Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: Scunner on November 23, 2011, 19:36:09 PM
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There is a very interesting feature on the BBC website - showing that the rate of Brits who emigrated to Australia but now returning to the UK (and Australians living here going back down under permanently) is on the increase. In fact, one comment says that they were a family in a group of 25 families who emigrated to Adelaide in just 2005 - only 4 families are still there six years on.
I think we are seeing something similar in Turkey too. Missing family and not feeling like you truly belong are two main reasons given for Brits not staying in Oz.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15799571
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Most people I know of here Keith and it is getting more common now for people to be leaving ang going back to the UK is ill health or the fear of ill health and some people just running out of money.There are those of course who are just bored with the place and the weather isnt enough to keep them here. Not a lot of them are going on about missing their families to the extent that they would go home to be with them. It could be also that Australia is a damned sight further away from the UK than Turkey and also a younger generation than those settling here.
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Yes I think missing family from Australia is a bit harder than missing family from Turkey Anne - there's also the realisation many Brit expats experience when they get there that it is not quite a new life but a similar life to the one they left behind but with more sun ("same ****, shinier bucket" is a phrase used!). I also read that one in four British marriages break up within two years (as I recall) of arriving there to start the exciting new life. That I have to say I noticed with Brits in Turkey too, maybe not quite 25% of them but I would say definitely more than in the UK as a whole.
We didn't particularly miss family ourselves, as both sides of the family were a plane journey away from us before we moved to Turkey and lived in England (family nearly all in Scotland/N. Ireland) so visits to see us always involved a journey - just sitting on the plane a bit longer than before for us visiting them and them visiting us. As we moved to Scotland rather than back to England the girls were really taken by the number of aunties, uncles and cousins they discovered on their doorstep here and still love that. The interesting one for me is "not feeling that you truly belong" - I'm not sure if I'd say that or not about our time in Turkey. I did find that not learning the language enough didn't help, our fault of course but I suppose yes, I don't think the Turkish (great though most of them are) would ever consider us to be truly one of them, no matter how often they say it ;)
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My sister just returned to the Uk last year after 33 years in Australia
She felt now she is older she wanted to be nearer family and had had enough of the hot weather, shes moved to Poole Dorset and is loving it
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I know a family who have been there (Oz) and back 3 times. They are on the 4th try now I think.
Thing is it's much easier these days to just go for a few years and come back if it doesn't work out.
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When I moved to Turkey 5 years ago I never expected or wanted to come back to the UK, unfortunately after our business failed I had no choice. If we were still trading I think that I would still be happy and settled in Turkey. Saying that, back then it was far easier to find a bargain flight back to the UK, I dont know how I would feel if I couldnt afford to come back to visit family or if they couldnt have afforded to come out as often as they did. I loved waking up to sunshine, I have struggled with depression for most of my adult life but the 2 years that I was in Turkey I never suffered with it once. I loved the size of apartment that we had and the fantastic views that we had of the mountains. I felt safe letting my daughter play outside and of course the large extended family that we had, there was never a dull moment, I especially enjoyed our Sunday BBQ's on the beach where the whole of the family used to spend the day playing games and eating lovely food. The two things that I didnt like about Turkey was the worry of healthcare in case anything happened to me or my daughter and also the in-laws could be quite overbearing, apart from that it was a very special time in my life.
