Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: BM06 on January 09, 2012, 18:08:33 PM
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So whats your opinions should you/they stay or go [?] ;)
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I vote SNP now that I am born again Scottish, not because I want independence but because they were/are the only party that can beat the Tories in this cream tea and twinset heartland - and did/do beat them. They seem more interested in the price of alcohol than anything to do with an independent Scotland and I would fear for a Scotland run entirely by the SNP.
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... I'd be more worried about the SPL etc than the Tories !
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Co-incidently I was going to start a thread about the referendum and pose the question as to who will/should be eligible to vote in same.
Wife beating Spaniards who haven't lived here for yonks ?
English people who have moved here and run successful business ?
Etc.
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Stay, no independence for me im afraid, i dont think we could sustain ourselves as a country.
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What I do not understand is why the English are not given a vote. English and Scottish should have a referendum on the same day and if either country votes for independence then that vote should be binding.
Mark
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Absolutly no independence for mw. We are a United Kingdom .
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We SHALL be a Nation again!
We CAN sustain ourselves!
We can STILL work with our neighbours!
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Originally posted by Toky
Absolutly no independence for mw. We are a United Kingdom .
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quote:
Originally posted by braveheart
We SHALL be a Nation again!
We CAN sustain ourselves!
We CAN work with and alongside our neighbours (assuming the neighbours wish to work with us)!
quote:
Originally posted by Toky
Absolutly no independence for mw. We are a United Kingdom .
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Braveheart, sustain ourselves with what??
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Offal
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Keith, your spelling is atrocious ;)
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Get real Braveheart! In your ideal world maybe......in reality no!
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Mr Salmond had been our local MSP for years and with my knowledge of him...Quite a lot... I would not put him in charge of the local Dustcart let alone the country.
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I certainly wouldn't have much faith in him or the party on the World stage. The fact is that the Scottish Parliament is more like a city council than a national government. It's all lovely abolishing bridge tolls and meeting Chinese representatives to help push Scotch whisky exports but I can't imagine wanting to leave it to Salmond when it comes to taking the decision whether or not to send Scottish soldiers into war in some far off land, and can't really envisage him holding his own around the table with the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel. Unless he's bringing the coffees of course.
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Wrong Scunner, he will be bringing the Donuts.... Remember he was one of the M.P's in the expensives scandal who claimed monthly for his food, something close to his heart.
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Oh!!!! - Yeh of LITTLE Faith !!
Hail Westminster ????
Long Live Westminster ???
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
can't really envisage him holding his own around the table with the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel.
So it would be better to leave representation to that supremely accomplished statesman and diplomat Dave Cameron? Blimey, I hadn't realized Salmond was that bad close up.
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Colwyn
It appears to some that David is our saviour - he who cares for the common man (as long as it is within the 'CITY' (their 'CITY') !!
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Originally posted by Colwyn
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Originally posted by Scunner
can't really envisage him holding his own around the table with the likes of Sarkozy and Merkel.
So it would be better to leave representation to that supremely accomplished statesman and diplomat Dave Cameron? Blimey, I hadn't realized Salmond was that bad close up.
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As I understand it, negotiations will begin only after a "yes" vote.
How, in heavens name, am I meant to make a valued judgment on a deal when I don't know what the deal is.
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quote:
Originally posted by Colwyn
So it would be better to leave representation to that supremely accomplished statesman and diplomat Dave Cameron? Blimey, I hadn't realized Salmond was that bad close up.
I have warmed a little to David Cameron. He seems more competent than I remember. Not because of anything he has said or done, just since the day Ed Milliband became Labour leader.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
I have warmed a little to David Cameron. He seems more competent than I remember.
Do you think the competent Cameron is a secret supporter of Scottish Independence then? He must have added at least 10,000 votes to the "Yes" campaign in the last 48 hours.
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What is Ed Milliband's opinion on this - is it the same as his opinion on everything else? I'm a life long Labour supporter (although I don't vote for them here :D ) and the man is an idiot.
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Highlander
Trust me some things never seem to change - for those of us that remember our National devolution referundum during March 1979 (for those not around at the time check out what happened in that instance) - I do hope that his time around we get the opportunity to play on a 'level playing field' without London loading the issue to suit their own political gains
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Originally posted by Highlander
As I understand it, negotiations will begin only after a "yes" vote.
