Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: bluelagoon on February 02, 2013, 22:39:24 PM
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Please can someone advise me as to what month/date Ramadan is this year?
I've been told goats and sheep are publicly slaughtered at the end of Ramadan in places like Calis, I don't want to witness this cruel ritual so want to avoid it.
Thanks.
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Hi bluelagoon - can I ask who told you that
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I lived there for 5 years and never once saw anything like that.
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What you are thinking of is 'Kurban Bayram' (the feast of sacrifice) which will start around 14th October this year. It's not a public spectacle, a lot of village families sacrifice the animal of their choice in their backyards and it is done quickly, and with reverence, and a lot more humanely than one might expect in British abattoirs. I can assure you it's not 'streets running with blood'!!!
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Ramazan (turkish spelling) for 2013 is 9 July - 7 August
The slaughter of animals you mention is another festival called Kurban Bayramı (Feast of Sacrifice)
this year it starts on October 14th and lasts for approx 4 days.
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I have been in Turkey a few times during this time, you would have to go out of you way to see it or be invited to such an event by one of the local families.
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what you say cruel ritual is part of our religion!!!so please more respect. thank you
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I lived there for 5 years and never once saw anything like that.
Really, you should have gone for a walk in the other direction more often ;-)
But seriously it is very rare in the centre of Calis, the the turkish family living in the old white bungalow opposite the Sunday Market used to carry out this ritual.
The law changed sometime ago approx 2005 whereby the animals had to be taken to a specified location, however, some families of the old school prefer to still carry out the ritual in their own grounds. Fethiye council set up the site of the Tuesday market as a Kurban Bayram abattoir, at this time the flow of the river from the market to the sea ran red.
It is a traditional custom, respect it and get on with it.
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"It is a traditional custom, respect it and get on with it. "
thank you loz
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Really, you should have gone for a walk in the other direction more often ;-)
Very true actually - I know it was common "down the back" in Gunlukbasi as a tradition, a little further back you could visit Catalarik to see the time honoured tradition of someone getting their fingers smashed one at a time with a hammer. In Kus Cenneti land the only local tradition I saw was sticking our dead neighbour out in the street in his coffin so we could all have a look before taking him off for his funeral.
Vive la difference!
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When visiting a country on holiday accept their way of life, otherwise holiday in England!
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They didn't say they didn't want to accept it - they said they didn't want to see it.
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we were there once at this time and did see a few goats or sheep that were hanging up outside people's homes (looked like they had been skinned) and also saw a couple of goats turn up in a pick up truck opposite the hairdresser's we were at and a bucket and rather large knife were brought out, I did not want to witness what was going to happen next but kind of felt as though I wanted to see but then the goats were led round the back of the house....
Our property guy we with with took the time to explain about Ramadan and it was quite interesting to learn about it I was then actually quite pleased we had been there during this period....
I totally respected that it is part of Turkey and it's religion and culture....
maybe to the original poster of this thread Turkey is not the holiday destination for you....
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Karennina
Scunners answer applies. Why would someone not wish to holiday in Turkey just because they didn't want "to see" one particular ritual.
There must be many countries in the world which have rituals that other people find distasteful but it doesn't stop them gone on holiday to that country.
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I did not wish to see bullfighting but it did not stop me going to Portugal or Spain. In fact I used to go to Albufeira and stay in a hotel 1/2 a mile from the bullring.
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Fair point Highlander ;)
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We British don't like to see such barbaric activity. That's us British, who make effigies of a man from 500 years ago, then take our kids out to see him being burned on a big bonfire ;)
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...and we happily eat clotted blood and dare to call it pudding!
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I rest my case ;)
(http://s17.postimage.org/k5x0ymn8b/morris_dancing.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/k5x0ymn8b/)
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Me too
(http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/xmastree.jpg)
Religion makes us do things that would normally be quite ridiculous.
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Yep, it certainly does.
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t301/KayaKoyuWalker/imagesqtbnANd9GcRjJ_HF1e3BdcOu1Uokg.jpg)
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Thanks to everyone for your replies.
To Highlander:
An acquaintance of mine who used to be a holiday rep many years ago, she once witnessed the ritual slaughter of a goat somewhere in your area while she was out shopping, it made her quite ill.
To CleopatrasaAsp:
Thanks for explaining the ritual is not actually Ramadan.
To ytokgoz:
The slaughter of any animal in any country is cruel in my opinion. Whether for religious purposes or anything else ... I happen to believe that every living thing has a right to life. We are all entitled to an opinion.
To loz:
I cannot respect a tradition which carries out the slaughter of an animal, no more than I can respect British abbattoirs slaughtering animals.
It is all cruel, but I am intelligent enough to know that I cannot change these things.
I'm a vegan, an atheist and an animal lover, I have a hard time accepting any such practices.
