Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum

General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Scunner on November 21, 2011, 16:28:54 PM

Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Scunner on November 21, 2011, 16:28:54 PM
What would be more correct in the tag line above - till or 'til?

(One for Uncle Colwyn perhaps :D )
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: tinkerman on November 21, 2011, 16:39:31 PM
until
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Colwyn on November 21, 2011, 16:46:34 PM
I have always used till. My dictionary says that the terms till and until (as meant here) are interchangeable; each is a word in its own right. Thus there is no need to treat the shorter word as an abbreviation of the longer and hence no need to spell it 'til.

P.S. Don't let Tykes tell you that the word should by "while"; this only applies in the culturally deprived regions of Yorkshire.
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: kayakebab on November 21, 2011, 16:58:37 PM
I would use'til but anywayits grammAr.  :)
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Colwyn on November 21, 2011, 17:04:04 PM
That's why Scunner wrote "sick" - presumably being quite well aware that the word should have been "sic"!
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Scunner on November 21, 2011, 17:20:18 PM
Maybe I am two confusing  ;)
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Colwyn on November 21, 2011, 17:39:53 PM
And confused to.
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: scorcher on November 21, 2011, 18:50:07 PM
Never ! Oh - exept fairy liquid !
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: scorcher on November 21, 2011, 18:52:20 PM
oops - + c !
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: stoop on November 21, 2011, 20:24:47 PM
They have the same meaning, thus they're interchangeable.
Here is the fully 'story':
The status of 'til versus until and till is often argued about and most style guides have something to say on the matter.
The most common belief is that till is a shortened form of until. You can see how this could have grown up, but the truth of the matter is that till is by far the older word, being recorded from about the year 800, while it took another 400 years for until to appear in the language (it's a compound of till with the archaic Old Norse und, as far as, which also survives in the archaic unto). But the first sense of till was to, as it still can be, for example, in Scots and some dialects. Though the modern sense of till in standard English is always connected with time, this only appeared about 1300.
The current position is that until is the more common of the two words and is generally considered to be slightly more formal, which is why it turns up more often in edited prose. It is also rather more likely to appear at the beginning of a sentence than is till. But till is perfectly good English and the choice of whether to use it or until is often decided by the rhythm of the sentence.
'til, has been created within the past century by people who believe that till is an abbreviation of until and want to mark it as such. It has often been said by style guides and dictionaries that it's a mistake and it arouses passion in some people. Most recent writers on language prefer to describe it as an informal version of until — it often turns up in newspapers, advertising and song lyrics, for example, and in informal set phrases like "shop 'til you drop", "It ain't over 'til it's over" or " 'Til we meet again". But to use the spelling til without the preceding apostrophe is still regarded as wrong.
Courtesy of http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-unt1.htm
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: tinkerman on November 21, 2011, 21:20:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

until



until
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: KKOB on November 21, 2011, 21:32:47 PM
You're 'avin a giraffe !
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Colwyn on November 22, 2011, 09:58:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

until



until


Talking to yourself again, Tinx?
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: stoop on November 22, 2011, 10:18:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

until



until



It seems 'Till' is the earliest version of this word - so is probably more correct.

 ;)
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: Colwyn on November 22, 2011, 10:24:17 AM
Can something be more correct? Isn't it either correct or incorrect? Sounds like someone being more pregnant.
Title: Correct Grammer (Sick) Question
Post by: stoop on November 22, 2011, 10:28:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn

Can something be more correct? Isn't it either correct or incorrect? Sounds like someone being more pregnant.




No - neither are incorrect but as 'Till' was the first word on the scene it is probably 'more correct' - if we are going to argue about it.

:D ;)