How, in heavens name, am I meant to make a valued judgment on a deal when I don't know what the deal is.
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Tell me if the Oil Capital of Europe linked to the Major White fish port in Europe and these
places where in England do you think that for 35 years there would have be a single road most of the 25 miles and no rail links, with a bus every hour?
Salmond is a charming man and so nice to speak to, he fills you full of confidence when you are with him, but that is all I can say in his favour. He is shallow and only interested in Salmond.
We live near Peterhead the main white fish port in Europe 25 miles away is Aberdeen, Europe's Oil Capital. To get from Peterhead to Aberdeen, there is no train, Dr Beeching saw to that. The road is in an agricultural area, so lots of tractors. Also Peterhead is a base for the Oil Service Industry so lots of lorries going back and forth to from Port to Port taking items to the supply ships. The 25 mile stretch of road has two very small areas of dual carriageway, the rest of the road is two way.
Mr. Salmond, the local MSP promised about 25 years ago to make the whole road dual carriageway and ease the congestion, which was only right for such a busy road. Guess what? he never did. I know so many people who have felt let down and aggrieved by this neglect. I could mention so many things not done in this area. If some of the people in other areas of Scotland had lived with Mr. Salmond as their local MSP they would soon change their minds about him and his party. If he promises to sort out local issues and cannot, what chance National Issues?
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Jacqui
I symathise with your sentiments (and I am sure many Scots around our Nation can associate themselves with your words)
On the other side of our Nation and similar to yourself - today I have just travelled along the A75 which is the main Euro/Irish Scotland route (mega trucks trundelling thro small villages 24/7 with approximately 2 miles of duel carraigway dotted here and there) these problems have developed over the last few decades - not during Salmond's time
An utter disgreace - this would not happen south of the Watford Gap
Dumfriesshire has been in the hands of our illustrios Tories for 99% of my life-time while our country has been in the hands of of McMillan, Douglas Hume, Wilson, Heath, Callagher, Thatcher, Blair, Brown and lately our Mr Cameron I do NOT THINK FOR ONE SECOND that a continued London Westminster presence is going to make any change to our dilemas
Maybe - just maybe - we can have the courage to carry a vote for some change - otherwise advise me of the alternative??
PS
When considering any advice please keep in mind that I am no spring chicken - therefore any propsed changes to our past non-events need to be pretty swift!!
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Originally posted by Jacqui Harvey
Tell me if the Oil Capital of Europe linked to the Major White fish port in Europe and these
places where in England do you think that for 35 years there would have be a single road most of the 25 miles and no rail links, with a bus every hour?
Salmond is a charming man and so nice to speak to, he fills you full of confidence when you are with him, but that is all I can say in his favour. He is shallow and only interested in Salmond.
We live near Peterhead the main white fish port in Europe 25 miles away is Aberdeen, Europe's Oil Capital. To get from Peterhead to Aberdeen, there is no train, Dr Beeching saw to that. The road is in an agricultural area, so lots of tractors. Also Peterhead is a base for the Oil Service Industry so lots of lorries going back and forth to from Port to Port taking items to the supply ships. The 25 mile stretch of road has two very small areas of dual carriageway, the rest of the road is two way.
Mr. Salmond, the local MSP promised about 25 years ago to make the whole road dual carriageway and ease the congestion, which was only right for such a busy road. Guess what? he never did. I know so many people who have felt let down and aggrieved by this neglect. I could mention so many things not done in this area. If some of the people in other areas of Scotland had lived with Mr. Salmond as their local MSP they would soon change their minds about him and his party. If he promises to sort out local issues and cannot, what chance National Issues?
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Does anyone seriously believe that monies in a fully independant Scotland would be spent anywhere other than in the Central belt.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
What is Ed Milliband's opinion on this ... the man is an idiot.
"Idiot" seems a trifle harsh, although his performance and vision have disappointed me so far. I haven't voted Labour since 1994 - not after it became New Labour (aka Tory Lite). I thought I would give this new incarnation of the party four or five years to re-shape things. I realized nothing was likely to emerge quickly - you can't fight to win an election, end up losing, go through a bruising party leadership election, and come up with a credible alternative strategy (i.e. alternative to to the incumbent government AND alternative to your previous party failure) all in a couple of years. I hope things start to develop otherwise I'll be voting for one of those "fringe parties" and have no impact on the result in the next General Election - in my case this will almost certainly mean the Green Party. For the moment I think Miliband would be sensible to say (a) he supports the unity (alleged) of the United Kingdom and (b) he supports the Scots' right to vote upon this and - most important - (c) he will keep his English nose out of how they do this.
