Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => Football => Topic started by: Piscoe on February 20, 2013, 12:06:29 PM
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So what's the general concensus, Wenger on his way out? Clearly he is losing the respect he once had and after last nights defeat to Bayern I am unsure whether he can survive this. I think if he doesn't qualify for CL this summer he is definitely out but wondering if he will make it that far.
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Although I dislike the current situation where clubs do not give managers a chance befoe they are paid off, in this instance I think he has had his time. He has been lucky to have the support from both the fans and more importantly the Arsenal board over a long time but even given this support the lack of silver has to become a consideration moving forward, especially without the all important CL qualification that they need.
They will keep him until the end of the season and then look at a change, they have given him such loyalty and the poistion will not change that much before then.
Maybe Jose will go there instead of coming back to CFC!!
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Be a sad day for the Spurs if they sack him ;)
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If Robin Van Persie was still at Arsenal this season... his goal tally would be the difference and maybe Arsenal would be challenging for a top two spot even.... but he`s not... and thats the difference this season
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Arsenal havent been in the top two for seven years even with RVP, Arsene took over a very good team and never replaced the stalwarts as time went on, they need a new Tony Adams :)
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Good point Tinks, but where would they get one, certainly not english,so in this stupid day and age since Abromovich came over and spent £300m on buying the best players in the world and paying them upwards of £200k a week, yes a week that is. same with man city, all bought sucess, sad days of English football, wonder how far our England team will get in next years world cup.
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about as far as they have got in the last forty years
why do you keep on bringing up RA and Chelsea evertime there is a football topic??
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Because you have just answered it yourself Tink, Chelsea, no league title for 40 years, in comes a russian billionaire and 2 league titles in sucsession, not rocket science is it. ;)
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Been saying it for the last two/three seasons, Arsene is now well beyond his sell by date. This season is a replication of the last three seasons at Arsenal, chances of winning something is dead by early March, and all that is left is to qualify for the Champions League, usually followed or accompanied by the departure of key players at the end of the season. Followed by Arsene saying he has his greatest squad of players ever, and he does not need to spend money la la la, you've all heard it .. the clubs spin doctors make releases around the time of season (and Club Level) renewals of big pots of transfer cash to spend anyway - take your pick £53 million, £70 million - then its not spent and then in the case of last year big panic buys and then we amble on with the will he, won't he, spend mid season - he never does with the exception of Arshivin but that was more to do with the timings of the Russian season - and like a roundabout it goes on this way.
In the mean time we have one of the biggest wage bills of any team in world - higher than Bayer - that has been mismanaged by Arsene, so that we have a number of below average and at best average players (chosen by Arsene) that we can't get shot off until their contract ends.
Time to move on Arsene........
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Because you have just answered it yourself Tink, Chelsea, no league title for 40 years, in comes a russian billionaire and 2 league titles in sucsession, not rocket science is it. ;)
whats it got to do with Arsene Wenger?
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Because you have just answered it yourself Tink, Chelsea, no league title for 40 years, in comes a russian billionaire and 2 league titles in sucsession, not rocket science is it. ;)
True Des! Think back to the last time the top league was won by a team not throwing bucket loads of cash at it. Arsenal are probably the closest in the Prem but you have to go back to my team, Leeds United to see a team put together on the cheap that won the top prize in this country.
Then came Sky and its crock of gold and every man and his dog was chasing the top four and CL football. That chase was the demise of Leeds and since then only those with wealthy backers have got anywhere near the title.
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Because you have just answered it yourself Tink, Chelsea, no league title for 40 years, in comes a russian billionaire and 2 league titles in sucsession, not rocket science is it. ;)
whats it got to do with Arsene Wenger?
That he's (Wenger) not a Russian Billionaire buying league titles??
