start of the previous crash.
In many cases people have been taken in by the hype of being told that their investment in the Turkish housing market will grow by 25% a year. They are still telling us Turkey is the place to invest. TV programmes like a Place in the Sun are notorious for broadcasting such figures.
In many European countries there have been significant falls in the value of property and I do not think that these price corrections have been fully reflected in prices in the Fethiye area.At least in public, it is very unusual to see a developer in Turkey drop their prices.They may in private be willing to take an offer. Continuing to build and add more property to the housing stock is even going to make it worse. If I was a Brit coming out to Turkey I would not pay the prices being asked as I would expect the price to reflect what has happened to the TL.Paying for a house in sterling is actually putting the price up by 25% based on last year.So a house bought for £100k today is approx 290k in TL which last year was 230k. The developer is making an even bigger profit. Many Brits complain when restaurants quote their prices in sterling but they are happy to pay for a house in sterling.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rimms
So when selling your property, I think you must also take into account the value of the holidays you and friends and family have enjoyed plus any rental income gained and if you overlay this with the massive glut of available property, you may not think that a financial loss on your original investment is such a bad deal?
I think the point you have highlighted only brings us to terms with any potential loss and by counting the holidays etc it may ease our pain of any such loss. Surely there is a market value? I don't have to count up the days I have lived/used my UK home to be grateful of a loss as there is a market value. :)
Albeit, I have already started counting up the holidays etc etc to help me justify their offer, I soon stopped myself. The thing about property is that it is all down to 'Location, Location & Location'and my thoughts are that if this family want to live in a Turkish area with no holiday makers which is close to all amenities then they will have to up the offer, if not then they can't afford it! :)
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quote:
Originally posted by Rimms
So when selling your property, I think you must also take into account the value of the holidays you and friends and family have enjoyed plus any rental income gained and if you overlay this with the massive glut of available property, you may not think that a financial loss on your original investment is such a bad deal?
I think the point you have highlighted only brings us to terms with any potential loss and by counting the holidays etc it may ease our pain of any such loss. Surely there is a market value? I don't have to count up the days I have lived/used my UK home to be grateful of a loss as there is a market value. :)
Albeit, I have already started counting up the holidays etc etc to help me justify their offer, I soon stopped myself. The thing about property is that it is all down to 'Location, Location & Location'and my thoughts are that if this family want to live in a Turkish area with no holiday makers which is close to all amenities then they will have to up the offer, if not then they can't afford it! :)
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You know the position here Ian, and it's not as if my top price is over inflated, far from it. When you look at properties from different agents and other selling sources there is no average what so ever. I have seen similar apt's to ours up for sale at anything between 5k to 10k more, yet again, have also seen one or two for a few thousand less. The biggest laugh for a possible sale here was one agent trying to justify that all older apt's are worth less form when they were built, and mine is worth 5k less because that's the situation. But he could not answer why an apt built here over 10 years ago and at that time must have been very cheap, was up for sale at a similar price to mine. When I pointed out that on his same website, without garden and pool, and you could see the damp on the outside walls, again, no reply. When I mentioned is it because i'm a British seller and you think i'm desperate to sell, he walked out.
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Originally posted by Ian
quote:
Originally posted by col
I've had 3 offers close to my very minimum, but i'm holding out. Also unfortunate to say, some agents have even told possible buyers my very minimum price even before a viewing.
That is really not playing cricket - or possibly they thought your minimum price was your very minimum price less 20% !
I think everyone need's to make sure they don't sell for a low price and then pay market value for their next purchase.
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I remember coming to Fethiye/Calis area just over 10 years ago and looking at some property - there was some lovely small villas for £15,000 - £20,000 - I went back to my friends in the UK and suggested we all chip in £5000 and buy one as an investments/somewhere to holiday and offered to buy their share for the same price + 20% when I decided to move. So they would have had somewhere to holiday, a cut of the rental income and their money back and 20% profit when I came to live here - they thought it was too risky. Those villas have increased in value - and I think if you purchased when prices were really low you will have made a profit - there are too many new apartments going up and some with crazy prices - there are 6 new apartments near me - no sign of a buyer and the builder is now renting them out long term. from what I have seen of Turkish buyers they don't like to be in debt and the average person won't take a mortgage - so if they make an offer they usually have the cash to hand over and the sale can be completed very quickly. I know people that have been trying to sell for 2 years and more - everyones circumstances are different - if you don't need the money and can afford to wait for the right offer then do - if you are desperate to release the cash you may have to accept a lower offer. If only we could predict the future :-)
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
That's 4 potential buyers then as Cenk's two examples were also offers made on properties that they hadn't even been inside, and I know he has lots more examples, as do I :-\
Another one (again Turkish)
Me: That villa's price is 150.000 GBP
Caller: Wow it is too much. Is it negotiable
Me: Maybe. I have to speak with owners. Up to how much do you think to spend ?
Caller: My budget is around 100.000 TL
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quote:
Originally posted by cenk
quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
That's 4 potential buyers then as Cenk's two examples were also offers made on properties that they hadn't even been inside, and I know he has lots more examples, as do I :-\
Another one (again Turkish)
Me: That villa's price is 150.000 GBP
Caller: Wow it is too much. Is it negotiable
Me: Maybe. I have to speak with owners. Up to how much do you think to spend ?
Caller: My budget is around 100.000 TL
Cenk - how do you stay sane, calm and keep smiling - it would drive me mad :)
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Ian
Believe me it is hard, but I have to :)
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We had a couple view our apartment. He made an offer of 40% of our asking price, so we obviously said no. As we were showing him out he asked if he could buy our curtains!!
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I have heard, and have no idea if there is any truth in it, that as from 2013 there will be no more new building of homes allowed. Reason being that the councils don't want it to get like Spain. Although from the comments above it would seem as if we are already there.
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Absolute rubbish.