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Braveheart, i agree with your last post, ref tories etc. but running a country is all about sustainability (if there is such a word) and i just cant see where the money is going to come from because there is not a hope in hell of westminster releasing their grip on oil revenue as it one of the biggest earners, whisky revenue, money there but not enough, i am old enough to remember the 79 fiasco, that was the chance and probably at that time we could have made a go of it but here and now i dont really think so.
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Better the central belt than London !!!!
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Originally posted by Highlander
Does anyone seriously believe that monies in a fully independant Scotland would be spent anywhere other than in the Central belt.
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Originally posted by braveheart
Better the central belt than London !!!!
Only if you live in the Central Belt:(.
There are plenty other areas in this country that need money spent on them more than the Glasgow and Edinburgh.
And, if our history on Public Expenditure, eg The New Parliament, (budget £50m actual cost £ 450m+), then God help us.
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And what an attractive building it is too.
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Unless we do something about establishing an English Parliament (part of our democratic deficit) then full independence for Scotland - no half way houses please - will be the only way we will solve the West Lothian question. Not too much of an issue at the moment, with a Tory government in place. However, when we had the last Labour Government in place we had Scottish MPs voting though Education and Health legislation that impacted only on England, that they would never in a million years have supported if it was going to apply to their own Scottish constituencies. It was like the reverse of the Poll Tax being forced upon the Scots by Thatcher
As to Independence,if that's what the Scots want, well that should be their choice. I just worry that if we are left with an English Parliament (including Wales??) under the present FPTP electoral system, that we would be stuck with a Tory Government in perpetuity, with no commitment to change to a fairer electoral system that could keep them out of government.
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will it meana visa,and residences[o not again]
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quote:
Originally posted by usedbustickets
I just worry that if we are left with an English Parliament (including Wales??) under the present FPTP electoral system, that we would be stuck with a Tory Government in perpetuity, with no commitment to change to a fairer electoral system that could keep them out of government.
Good point.
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quote:
Originally posted by Scunner
And what an attractive building it is too.
Multi award winning - unbelievable:(
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It's the way it is so in keeping with it's surroundings. The bamboo especially.
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The building of the parliament was a national scandal which we should be ashamed of.
Image yourself deciding to build a house with a budget of say £ 200k.
With costs spiraling out of control at what point would you have called a halt to the project ?
When the costs were £ 600k, £1.20m or would you have handed over the £ 1.80m at the end.
Well you might have, if it wasn't your money.
:(:(:(
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I would like to see Scotland go indepenent. The resulting chaos might give the loonies we have in Wales something to think about; although , most of them are high on dogma and low on thought.
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I am man who considers himself British (grandmother from Belfast married an Anglo Scot, a surname that cleary marks me with Welsh connections, but considered to be English on Grandmothers side) so I would submit that I am not particualrly partisan in this matter, although I would declare an interest that I would hate to see the break up of the Union having spent 24 years protecting it.
To go or not to go, its all about money, apparently Scotland represents 9% of the union, therefore 9% of the National debt would be inherited (Ive no idea how much - any one want to let me know), Mr Salmond has stated he wants 9% of the Army/Navy/Airforce, which comes with 9% of the cost (again anyone know the defence budget?).
Scotland has no Diplomatic service (although some career diplomats will transfer (the quality of which MAY be subject to scrutiny)). There would be a need to have an Embassy or some such like in every country in the world, each with its own staff (cost - approx 9% of the UKs budget?), Currency would be - well the Scottish pound, no issues there but the 'markets' as we all know do not have any sympathy for currencies, they look at the hard facts and would let the Scots £ float to its real level, up or down, but would Mr Salmond let the Eng £ be legal tender in Scotland and vicerversa - I think not?
Finally there are several national civil service HQ's located in Scotland (student loans and others I believe), they would have to move south over the border - and the jobs with them! How much money does Fass Lane put into the economy. All gone!.
