Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Other Local Resorts & Areas => Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum => Topic started by: tinkerman on September 05, 2012, 12:58:24 PM
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This is in the suggestion stage at the moment and I have been asked by the foreign consulate to test the feelings of all ex-pats in the Fethiye area.
The suggestion is for a foreign council to be set up of about twenty foreign people and with one being present at main council meetings, the council should be made up of people representing all areas of Fethiye.
I personally thought it was a good idea, this should help bring to the attention of the local government of ex-pat problems in all aspects, what do you think? :)
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I think in principal it is a very good idea Andy. With the number of foreign nationals now living within the area it makes sense to have a central point / chair through which sensible suggestions can be put forward.
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I think that it is a good idea. The important thing would be to concentrate on issues which the Belediye have control. For example, the varying "contributions " different Muhtars charge to register with them.And to avoid issues which are imposed by central government involving the law and national regulations.
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yes, that's right - from memory we had something along these lines about 7 or 8 years ago. Unfortunately the meetings were attended by several people who had all sorts of ideas that could not be effected by the local council.
If I understand the concept of what Andy is saying here there would only be one actual representative at council meetings and this sounds more controlled and likely to work (hope I have that right Andy - no doubt you'll correct me otherwise LOL) .
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That is the way I read it. One person representing the foreign community at council meetings.
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That is correct sir! :) one spokesman/woman putting wishes, views, concerns and ideas forward on behalf of the commitee and the community :)
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Maybe the concerns of (say) the Russian community are far different to those of the British community. One foreign person may not easily represent foreigners in Fethiye. I suppose it's better to have it than not though...
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yes I agree,maybe one from each of the main ex pat countries would be a better idea
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it's a start Andy, needs thinking through perhaps but if the council are willing to accept the constructive views of foreign residents it could be of great benefit - has my vote !!
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Yes as I said very early stages and a good time to put your ideas and comments in to get the foundations right.
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Good idea but I hope that if it happens the council will also have a translator present for the ex pat representative.
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It would be ideal to have a bilingual representative as I remember when we did the old Expat Q&A evenings it took a while as questions were obviously delivered in English, then I would explain to the Turkish people on the 'panel' (who spoke English!) what the question was about (often due to accents/slang), then they would tell the Turkish speakers on the panel in Turkish - and the answer would come back via a similar route. All time consuming and open to misunderstanding/change en route :)
On those nights I must say that the answers given to problems raised often simply gave the asker what they wanted to hear, rather than an accurate answer. For example, if someone was worried about the number of police patrols, the panel said there would be more. There never were of course but there is, I think, a tendency to use this tactic as it is easiest.
The last one was possibly in 2007, and I am still waiting for the new state-of-the-art mechanical beach cleaning vehicle, ordered and promised for the (then) coming summer season by panel member Mr. *** *******!
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Im sure the machine was used last year several times when laying the new beach.
I would like the views of more people who are actually living here alongside outsiders points of view :) ;)
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I think it's a very good idea Andy, Maybe Keith could organise a poll for which residents could vote on their most important issues arranged in descending order of priority, that way the representative could attempt to keep the most important issues on the agenda until improvement had been carried out.
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Im sure the machine was used last year several times when laying the new beach.
No no, this was a space age sort of moonraker vehicle, that would comb the beach every day!
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Before we start listing concerns etc. I would like to know how much interest there is amongst the ex-pats to form such a committee :)
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I'm not concerned :)
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Yes . It is a good idea and well worth pursueing.
I suspect that someone in the expat community will be fluent enough, in the Turkish language ,to attend these meetings without the need of a translator.
How will resident foreigners, from all of the nationalities ,and the many expats who do not subscribe to CBF be made aware of this proposal and be able to communicate their thoughts. Or, at this stage, is this a straw poll?
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As a suggestion Andy, why, rather than have a committee and a large number of members involved, don't we suggest that the elected representative holds surgeries at a central Fethiye based location.
Residents can then air their views directly and those that are relevant can be carried forward.
Land of Lights, Fethiye Times, Sun Express etc can also be used to ascertain if there is sufficient interest.
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Good idea but I hope that if it happens the council will also have a translator present for the ex pat representative.
Why cant the person just simply learn Turkish? After all if it was the other way around in England, they would be expected to do the same.