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Well having lived in Turkey for over 12 years we have returned to the UK for family reasons (we miss the grand children never had them when we moved over)and the feeling that you will never fit in imho will always be there, also the Ex pats that have made Turkey their home in the last 4/5 years have again (imho) have tried to change the area of Ovacik instead of trying to fit in with the way of life here, and just get on with their own lives, they seem to have brought that bit of the UK with them that was one of the reasons I left, Turkey (ovacik)for me has changed in so many ways that for me its lost its charm and pulling power, I have got to the stage where I always replied when asked ''do you live ear'' no I am on holiday, it was usually a Turkish friend that referred them my way trying to help with advice and I would end up having a row because I was giving advice and facts that did not suit what they had been told by the barman/waiter, I have seen so many fools that have lost everything they owned, they did not listen to advice given freely by people that had been in the situation they were/are heading for. The one blessing is a forum like CBF springing up in 2003, I just wished the boss had thought of the idea earlier I am 100% sure that it would have saved some (not all) from a total disaster, it has help me no end and saved me money (yes money) since I have been a member/visitor, so lets see what awaits me in the UK at the moment I can honestly say I and my wife are not missing Turkey one bit, and has been said on CBF before its nice to go shopping and get what you want and desire (how nice is that galaxy bubbles bar?) its early days(August) yet, I have kept my homes in Turkey and I will be back to get my dogs in Feb (must be mad, but I love and miss them so much) I always kept a home in England and my advice is and always will be for anyone that has not purchased a property, rent first, keep a base in the UK, Turkey to live is not for everyone, I would also say I have met some fantastic friends both Turkish and UKish. Also my youngest daughter has a career in the UK that she would never have had but for her Education (cost me a fortune)in Turkey, so for all you newbies take a step back and enjoy your new found home, my last and probably most important piece of FREE advice, if you are not sure of ANYTHING ask on CBF first I am sure someone will now something/someone who can help! (and might just might save you some pennies) ;) :)
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It would be 20 years for me next year. All I can say is that I am ready to move on and would do in a blink of an eye. For me its boredom and need a new change and after getting divorced a few years ago, to get away from that part of my life too as I am still dreading the day I bump into the ex-mother in law.
Another factor I see a lot of expats leaving, especially here in Istanbul where there are decent international schools, is education. International schools charge around 30,000 USD per child and not everyone can afford that. State schools are a hell of a lot cheaper but the quality isnt there under the milli egitim curriculum.
I have had a lot of friends and especially expats married to Turks leave and go back to their home countries just because of this very reason.
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I recall that many years (perhaps 2005?) ago someone posted on CBF statistics of the percentage of British people who moved to Turkey who later returened to the UK (I think the poster was starman - without the TM). At that time, many people replied that the proportion of migrants reported was ludicrously high and that they knew of hardly anybody who had returned, or was planning to return, to the UK. I thought that in large part the stats might be boosted by those who had deliberately come to Turkey for business reasons and always intended to do a two or three year tour of duty for their (multi-national) company before moving on.
Now it seems I read. not just on CBF, about more and more ex-pats who are either retirees, or had previously intended to stay permanently, and are now returning to the UK (or perhaps off to the next stop - e.g. Bulgaria). Perhaps there is a sort of "natural" life cycle of a wave of people moving out during the early and mid 2000s and then moving back in the late 2000s and early 2010s being replaced by another wave of migrants.
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I remember that too, and in 2005 I hadn't heard of anyone who had or was planning to return - but soon after I knew a few, and the number has slowly increased year on year ever since. I think most British settlers in the Fethiye certainly arrived with a view to being there forever (I certainly did) but although we had many positive reasons to move on, I did find it an incredibly frustrating place to live - perhaps if we had retired there and had all the time in the World it may have been different - but getting ticket number 966 in the post office when they are only on 227 seemed such a waste of my time and the same at the bank and so many other places. Trying to get things done usually meant visiting half a dozen different offices and faces, some of them twice! As time passes, what was once so incredibly exciting can become incredibly frustrating. I am sure this is the same for Turks moving to the UK too.
Ultimately for us anyway the pull to live in Scotland became as strong as the pull to live in Turkey had - and I suppose people who are 'daft' enough to up sticks and move abroad are also likely to want to up sticks again. Those there to retire and enjoy the sun will want to move on less so, and as long as the finances still stack up will normally stay.
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I also think that for quite a few the demise of high interest rates on savings in Turkey has made them re-evaluate their 'retirement' in the sun.
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A 6 year holiday is enough to send even the sane over the edge. I remember when we landed at Antalya Airport and 40 minutes later Gordon looked to me and said "I think I want to go home"! The air turned blue, tantrums, and that was me. thanks goodness most of the people around us did not speak English and could not grasp Gordon's accent as he lasped into broad Scots.
Strange but 2-3 years later it was me that wanted to return to the UK and Gordon wanting to stay, it wasn't until the health issue raised it's head that I convinced Gordon it was now time. It is only now we are both in agreement that UK is best.
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Strangely it is like the water supply - you don't appreciate it till it isn't there. Turkey was a fantastic experience but for us I think you can't appreciate what the UK has to offer till you have lived elsewhere.