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Been saying it for the last two/three seasons, Arsene is now well beyond his sell by date. This season is a replication of the last three seasons at Arsenal, chances of winning something is dead by early March, and all that is left is to qualify for the Champions League, usually followed or accompanied by the departure of key players at the end of the season. Followed by Arsene saying he has his greatest squad of players ever, and he does not need to spend money la la la, you've all heard it .. the clubs spin doctors make releases around the time of season (and Club Level) renewals of big pots of transfer cash to spend anyway - take your pick £53 million, £70 million - then its not spent and then in the case of last year big panic buys and then we amble on with the will he, won't he, spend mid season - he never does with the exception of Arshivin but that was more to do with the timings of the Russian season - and like a roundabout it goes on this way.
In the mean time we have one of the biggest wage bills of any team in world - higher than Bayer - that has been mismanaged by Arsene, so that we have a number of below average and at best average players (chosen by Arsene) that we can't get shot off until their contract ends.
Time to move on Arsene........
Thats funny, no mention of billionaires here? just your original thought on Wenger
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Tinx lighten up old son, it was a light hearted comment from me. The old 'buying the league' accusation is obviously hitting a sore point with you, can't understand why??
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Because you have just answered it yourself Tink, Chelsea, no league title for 40 years, in comes a russian billionaire and 2 league titles in sucsession, not rocket science is it. ;)
True Des! Think back to the last time the top league was won by a team not throwing bucket loads of cash at it. Arsenal are probably the closest in the Prem but you have to go back to my team, Leeds United to see a team put together on the cheap that won the top prize in this country.
Then came Sky and its crock of gold and every man and his dog was chasing the top four and CL football. That chase was the demise of Leeds and since then only those with wealthy backers have got anywhere near the title.
I detect a re-writing of history here, was this not during the period under the Chairmanship of Mr 'Big Spend' Peter Ridsdale, whose spending bankrupted the club and sent Leeds plummeting to the lower reaches of the league again. ;)
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;D you don't know me well enough ;D
if I lighten up any more Ill blow off the balcony 8)
;D ;)
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"I detect a re-writing of history here, was this not during the period under the Chairmanship of Mr 'Big Spend' Peter Ridsdale, whose spending bankrupted the club and sent Leeds plummeting to the lower reaches of the league again. "
Once again your football knowledge lets you down UBT ;-)
Leeds United won the last ever First Division title under Howard Wilkinson. He spent very little buying the likes of Strachan, Chapman and Cantona and bringing through the likes of Gary Speed and David Batty.
Lukic
Sterland Whyte Fariclough Dorigo
Strachan MacAllister Batty Speed
Chapman Wallace
The Chairman then was Leslie Silver. Ridsdale was later - in the Premier League - and he chased the 'holy grail' of the Champions League by borrowing on future season ticket sales.
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Like the banter but who would you rather be a supporting, a team with a russian billionaire who at least challenges or wins things or just sitting there trying to believe that a prudent financial model which I agree with in principle but does not lead to titles/silverware with a manager who has managed from time to time to play some nice football but not one anything, well for a while.
Most supporters want their club to win whatever league they are in, even the dad down with the under 12's on a Saturday wants the team to win. That's the point if not there is none!!
Think I know where I stand...good old Roman!!
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But who are you supporting teetee, the team with the English name, i-e manchester, chelsea, liverpool, arsenal, spurs etc, then watch all their players from abroad do the scoring. then come an international game, i-e spain v england and for example the spaniard scores and the reaction is ah well good goal he does play for man city of course, patriotic to england or what. ;) :)
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I am not looking at this from a nationalistic perspective, I really could not care less about the nationality of the owner of the club, particularly in the UK where we constantly sell off our countries assets anyway!!. However, the business model of Abramovich or Manc City arabs is not economically sustainable, and is not good for competition in football terms played out in the Premier League, where there are increasingly just two or three teams competing for the title, and the rest chasing CL places at best, and avoiding relegation, and increasingly bankruptcy as a result, at its worst. I think Billionaires taking over clubs and the being allowed to buy their way to success has done great harm to English football in terms of the development and opportunity for English players (and indeed Scottish, Welsh and Irish) to play in the Premiership, and as a result it has done great harm to the England national team too.
