Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Expat & Property Owners Q and A Forum => Topic started by: Scunner on May 15, 2013, 20:12:58 PM
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I've thought this for a long time and more recently seen plenty of supporting evidence.
It seems to me that leaving the UK "permanently" often results in a return for the majority within 4-6 years on average. We left the UK for the utopia that seemed to be called Turkey and after a few years everything that had seemed funny or "just one of those things when you live here" start to grate a little and by 5 years we were ready to get back to the drizzle of the UK.
We left the UK forever, no doubt about that - the intention was to live our lives out abroad - but once the novelty value started to wear we also started to see that the UK had it's good points too. Judging by the numbers returning in recent times, we are far from alone. I know some people have been there for far longer and some do intend to see out their remaining years there but there seems to be more who "hit the wall" at around 5 years and head back to what they know best.
I wonder - does emigration have a built in time limit for us Brits?
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For me it was the other way round. I came from lovely, hot Oz many years ago to rainy cold London and loved it. I did not miss the Sydney sunshine, the humidity or the mozzies. Seems that only now, with kids grown up, that I hanker for a simpler life in the sun. It's good to have a foot in both camps!
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Somewhat strangely, it was the fact that this particular life in the sun was anything but a simpler life that convinced me to call time on our adventure :)
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very interesting post Keith... when we bought our apartment six years ago I would have sold up everything in the uk (had it been possible) and gone like a shot to live in Turkey thankfully hubby is more sensible and grounded then me!!!....The last six years have been a great learning curve indeed. I had not even spent a July or August in Turkey when we purchased a property and to say the heat of August was a shock was an understatement, the last few years I have realised I am not saying to people any more "ooh I want to live in Turkey" I do still love it there and would like to be able to spend longer periods out there but definetely do not want to live there anymore....but good on the people that do want to make the move an make their dream a reality :)
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Thought provoking post there Scunner.
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My son arrives back home next month after five years in Thailand. Must have the same itch :)
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I only wish to provoke thoughts Jim, that's my job on here ;)
We used to sit people watching at our chosen kebap place on a Sunday - and spend half our time eating and half our time waving. This year our travel dates meant we weren't in town for the Tuesday market or indeed the Calis Sunday market. But last year, we sat at our usual place and didn't see anyone we recognised at all.
Economics plays a part I am sure, those living on interest from savings are seeing prices going up and interest rates going down on a slow but consistent basis. But my feeling was that spending 40 minutes in a queue at the Telecom only to discover that you should be in the other queue starts as an amusing story to tell your mates, and 5 years later ends as another reason to slit your wrists ;)
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A very thoughtful post.
The simple life is easy to want but
A lot harder to do it seems.
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My son arrives back home next month after five years in Thailand. Must have the same itch :)
Not necessarily Stoop. People come back from Thailand with a whole manner of itches. ;)
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Funnily enough Billy and I were talking about this very subject only last night.
When we bought our apartment seven years ago it was for holidays with a view to selling and buying a villa to live full time when we retire.
Now, reading everything we do on here I've a feeling our place in the sun will be a distant memory long before then.
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After 6 years here we are stıll lovıng ıt. We planned to lıve abroad on retırement and chose here. It does not tıck all our boxes but 90% of them. Wıll we ever return to UK? Who knows. July and August are a trıal but bearable ıf I dont have to go anywhere but the pool. I sometımes mıss a few thıngs (not many though) and would love a long sandy beach but on the whole I can see us stayıng here for a long long time.
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Eight years on and still love my small piece of paradise and yes thats what Calis is to me, despite it looking like the Beirut most of the time. You have to the patience of a saint with regard to red tape(but you do in the UK too) and building works etc. I am an outdoors person and there's not many days when I get up that I cant just step outside. Its 7.30ish, still in bed with my cuppa and laptop with all the doors and windows open with views all around. I feel part of a small community here and there's never enough hours in the day for me. I also have this sense of freedom that I dont feel in the UK. Maybe thats becuase I am retired now but I know we could never afford the lifestyle we have here, in the UK. We dont have a car, dont want one, but with buses going everywhere at low cost its not a problem. If I added up the cost of all the activities that I do and going out couple of nites out a week it would probably equate to one night out in the UK.
There are good and bad, wherever you live but for me the good here outwieghs the bad, so I'm stopping!!!!!!
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Five and a half years now and no thoughts of moving, and if we were to move it would not be to the UK.
Life is still good, there are not enough hours in a day. If we returned to the UK, we would more than likely be stuck in the house when not working, we would have to work as there is no way we could live on my pensions back there, yet here we have a very good way of life as well a good social life.
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8 years and still happy, and if for some reason we couldn't stay in Turkey then our next destination would not be the UK....
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At one time I noticed quite a few people leaving but most of them needed to work here and there are a multitude of reasons why that combination doesn't work out here.
I don't see people leaving in droves but in the main, we are an older community of expats and so you would always expect to see people leaving for health reasons etc.