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Good idea but I hope that if it happens the council will also have a translator present for the ex pat representative.
Why cant the person just simply learn Turkish? After all if it was the other way around in England, they would be expected to do the same.
Not true I'm afraid as our english multi-cultural driven councils do all they can to translate documents etc. into as many languages as possible (even if there are no speakers of a particular language in the area) and often provide translation services for both individuals and groups. Apart from the fact that it was the £50 answer to the £1 question, it does mean that people do not bother to learn english, particularly when there is a large, and supportive, group of their own ethnic/language speaking around them .... but you could be right in this making people less inclined to learn Turkish.
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Maybe the concerns of (say) the Russian community are far different to those of the British community. One foreign person may not easily represent foreigners in Fethiye. I suppose it's better to have it than not though...
I think it is fair to say that my Russian neighbours share much the same views as we Brits on matters local in this area, so assuming we could overcome the not insignificant problem of firstly, communication with one another across the community, and secondly, would the person who sits on the council a representative or a delegate, i.e. s/he is like an MP is seen as representing our views or someone who is a mouthpiece of a mandated view, and thirdly will this person be selected by the council or elected, by the community, if so when, how, where do we vote for the person and for how long?
Having said all that broadly I am in favour of the idea, it's certainly better than what we have currently.
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This is only a straw poll to find out if there is an interest within the local expats to have a say in local politics.
Nothing has been decided on how anything happens as yet but in an ideal world the twenty reps from various areas of Fethiye and a fair mix of yabanci will be nominated and seconded by the communities and the Chairpersons/spokespersons nominated from within that group
by the members of that group.
Long way to go yet...
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I’m a great believer of people participation and I would love to have more of a say in local politics. I would personally avoid replicating systems that fit neatly with ideas about how to do things and mimic existing structures simply because we understand them or they are familiar to us.
Relevance, accessibility, openness, transparency, accountability and results would be key issues for me before I gave my time to participate.
Like most people I am interested in some things and not others, and like most people I am more motivated to find the time to take part in things that either interest or are of concern to me and most importantly where I can see that my views are being listened too, taken seriously and actually make a difference.
A model that facilitates and enables relevant people’s participation on the issues they care about and incorporates a range of methods as appropriate to consult and involve them to ensure their views are taken into account would hold more interest for me.
This could include as some have already mentioned, local surgeries, online questionnaires via forums and the local media, interest focus groups, presentations to and meetings with key players or decision makers, petitions etc...
For example street cats and dogs; do we need to consult the whole of the local population to know what the issues are and what can be done to improve the situation? No! We already have local Vets, the staff at the shelter, Animal Aid and probably there are local Turkish organisations or Turkish interest groups too with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the situation and what needs to be done.
Or what about access issues for people with disabilities re pavements and roads, public transport, hotels, bars and restaurants, public buildings like schools, Government offices, banks and shops etc. Who would I consult? People with disabilities and their Carers and local support or interest groups that probably already exist!
On issues like cleaning up the shoreline of litter in this area or how should Fethiye develop and promote itself as a centre for Tourism then wider consultations of all local people, environment groups, businesses, tourists even, would be more valid and relevant.
Just to add that Turkish people as well as foreigners should be involved in these processes. I think that there may be an assumption that local Turks are involved in decision making in their communities but I doubt very much that they are.
Also there is nothing wrong with having information available in more than one language if you want people to be able to participate as opposed to just paying lip service to the idea. The 65 year old ex pats in Fethiye probably have just as much difficulty learning fluent Turkish as the 65 year old ex pats in the UK do learning fluent English!
Anyway just my initial thoughts and just to add that whatever way/s forward is adopted it looks like hell of a lot of work for some people and I would suggest that someone with a working knowledge of people’s participation is employed to facilitate the process.
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I used to live in Alanya and there's something similar.
A foreign residents committee has been set up and twice a week they hold office in a municipality building where residents can express their requests or problems.
The committee is like an intermediate between the Alanya council and the foreign residents.
More info on this link http://sunsearch.info/turkey/alanya/guide/foreign-residents-committe/
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Some of the members of the Alanya committee speak Turkish but most don't.
It's also not necessary since they don't have direct interaction with the council.