To Scunner:
You've got it in one. Oh and I happen to think that Bonfire Night is totally awful, celebrating the death of a man who tried to rid us of political parasites is gross!! ;)
To Karennina:
Reading the part of your reply "maybe to the original poster of this thread Turkey is not the holiday destination for you", I think you have a point, although I know all countries have ways which not everyone finds to their liking, and we wouldn't go anywhere if we took that into consideration. But I do feel particularly uncomfortable about these things, it's my nature.
Thanks again for your replies. I'm going to think long and hard about visiting Turkey.
I'm thinking that maybe I shouldn't subject my children to such a culture, I know I can't protect them from all the bad things that happen in the world, but where I can I will.
Maybe Butlins would be a better option for them :)
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The Turkish/Muslim religion does involve the slaughter of animals, something I know about and accept, although I have never seen it. Slaughter of animals happens in all countries around the world. Perhaps you may remember seeing our own Queen clubbing to death a pheasant. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-206674/Queen-clubs-bird-death.html#axzz2JqFMnRcp Perhaps the Turkish people who kill their animals quickly and cleanly would hate to see this?.
I think your children would learn a lot in Turkey and find out just out just how the Turkish people love their children and are so kind and gentle with everyone else's children. Unlike the U.K. where we read daily of child abuse and cruelty.
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Yes, take them to Butlins...........but as an 'animal-lover' please do consider that those animals you love (and I will assume that includes carnivores) also slay other animals as a means of feeding themselves. You can't place human emotions/values onto animals.
I have no problem with not eating meat if that is your choice but please do be tolerant and realistic about it. Your post suggests you would be subjecting your children to some dreadful regime in Turkey. Our children can learn a lot from Turkish culture about respect, trust and good manners and in general day to day life in the UK there is little of that seen these days.
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Blue lagoon I do apologise for saying Turkey was maybe not meant for you I dont think I quite meant to word it like that. that will teach me to post early in the morning :)Turkey really is a lovely country maybe you could try it at a time when it is not Ramadan, hope wherever you decide to holiday you have a great time :)
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The event happens every year and speaking for myself I have witnessed this taking place and it is indeed done sympathetically and not by Jack the Lad from next door. The animal is treated with respect both prior to its demise and after.
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To Jacqui Harvey:
Please understand that I'm not having a go at the Turkish people, I'm sure they do treat their children kindly and everyone else's children ... but it's animals which are the issue here.
For the record the way the Muslim religion slaughters it's animals is by no means 'quick and clean'!!
The animals are hung up to bleed to death - slowly ... it's certainly not quick and is painful!! I can point you to some websites which explain the whole procedure - not for the fainthearted.
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To Bluwise:
Animals slay other animals to survive, they can't go to the local supermarket like human beings do can they? But humans have a choice whether they eat meat or not, animals are following their instinct to enable themselves to survive. So to suggest I'm trying to place human values onto animals is ludicrous!
I most certainly am realistic and tolerant regarding such issues, but I don't have to agree with it or partake in it.
I was referring to not wanting to subject my children to cruel practices such as the slaughter of animals. As a parent I think it's the right thing to do.
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To Karennina:
No apology needed, I understand what you meant ... and thank you.
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To daveG:
How can you call the killing of an animal sympathetic and respectful?!!! If there was any respect for the animal it wouldn't be done in the first place!!
How about we say that a murderer killed a child sympathetically and with respect!! I don't think many would go for that do you?
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Thanks to all your replies, I didn't come here for a confrontation ... just an answer to my question.
I've decided not to visit Turkey now, I'm not risking seeing anything barbaric.
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I fear that you are going to attract confrontation if you compare the murder of a child to the killing of an animal.
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We have a place in Calis and a farm next to us there. I see the animals all the time.
I have never seen anything barbaric. I have never even thought about seen anything of this sort. Calis is a holiday resort with lots of tourists the locals are not going to kill animals in public view.
It would be a shame to miss such a wonderful country for the reasons you mention. However, it's your loss and more importantly your children's loss. I am glad my Granddaughter will be over in Calis for two weeks this year and I have no fears she will see anything untoward. My daughter, who as been to Calis many time is a vegetarian and an animal lover and I know she would not take my Granddaughter anywhere where she would experience animal slaughter.
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I've decided not to visit Turkey now, I'm not risking seeing anything barbaric.
What a ridiculous comment - you have been told it is 4 days in October - why not go at any time before or after those 4 days if you don't want to see it!!!
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one day as we were going back to our villa we seen this ritual and i was taken by surprise and i was curious so stopped to watch as the sheep was killed ,then the family offered us some of the meat my hubbie said no and hurried me away
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To Bluwise:
Animals slay other animals to survive, they can't go to the local supermarket like human beings do can they? But humans have a choice whether they eat meat or not, animals are following their instinct to enable themselves to survive. So to suggest I'm trying to place human values onto animals is ludicrous!
I most certainly am realistic and tolerant regarding such issues, but I don't have to agree with it or partake in it.
I was referring to not wanting to subject my children to cruel practices such as the slaughter of animals. As a parent I think it's the right thing to do.