Contrast this, for example, with the German model operating in the Bundesliga. Great football being played, superb stadiums where ticket prices are in many cases half the price of Premiership clubs, where the football is still grounded - and this should raise some responses - in working class support, where people are happy to cheer and sing to support their club, where a father can still afford to take his children to football. The clubs are financially sound, and this long term approach is paying off in football terms too. Look at the CL, three German clubs won their groups to qualify for the knock out rounds, only One English team done that, and in fact only one other english qualified for the knock out rounds!! A higher percentage of germans playing in the league when compared to english in the PL, and the German national team continues to be one of the best teams in Europe and indeed the world.
I know which model I'd prefer to have........
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Its not all about players wages and winning trophies.
MANCHESTER CITY FOOTBALL CLUB HAVE SUBMITTED PLANNING APPLICATION FOR A PROPOSED YOUTH DEVELOPMENT AND FIRST TEAM TRAINING CENTRE.
The Club has today submitted a planning application following a six-week period of public consultation with local residents, fans and other interested parties, for a proposed youth development and first team Academy in the Openshaw West area of East Manchester.
The Club’s exhibition, which showcases the proposals and was a central component to the public consultation, attracted in excess of 7000 visitors online and in person and revealed a 97% approval rating from respondents. Opinions of the residents of East Manchester helped to shape the Club's planning application, the completion of which is expected towards the end of the year.
The proposed development of up to 80 acres of brown field land diagonally opposite to the Etihad Stadium and acquired by the Club over the past two years, would, should planning permission be granted, form part of the Etihad Campus as announced in early July this year.
The Club is pleased to release new visual images of the proposed facility, which form part of the application submitted to Manchester City Council and which are available for public viewing from today.
Key elements of the planning submission are as follows:
FOOTBALL DEVELOPMENT
Manchester City has entered a new phase in the long term strategy set out by the Club’s owner three years ago. At the heart of this strategy is the focus on the recruitment and development of young players and whilst the Club already has a strong pedigree of nurturing young talent, the limits of what can be achieved with the existing facilities has been reached.
A comprehensive study by the Club of more than 30 elite sports development centres around the world over the past two years, has provided the blueprint for the plans submitted today. The potential realisation of these plans, together with the Club’s Academy Development Plan - an 18-month research program into youth development best practice - would signify the single most important investment in the Club to date.
The building of such a facility and the roll out of the Academy Development Plan would not only provide the Club with a competitive edge in terms of recruitment of players of all ages, but would also more than meet the requirements for a grade 1 Academy as set out by the Premier League's new Elite Player Performance Plan.
All aspects of the Club’s youth development, first team training and operations functions would be brought into the one location in the heart of East Manchester and would include:
A home for up to 400 young players who will train and study alongside senior players, with a clear development pathway to the first team
One half size and 11 full size youth development pitches
One half size and 4 full size first team pitches
On site sleeping accommodation and classroom facility for 40 young players to allow them to train and study in a safe and secure environment
A carefully planned first team building with changing rooms, gym, refectory and injury and rehab centre
A 7,000 capacity stadium for youth matches
Staff offices and a dedicated media centre
A bridge linking the site to the Etihad Stadium and the rest of the Etihad Campus
REGENERATION - ECONOMY AND ENVIRONMENT
Subject to approval, the Club’s proposals would also build on the legacy of the Commonwealth Games in this priority area of the UK in terms of regeneration needs.
Around 160 construction jobs would be created during the project, 70% of them for local people. Permanent employment at a range of levels for up to 90 people is also likely with up to 80% of positions being made available for local residents. The Club is also committed to local sourcing of materials, equipment and services for the operation and construction of the proposed site.
The remediation of up to 80 acres of land alone would improve the local environment, which would be further enhanced by the planting several hundred new trees and almost a mile of yew and beech hedging around the perimeter of the site and all construction operations would be conducted under the highest possible environmental standards with low carbon, low water and low waste measures being employed to minimise impact on the environment and encourage local bio diversity.
Improved transport links - with the advent of two Metrolink tram stations due in 2012- together with the construction of a landmark pedestrian footbridge will bring further regenerative benefits to the area.
COMMUNITY
Manchester City Football Club’s strong commitment to its community began at its inception in 1880 and that commitment is still at the heart of the organisation. The award winning City in the Community scheme touches 200,000 lives a year, a figure which would rise significantly should the above proposals be endorsed.