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Don't you just hate topics where we agree ;)
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I'll delete the evidence later
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Myself, I never intended to be here this long (almost 7 years now) but it has taken me this long to convince hubby (Turkish) that the UK is the place for us to be whilst we have a young family. I will move back in January, with him hopefully following a couple of months later. My reasons are probably pretty similar to some of the others, the education here was just not "doing it" for my eldest son, plus, it's now time for him to think about his G.C.S.E's. I also find it very difficult running the kind of business we do, and trying to balance that with "quality" family life. 7 day weeks and 18-20 hour days do not sit comfortably with 2 kids! I am maybe in a slightly different position to some, in that my parents live here, so I will be leaving tham behind. I do feel very sad about this, of course, but on the otherhand, I can't wait to come back and see them on my jollies. All in all, I have had a great time here (most of the time) but I am now ready for a life of normality...or as normal as it gets!
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I'd be back to Turkey tonight if I had the chance. Love the lifestyle, our house, the food, the weather, etc etc.
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I think I can understand many of the views expressed here. However the desire to live the Turkish dream is still what many of us are keen to do some time in the future.
Like many the Present Mrs Tickets and I are working towards that dream, and the sooner the better. However, part of that plan for us includes keeping a place in the UK, and spending some time living back in the UK. Keeping a foot in both countries we believe will enable us to enjoy the benefits of both countries, including friends and family in both location.
We do believe though that there will be an end time for the 'living' in Turkey, whether it is through missing best bitter, the arrival of grand children, frustration with getting some things done in Turkey, or whatever, we do expect a return to the UK on a permanent basis to come. Although we do hope that this will not happen for quite a few years of living the dream before we think about it.:D
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I know myself how difficult this has been for you, especially with family still in Turkey, but you have all made a wise choice while your children can still get the level of education you and they want. It will also be good for hubby to experience something new, but as you know, we will all miss you.
My reasons for a possible return to the uk in 2012 are totally different. having been here for nearly 4 years on a career break, I now feel it's time to try and have a few more years in the uk, but still keep an apt either here or somewhere else in Turkey, should I want to return sooner rather than later.
I also miss the english winter (some may say i'm mad) but after 3 full winters here in fethiye, on a personal level, I have found them to be getting worse and prefer home comforts in the uk. The best times here for me are spring, early and late summer.
I'm off for a few days to istanbul soon, going to view an apt just outside of there, which are not as expensive as here and then finally have a christmas and new year back in the uk, can't wait.
Hope to see you this friday Mandy for your final music quiz.
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Originally posted by minimoo
Myself, I never intended to be here this long (almost 7 years now) but it has taken me this long to convince hubby (Turkish) that the UK is the place for us to be whilst we have a young family. I will move back in January, with him hopefully following a couple of months later. My reasons are probably pretty similar to some of the others, the education here was just not "doing it" for my eldest son, plus, it's now time for him to think about his G.C.S.E's. I also find it very difficult running the kind of business we do, and trying to balance that with "quality" family life. 7 day weeks and 18-20 hour days do not sit comfortably with 2 kids! I am maybe in a slightly different position to some, in that my parents live here, so I will be leaving tham behind. I do feel very sad about this, of course, but on the otherhand, I can't wait to come back and see them on my jollies. All in all, I have had a great time here (most of the time) but I am now ready for a life of normality...or as normal as it gets!
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Interesting topic especially as we are getting ready to make our move over there in March, I think we are doing the right thing by keeping the house on here and I hope that will remove any feeling that we may have 'burned our bridges' We are moving over with an open mind, if we like it then we will stay, if not we will come back to the UK. Don't get me wrong, it was tempting to sell up and free up all of that cash, we even went around looking at all of those 3 story detached, roof terrace properties with a view to buying one, but then we thought, with just the two of us, why do we want to do this? So instead we are having our little house gutted and refitted with new kitchen, bathrooms, windows etc as we speak.
With both of us being retired, I wont let the bank queues and red tape wind me up, although I can see that if you are in a hurry then it would drive you mad. We have absolutely no intention of taking up any type of paid work although we are looking forward to helping out with 3Cs and Animal Aid in any way we can. I do get the bit about not feeling like you belong and I find it strange to think that it is me who will be the foreigner and probably treated accordingly. Healthcare is a bit of a worry as neither of us are getting any younger but I am sure we will sort something out. In a bit of a funny twist, I reckon we will see more of our family rather than less, for instance my Son who lives in Coventry is coming out for 2 weeks as is my Brother who lives in Hong Kong, there is no way I would see them on 14 days here.