You completely missed my point.
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I think bluelagoon came here to engineer a situation and make a point - at which point she could devastate us by telling us she decided not to come to Turkey because they slaughter animals 4 days a year. Cynical of me I know.
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Your loss and that of your family. Turkey is a wonderful country, full of culture and history. So where will you go?
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I have been to the killing of a lamb and it was very quick..Prayers are said first. The family who bought it gave it out to all of their neighbours.. The only time in the year they eat meat because they cant afford to buy it. They do eat chicken because they all have them around there..
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I love being around at Ramadan, such a special time for Turkish people, (and the shops full of sweeties) much like our xmas without the commercialism, I'm sorry to be missing it :(
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We have been frequent visitors to Turkey for 12+ years, love animals and would never willing wish to witness the slaughter at Kurban. However, I am passionate about Turkey, its people and its culture. I totally respect the way of life and have received hospitality from Turkish families like I've never received anywhere else in the world. Kurban is a great time of celebration for Turkish families and its a honour to be included in their celebrations. Embrace other beliefs........if everyone had respect for religious differences and practices, the world would be a much better place. I'm sure you could avoid visiting in October, Turkey is stunning beautiful all year round. Don't deprive yourself, or your children of the wonderful spiritual world that is Turkey :)
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I had heard the Streets of Blood stories as well,
Mind you, I have also heard all of the following :
Never swim in the sea in Calis Bay – its polluted with Chromium from the old mine. (and don’t eat locally caught fish for the same reason)
Never use the air con at night if you are on the ground floor – burglars use it to inject sleeping gas so that they can break in.
Don’t rent a private villa – all the cleaners used by the Property managers have duplicate keys made and let themselves in at night to steal from you while you are out.
Don’t use a Property Manager if you own a villa – they all let their family stay in your villa in the winter.
Don’t go in October – that’s when all the bar owners kill the dogs they have had in their bar all summer to attract the tourists.
The Turkish government want to repossess all the properties sold to foreigners.
The Mutlu has been sold.
All the shoe shine boys are in the employ of the Mafia.
Don’t buy the meat wraps on the market – it’s all donkey meat
I could go on ................
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Oh. And one more ........
Efes will be 10TL this year .......................
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I don't often post on here but I do read the postings and feel this is one I want to comment on.
As an animal lover maybe Turkey is the place for you. Unlike the strays in England, the street dogs here are looked after, treated by vets and generally looked after by an entire commumity. You would be impressed.
I understand your desire to protect your children, but for you to say you do not want to subject them to Turkish culture is a shame. My grandsons, who I have always thought of as polite because of the way they have been raised (yes I am biased), came out to visit and were spellbound. The Turkish people treated them with respect and were delighted to get the same back. They were encouraged to learn basic turkish words and even now back in England when they talk to me on skype they are still practising. They are only aged 4 and 6 but loved every minute of being here and are eager to return. Family values in Turkey seem to me to be a much higher priority than England (appologies to all who don't agree with me) and I do believe you would have a good family holiday here.
You don't say how old your children are, but as much as you want to protect them, they should also be allowed to experience different cultures and decide for themselves how they feel.
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When I first came to Turkey, the streets were red with blood during Kurban Bayram. My neighbours used to hose down the streets after they were done if it wasn't raining.
Nowadays slaughtering should be done at assigned places but it still happens in gardens and such. You can find it if you want to, but you won't have to see it if you don't. Besides, you know when it is done so it is easy to avoid it. To me it isn't cruelty but part of religion and culture.
Since topicstarter is a vegan, he probably has different ideas about this. Choosing a different holiday destination won't really solve the problem in my opinion. In other countries cats and dogs might get kicked in front of you. The chairs on the plane might be made of leather. You might not find vegan meals in restaurants.
Maybe it is better that you stay in your own "safe" backgarden.
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Sorry hellbellz, but I don't find Turkey a good place for animals. Just because the big expat community in Calis looks after the strays, doesn't mean that Turks in general are good to animals.
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The Turkish government want to repossess all the properties sold to foreigners.
Or the once a year "They've changed it so foreigners can only sell their house to a Turk and they won't pay our inflated prices".
Brilliant post Phil, I thoroughly enjoyed that :D
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Well I have been holidaying in turkey for over 20 years and never witnessed a slaughter and I have been there many times during Ramadan and bayram. We have a very large Muslim community here in the UK so I would suggest it probably happens here to
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If people stopped slaughtering animals I would be out of a job!!!! I go to livestock markets 5 days a week, 6 days this week, I visit abattoirs and I eat meat. There I've said it!!!! Hate me if you like :D
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Phil I like the Aircon one as they would have to be in the room to put the gas through the fan
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Ah, the Feast of Sacrifice ... that reminds of when ... [see Turkish Tales].
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My goodness read all these posts about someone not going to Turkey, well on reflection i think Wales is now off my holiday radar far too many sheep for my liking!!