Its all about money, and I'm sorry but as I understand it Scotland doesnt have enough to support all of this, yes I know the North sea has untold riches - well not really, A. its nearly all gone now, and B. most of the 'assets' would fall on the wrong side of the line of the new border (international law dictates that the new sea border follows the line of the land based border - check and you'll see the new border would run parallel with the Dundee/Aberdeen coast line). A lot of sea to the right of the new border.
I stand braced for both barrels of dogs abuse, but please remember dont shoot the messenger.
But do remeber this: If you can read this, thank your teachers. If you are reading it in English, then thank your soldiers. (Another killed recently whilst trying to rescue a wounded Afghan civillian, we are not worthy of having them serve us - but hey thats another thread.)
Both barrels please.
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Mr Salmond is in favour of joining the Euro. In fact a while ago he held up Eire and Iceland as good examples of Countries who went out on their own and also joined the Euro... Great examples.
Re North Sea Oil, plenty left or my husband would be out of a job, new wells still being drilled.
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Another example of the Salmond wisdom....
"SCOTLAND'S first minister Alex Salmond's enthusiastic backing of Royal Bank of Scotland's disastrous takeover of ABN Ambro returned to haunt him yesterday.
A letter, released yesterday, shows that Salmond wrote to RBS boss Sir Fred Goodwin (pictured) in May 2007 to throw his weight behind the bank's disastrous purchase.
Signing the note, "Yours for Scotland", Salmond said he "would like to offer any assistance my office can provide"."
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Saw a picture of king Alec and thought he looked like jabba the hut. He's hanging his hat on the oil, if I lived in the Islands I would vote to join Norway a much better bet than either England or Scotland
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I really do think that the SNP are trying to make out it is just a simple vote of yes or no without explaining the consequences of the decision and the impact that it will have.I am not a fan of George Osbourne but I do agree with him that the break up will actually be bad for Scotland.
The time has passed for independence, it should have been done 20 years ago when oil revenues were at their highest level.Recent estimates are that the revenues including oil will still leave a big gap that will have to borrowed from somewhere.
There is a possibility that the Scots will have to drop sterling. Salmond is in favour of joining the Euro.For the rest of the UK it might be a good idea because the European stability fund can repay the UK taxpayers all the money that had to be poured into RBS. After all it is a Scottish bank that Salmond is very proud of.
On a serious note to dismantle the complex financial positions that currently exist will take years. I remember when the Irish broke from sterling and the biggest winner were the banks. Sterling savings were suddenly converted to punts and they made a fortune because of the buy and sell exchange rates.
Scotland would have to reapply for membership of the EU if it wanted to join. It will be no different to Ireland or the other smaller countries because at the end of the day the big 3 France, Germany and the UK (if it is till in the EU) will call the tune.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Another example of the Salmond wisdom....
"SCOTLAND'S first minister Alex Salmond's enthusiastic backing of Royal Bank of Scotland's disastrous takeover of ABN Ambro returned to haunt him yesterday.
A letter, released yesterday, shows that Salmond wrote to RBS boss Sir Fred Goodwin (pictured) in May 2007 to throw his weight behind the bank's disastrous purchase.
Signing the note, "Yours for Scotland", Salmond said he "would like to offer any assistance my office can provide"."
I posted a response to the above.
It appeared and now it has disappeared.
It was not especially significant nor entertaining but I would be grateful if someone would explain why it is no longer visible.
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Amca, my apologies.
I deleted your post as it appeared to be only a reply with quote but no imput from you.
The post above looks the same. You need to write below the (quote) so your text appears to be added ( larger text) and not part of the original.
Sorry once again
Anne
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And further to that reply, I nearly deleted the one above myself for the same reason Anne gave. This should help: {A Link to an old CBF topic was here - no longer available}32241
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Perhaps the Scots should demonstrate their affection for their country by maintaining their most successful trait over the past 4 or 5 hundred years. Emigration. :)
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quote:
Originally posted by farmer
Perhaps the Scots should demonstrate their affection for their country by maintaining their most successful trait over the past 4 or 5 hundred years. Emigration. :)
Dashed good idea - think i will try that, oops i already did.......
Although not sure if i am an Emigrant or an immegrant
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quote:
Originally posted by Anne
Amca, my apologies.
I deleted your post as it appeared to be only a reply with quote but no imput from you.