So nothing ventured, nothing gained and fingers crossed.
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Definitely so George - I'd advise anyone with a desire to live in Turkey to do it - it suits some and not others, and some for a time and others for life. It was great for us for a time then we decided to try yet another new place. The one big difference I think in Turkey is not the queueing, the not feeling like you belong, the missing people back home or indeed not knowing what everyone is saying because learning Turkish was just too tough ;)
The one big difference I found was that you go from total obscurity locally to having your entire life being discussed, chewed over, deliberated upon and conclusions agreed. Often by complete strangers, often by people you thought were friends. I did think at one stage that it was me, perhaps because of the forum but it is not, anyone and everyone is fair game around the tables. You can't stop it, you can't put them right on anything and you can't keep you head down as what they don't know they make up.
One of the best things about NOT living there is that around here, nobody gives the slightest monkey's about who you are, might be or think you are, what time you got home or how much your house is or isn't worth.
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Daja vu Kieth, could not have put it any clearer my self, strange init. :o :)
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quote:
Originally posted by ScunnerThe one big difference I found was that you go from total obscurity locally to having your entire life being discussed, chewed over, deliberated upon and conclusions agreed. Often by complete strangers, often by people you thought were friends. I did think at one stage that it was me, perhaps because of the forum but it is not, anyone and everyone is fair game around the tables. You can't stop it, you can't put them right on anything and you can't keep you head down as what they don't know they make up.
I couldn't agree more Keith, been here just over 2 months & I've heard several versions of who I am & why I'm here! Yes, I have posted about my experience on CBF but this was from people who have no knowledge of the forum! The Calis Chinese Whispers are very strong, just be broad shouldered & ignore the bar gossip then you'll be fine.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
The one big difference I found was that you go from total obscurity locally to having your entire life being discussed, chewed over, deliberated upon and conclusions agreed. Often by complete strangers, often by people you thought were friends.
One of the best things about NOT living there is that around here, nobody gives the slightest monkey's about who you are, might be or think you are, what time you got home or how much your house is or isn't worth.
Totally aware of this Keith and have had some personal experience with people who just have too much time on their hands over there. A forum member who shall remain nameless (sorry if there is anyone called nameless) gave me what I now regard as a valuable piece of advice and told me that when you move over, keep your circle of friends small and close. I have lived in our house in the UK for more than 20 years and we get by very happily on a handful of close friends, I'm sure we don't need 100 'friends' when we move to Calis?
The house value gossip should not be a problem, as you know, our house is worth less than most in Calis, but we love it and that is all that matters.
Like Supercabby, I will keep all on the forum updated on our experience and hope that we can discover great benefits and point out pitfalls. Personal experience and of course the forum means that we already recognise many of the challenges we will face, not least the transition we will have to make from being on holiday in Calis to being resident there, I imagine that is a world of difference and if anyone spots me at 10.00am in a bar on the font having an effes, then you can be assured that I have failed !!
But once again a really good topic for us and as they say, to be forewarned is to be forearmed.
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Well one thing I learned while out there is that you can't change it - how can you educate people who know it all already!
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I think it's easy to get drawn in to things when you 1st move to any place due to the excitement of starting a new life and the desire to keep an open mind and not be judgemental.
It may take a few weeks/months/years but you do eventually realise that some of these folk are the type you previously avoided at all costs (gossips, troublemakers, know it all moaners etc), so you just start to keep your distance from them and the places they hang out.
I believe there are more decent people here who just want to get on with their lives than people who have nothing good to say about anyone, however sometimes it's hard to ignore them:(
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There are definitely more decent people there who just want to get on - aside from the gossips, freeloaders, weirdos, and two faced people, I met some of the best people in my life in Fethiye. This is the thing that needs to be seen in proportion because it can appear far different to the actual case. It may seem that it is most people and this is for two reasons - firstly that the ones that are plunging the knife into anyone and everyone make the most noise, and secondly that many of the good folk you just don't see around much!