I get the point about becoming frustrated about the way things work, or should I say don't work here, yesterday I spent an hour in a bank waiting to pay my SGK which I do around this time every month only to be told when I finally reached the cashier, there are no debits showing on your account? But hey ho !
Anyway, I'll check back on this one in 4 years time and let you know. Never say Never !
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This is our 9th year and although we are still pretty happy we do not plan to stay forever, we never have to be honest. It's changed a lot here over the years and not necessarily for the better. We're not sure where we will end up and we have no desire to return to the UK to live...couldn't afford to anyway without working! I have always wanted to get a camper and just take off...still trying to convince Phil though. There's a big world out there and it's quite exciting talking about all the places we have yet to experience.
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we have been living to Calis for five years,and still love it,made many friends here,when in UK we had a moter home, travelled all
round Europe, came to Turkey decided to move here sold the moter home and havnt looked back since,
family& friends come out and visit us and they enjoy it,so staying putt at the moment
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My son arrives back home next month after five years in Thailand. Must have the same itch :)
Not necessarily Stoop. People come back from Thailand with a whole manner of itches. ;)
Haha! Brilliant! Must convey that to him :)
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When Barrie and I came here 6 years ago we had every intention of making fethiye our "forever home" however thoughts have changed and we are now heading back at the beggining of June after 8 years owning here and 6 years living here... I had said up until the last 12 months that I would never go back but events sometimes take over... In truth if it wasnt for being on the 3CS charity we may have gone back sooner.. It gave us a social life... More fun than we could have imagined... Such good friends and a reason to get up in a morning... I would never have done a para glide. Gone in the sea on new Years day... Helped to Organise the best all day concert in Calis.. Been part of the best Calis Carnivals.. Been part of Bozalan...been an events co ordinator and best of all "The health and safety officer for the charity" lol... yes we do have health and safety.!! The hours we spent together in the early days of the Carnival committee and now the 3cs will stay with me forevever... The fun and the laughs..They outway the negative aspects of trying to get blood out of a stone and the self serving attitudes of SOME of the bars that think we are there just for them... But most of all the reaction of the Children at Bozalan whose video I still cant watch without filling up... All the schools we have been too.. The disabled girl and her family who we gave the electric wheelchair too which changed hers and her families lives forever and the many many more children we have met.. I need to give a SPECIAL mention. To Barb. of course who has dragged me into allsorts of situations all fun.. She will says its me of course... Peter and Chrissie who Invited me to join their committee because they thought I would be an "asset" and have the greatest respect for.. Jan. Rod, Mark J. Graham. Kevin.Mick. Bees hubby The original "crew" still working so hard for the charity and I still love all of them even after the disagreements lol .Barrie of course who has given more support than you could imagine.. putting up with our home being like Steptoes yard when I did the internet selling and getting up with me to every car boot at 5.a.m..
and last but NOT LEAST Highlander..Scunner... Whose private messages of support this last few months have been wonderful. AND CBF because we probably would never have come to live here in the first place without it.. The info and support from the members has been simply amazing... Thank you all so much.. gonna have a cry now....
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It's a well known saying that you get out of life what you put in. Boy do you deserve to have had so much pleasure from helping the children.
Good luck for your return to the UK. Hope you settle back in and don't miss Calis too much.
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Anne's situation is so close to ours in 2008 it's amazing. We don't regret living there (far from it), we still love to visit, but when time to go appears it's easy to spot. I lost count of the number of people who gave me a knowing look and said "we know why you are leaving" - and I never asked any of them what they thought it was, but I am sure not one of them had a clue.
We just felt it was something we really wanted to do, and that after 5 years we had pretty much done it. Cue 500 entirely different stories in Calis all giving the "real reason"..!
The UK hasn't all gone to the dogs like some say when they leave for sunnier climes. I think maybe I even claimed that. The UK is bloody good at many things and if you want to know what they are, go and live in another country for while. We appreciate the UK for things we never gave any thought to before moving away. I still get excited about visiting Calis and Fethiye, but I find I don't need to live there, I can do everything I want in a week with ease.
Finally, all the best of luck to Anne and Barrie - two fabulous people we have had the pleasure of knowing through the coincidence that is a mutual love of the area. Their return is most certainly Fethiye's loss. Good luck with the life story - next chapter coming up :)
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Give my partner in crime 3mths and she will be organising raffles, books sales and all sorts for an English Charity. Have her advised to join some sort of "do good" work as its a great way of making new friends and having a social life. She will have to anyway, otherwise will be carted off to the looney bin, as she cant sit still or keep quiet for 5mins!!!! We have done so much together, some very good and some bad. After the 2nd time of meeting her we went to the Hisaranou Carnival (well a few barmen with war paint on and a very funny band) and we stayed for the concert, on the way home she was dying for a piddle and p-ssed all over my foot. Now thats how good friendship is made lol. Everytime we go out in the car we get lost, even in Calis, cos its natter natter, chat chat. I really dont know how I shall survive without her and sobbed for 3 days when she told me and get this orrible sinking feeling in my stomach when I think about it. I understand their reasons for the return to the UK and admire her for her courage in embracing it. Mick and I wish them all the luck in the world(not that they will need it), rotweillers are very resilient. Love her to death.