The plans would enable the Club to widen its community reach, together with partners Etihad Airways, as it expands its programs around Football, Health and Activity, Community Cohesion and Skills and Enterprise.
The Club has already provided additional football facilities to be used by more than 10,000 local young people a year at the Football and Tennis Centre adjacent to the Etihad Campus and use of the proposed 7,000 capacity stadium and certain pitches on the site would increase that figure substantially.
Significantly, Manchester City Football Club has also dedicated up to 5.5 acres of the 80 acre site to further community use, which, led by Manchester City Council and reflecting local feedback, could include the building of an education facility and a Sports Institute.
Manchester City Football Club will also make a financial contribution towards proposed leisure facilities in the area which could include the creation of a swimming pool and potential future educational facilities.
Brian Marwood, Chief Football Operations Officer of Manchester City Football Club, said: “We are delighted that so many people have taken part in our public consultation, visiting the exhibition and responding so positively to our proposals.
"The feedback we have received points to a wide recognition by both local residents and fans of the significant regenerative and economic benefits of these proposals for the East Manchester area , which should not be underestimated.
"It is important to also make clear that the development and recruitment of youth talent is at the heart of our long term strategy of building a successful and sustainable football club for the future. The opportunity to build a world class facility supported by a well researched youth development plan would be a significant step in the realisation of that strategy.”
Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester City Council, said: "The Etihad Stadium and Campus are at the heart of the regeneration of the wider East Manchester area and these plans will help accelerate that positive transformation.
"We welcome the principle of this proposed development which reflects not only the needs and priorities of the football club, but recognises and reflects the community's priorities too. It's another welcome demonstration of the club's commitment to the area and a boost for East Manchester and the city as a whole.
"This would not just be about creating another world-class sporting facility in the area, it will also create jobs and other opportunities for local residents. It's one of the earliest manifestations of how the partnership between Manchester City Football Club, the Council and New East Manchester will deliver significant community and economic benefits in the years ahead.
"It is also very significant that the club are setting aside land for community use. This will enable us to bring forward complementary proposals for additional community facilities which could include a new swimming pool and leisure hub."
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I am not looking at this from a nationalistic perspective, I really could not care less about the nationality of the owner of the club, particularly in the UK where we constantly sell off our countries assets anyway!!. However, the business model of Abramovich or Manc City arabs is not economically sustainable, and is not good for competition in football terms played out in the Premier League, where there are increasingly just two or three teams competing for the title, and the rest chasing CL places at best, and avoiding relegation, and increasingly bankruptcy as a result, at its worst. I think Billionaires taking over clubs and the being allowed to buy their way to success has done great harm to English football in terms of the development and opportunity for English players (and indeed Scottish, Welsh and Irish) to play in the Premiership, and as a result it has done great harm to the England national team too.
Contrast this, for example, with the German model operating in the Bundesliga. Great football being played, superb stadiums where ticket prices are in many cases half the price of Premiership clubs, where the football is still grounded - and this should raise some responses - in working class support, where people are happy to cheer and sing to support their club, where a father can still afford to take his children to football. The clubs are financially sound, and this long term approach is paying off in football terms too. Look at the CL, three German clubs won their groups to qualify for the knock out rounds, only One English team done that, and in fact only one other english qualified for the knock out rounds!! A higher percentage of germans playing in the league when compared to english in the PL, and the German national team continues to be one of the best teams in Europe and indeed the world.
I know which model I'd prefer to have........
Excellent reply UBT.
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Ok I agree with the way football has gone and in an ideal world the likes of Roman et all would not be allowed to operate in the way that they have been allowed to. And that is the point our Football Association has never had the will or inclination to adopt a more sustainable model for the way our football in run.
As a consequence of this toothless attitude we are in the situation that we find ourselves in and unless something drastic happens, which I doubt will be the case as there are too many snouts in the trough for this to happen.
So we have little alternative than to accept the good and bad in the English football setup and enjoy some of the best football on its day in the world.