In the way Tinkerman proposes, being fluent in Turkish would be necessary in order to follow what's being said in the council meetings.
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I vote for Dutchie
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ha ha
Thanks but no thanks.
I think the position is more suitable for retirees.
They have plenty of time which I don't have unfortunately :(
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Is this Democratic? Will there be Elections? Will there be different candidates?
Do you know how many Expat's there are and where they all live?
Do you think you will represent my views concerning the area I live in?
Will the view's of property owners not in full time residence be given the same vote?
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Sorry to be a little late in replying to this topic Andy. I do agree with the idea of a facility which can enable foreign residents/home owners to voice opinions or concerns on issues affecting them. Also as a means to receive accurate information on local issues as opposed to the old Chinese whispers. As already stated, there are numerous pitfalls but if a balanced approach can be achieved, I think that all members of the local community will benefit.
Cathy
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I was just thinking about this topic yesterday and that one thing I forgot to mention in my above post is how important it is to receive feedback.
This led me to wondering what if anything has actually happened since this topic was first posted and while appreciating that Andy is just the messenger it would be good to hear what if any thoughts there are on our views on the subject.
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I also think this would be a good idea. As many of have lived here for many years it would be informative to hear what is going on in our area and to be able to voice an opinion maybe. Most of the important issues in the past start off as rumours and then get added to. To be an integral part of the community this would be a great benefit.
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I think this is a very good idea and would like to hear more about the progress.
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I am with TurkishRod in remembering that there was a meeting in the council offices for such a organisation in 2005, Fethiye Times were there and had tabled questions also an article appeared on their website and in the Land of Lights.
Nothing happened after that meeting of 2005.
However,
Residents did complain regarding the state of their roads, 2005 complaints, 2010 residents complain because they are asked to pay up.
Mechanical beach cleaning machine, they are still building it at the sanai, but the beach is a huge improvement since and prior to 2003. and now the sun loungers are no-longer free.
Is there a pattern here? ask for improvements and what you once enjoyed for free now has to be paid for.
Keep asking and asking to change a country to better suit the ex-pat and the inexpensive council tax that we all benefit from will maybe rise to incorporate all these changes the expat want.
Strange, but now in the UK we have an influx of foreigners, and we complain like mad, they don't speak our language, they have their own language lines and translator available, they take our housing stock, they take from our benefit systems, and worst of all "They come to our country and turn it into their own". Sound a little familiar?
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loz I don't know a single ex pat that is on benefits in Turkey or can make claim to any such hand out assistance, but I know loads that pay taxes on purchases/banking/community charges and would like to see a fairer/equal return for these payments as others.
It is no secret that most residents in my village get a dirt road provided whilst locals get a proper road put in to the point they have even stopped before ex pats properties whilst doing others on the same road! Or street lighting requests are ignored or the tripling of rates on water knowing full well that the ex pat community will be hit the most as it only applies to anyone with a swimming pool! Still the council's should be loaded once their speed cameras and red light fines start rolling in, maybe they can divert that money back into relevant schemes to assist.
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I would like to add to this topic that not every foreigner living here has a gripe, not that there is anything wrong with constructive comments and feedback if its going to be useful and effect some sort of change.
Some people also have a lot to contribute - just like a lot of economic migrants and refugees have things they too can contribute in the UK if only they are given a chance! Many are highly intelligent, educated people with skills, qualifications and experience and would love the chance to give back to the communities that "welcome" them!!
PS what are those 4 stars above in place of whatever word it was that I typed - it was not a swear word?
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I saw another example earlier - can you PM me with the word you used? Thanks!
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I saw another example earlier too and amazing as this may sound I couldn't even remember what word I used just moments after I typed it. I think it might have been criticism or feedback! Sorry. If it happens again I will email you the word.
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I just got it same time as you posted - yes it was feedback. I was trying to prevent the use of another word that starts with f and ends in the same two letters but where the the other letter is starred out. What happened was that any word that starts with f and ended with ck was censored. Silly me.
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lol ;D
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oh frock!
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Firetruck !
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Does that mean 'count, pick and wink' are also a problem ?
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My sources tell me that...
"the up-to-date situation is the the whole idea has been shelved for the time being following a meeting with the main Kent Konseyı (City Council)".