The post above looks the same. You need to write below the (quote) so your text appears to be added ( larger text) and not part of the original.
Sorry once again
Anne
Apology accepted but not necessary.
Like this?
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Partially ;)
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ssshhhhh...don't tell everyone ;)
(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q214/highlander_010/0097181.gif)
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Scottish Independence. Bring it on!
United Kingdom Government Expenditure.
This comprises all expenditure that can be identified as being to the benefit of a particular country. It does not, however, take account of non-identifiable expenditure, such as defence and debt interest, which are deemed to be for the benefit of the entire UK, regardless as to where the money is all actually spent.
In actual monetary figures, this would work out as (per person):
... England £7,121
... Scotland £8,623
... Wales £8,139
... Northern Ireland £9,385
The population of England is 83% of the population of the UK. Instant abolition of the Barnett Formula, based on the above figures would result on an average UK expenditure of approximately £7,362. This would be a large decrease for each person in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but an increase of less than 4% per person for England.
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quote:
Originally posted by Highlander
Another example of the Salmond wisdom....
"SCOTLAND'S first minister Alex Salmond's enthusiastic backing of Royal Bank of Scotland's disastrous takeover of ABN Ambro returned to haunt him yesterday."
One thing I do wonder - had Scotland become independent prior to the disaster of RBS, could the Scottish tax payer have bailed it out? I think most probably not...
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quote:
Originally posted by farmer
In actual monetary figures, this would work out as (per person):
... England £7,121
... Scotland £8,623
... Wales £8,139
... Northern Ireland £9,385
And the figure for London is ?
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It's £ 8,404 from the same source (I think).
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And for Glasgow £9384
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If Scotland was independent RBS would have probably been saved by loans from the IMF or Europe. This in turn would have put 2 generations of Scots into poverty like what is being experienced in Ireland and Greece.What a great start that would have been to independence.
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I think the discussion around what would have happened if ...... RBS collapse had happened in an independent Scotland.
I may be wrong but it seems that this particular "what if' is being presented as an argument against independence.
For the sake of balance:
What if the oil boom had happened in an independent Scotland?
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Stay.If Salmond says he wants out,put him on a slow boat to China with Euros in his pocket to bail him out.
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Salmond, a Scottish citizen and British subject and the only leader of a political party in the United Kingdom with a clear majority at the latest election should be evicted from his own country and sent to an Asian country in an unseaworthy vessel with some European currency?
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quote:
Originally posted by amca
I think the discussion around what would have happened if ...... RBS collapse had happened in an independent Scotland.
I may be wrong but it seems that this particular "what if' is being presented as an argument against independence.
For the sake of balance:
What if the oil boom had happened in an independent Scotland?
The scotch would have found a way to distill it and probably drunk it years ago ;) :)
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Salmond may, or may not, be an incompetent administor-in-chief (I have no way of knowing) but he is the ONLY leader of a political party who provides me with a clear answer to the questions he is actually asked in TV/radio interviews. If clarity of speech (and writing) is linked to clarity of thought - and I think this is reasonably plausible - then this is a good sign. On the other hand, I suppose his enemies will say it is because he has learned his lines better than the dopes at Westminster.
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BM06 Do you mean Scots? as Scotch is a drink.
Colwyn, Mr. Salmond is a very eloquent speaker and a charming and plausible man to speak to. I remember a group of us going to see him about 21 years ago. We all felt so good after our meeting with him and full of hope. Sad to say he did absolutely nothing about our problem. I have encountered him on a few occasions since then, as have people I know locally and the general consensus of opinion is he talks really well is very disarming and totally convincing... Unfortunately, that's where it ends.
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacqui Harvey
BM06 Do you mean Scots? as Scotch is a drink.
Colwyn, Mr. Salmond is a very eloquent speaker and a charming and plausible man to speak to. I remember a group of us going to see him about 21 years ago. We all felt so good after our meeting with him and full of hope. Sad to say he did absolutely nothing about our problem. I have encountered him on a few occasions since then, as have people I know locally and the general consensus of opinion is he talks really well is very disarming and totally convincing... Unfortunately, that's where it ends.
Ooops! how silly of me Jacqui :-\ I take it you are not a fan of Mr Salmon ;) :)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtdb-g_JNI&feature=share