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Anne
A decision borne out of love and consideration for others rather than oneself is both courageous and must be the right one.
Brenda and I send you and Barrie all our love and hope everything works out for the very best.
(http://s21.postimg.org/67uyjknur/single_rose1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
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Anne and Barrie, Pete and I will miss you more than you will ever know and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts for your help, strength, support and determination over the the last 5 years. You are the stalwarts from the original carnival committee who have helped us get things done over the years despite all of the problems encountered, and by god have there been loads! You Anne are the rottweiler who gets her teeth stuck in and won't let go until you achieve your objective and although the 3C's will roll on, things wont be the same without your tenacity and commitment. We wish you both all the best luck for your new life back in UK and really hope that you are happy there. But like we have said, you won't get rid of us that easy as our family live only a few miles from where you are settling so all we can say is watch out, P & C are about!
As for the 5 year itch thing, we have now had a property here for 10 years, have been living here for 6 years (well about 10 months out of every year anyhow) but we still have a place in UK and would never give this up. Who knows what lies around the corner or what next year may bring - we are keeping our options open and as long as we can afford to do so, always will.
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Iwas coping really well with the move until I read CBF tonight.. I am am becoming very emotional over leaving The 3CS... and all of it supporters.. I have had dozens and dozens of msgs. from here and FB pages as I am the internet seller for the shop and as a result have made lots of contacts and collected loads of donations from people who now know us.. This wont stop just because I have left.. The next person just wont be as funny and attractive as me of course..and I am working until the bitter end.. xx
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OMG Mercury!!!! This is a shock Anne. I cant believe you're heading back to the UK. Hope to see you before you leave. What a big huge miss you'll be. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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I have lived in 'Oz' for 10 years then returned to UK. Have owned our house in Calis 12 years but never stayed more than 3 months in a year. This enables us to explore the country without yet getting tired of it. Still like to visit other parts of the world as well. If I had my way I would have a little bolt hole on every continent.
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My son said to us when he found out we were going that he would give us 5 years there. Always said if we have 5 years then we will be happy with that. 8 years and still here. We have had our ups and downs here and saw many of our friends move back to Britain. Barking dogs, cockerals, red tape, and being ripped off are the downsides of turkey for us but really I suppose nowhere is perfect. Would we go back, never say never, cause you don't know what the future holds. I joined cbf before I came here and although I don't often post I must admit it has helped me through years of staying here. Thank you for that Keith cause the itching hasn't started yet.
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You are very welcome :)
Findik's mention of Australia reminds me of another aspect relating to people returning home. Statistics show that marriage breakdowns amongst expats are consistently and alarmingly higher when living abroad. In Australia one in four couples split up within three years of emigrating and in Dubai it is four rimes more likely than the local's rate and 30% higher for Brits than it was 4 years ago.
Reasons given include the loss of supportive friends and family on hand to help in times of stress, money worries brought on by the global slowdown, and spending less time apart. In other words, I didn't know just how big a dick you were when you were away working all day every day ;)
There is certainly evidence of a higher relationship failure rate amongst expats in Calis and Fethiye in my opinion. Not trying to make the whole idea sound horrific or that people considering such a move should be filled with dread for the future. Just stating facts and hopefully stimulating thought and discussion.
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All the very best to you and Barrie with your move Anne, I felt a bit weepy on reading your post :( jolly well done for all the wonderful work you (and all the other 3C's helpers )have done over the years for the children :)
The posting by the other Anne is so similar to our situation, we too bought a small place to start with with a view of downsizing in UK later and purchasing a villa later on for our retirement (the amount of places we have been in and had a nosy round) ;)and whilst we still love Calis I have most certainly taken off my rose coloured glasses in the last I would say 1 to 2 years... In my heart of hearts I know what has changed it for me is being there for the earthquake last year it was a good thing (in a strange way) to experience it but has made me realise I am not cut out to live in a country that is prone to earthquakes...
Also to hear of the unsavoury characters that seem to be cropping up more and more (the lads that were threatened with the machette the other week)the man in the computer repair shop,the buildings that have sprung up near us when we were told six years ago the land would not be getting built on >:( it does start to have a bit of a blight on things in general.....
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I heard about the earthquake some time after it happened and when I asked some people in Fethiye about it - they dismissed my concerns, as if it was such a common occurrence it was hardly worth mentioning.
What was it like?
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Didnt even know it had happened till I read it on here but it was very early in the morning!!
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Sorry I was referring to last June's one ;)!!did not want to think too much about this week's one...
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Wrong topic? Earthquake? Five year itch?
:)
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I agree with everything you said karrenina.. What used to be quaint. here aint anymore. Its downright annoying sometimes... We came with Barrie having already surviving 20 years more than the doctors predicted and we also came here with the attitude that if we had 5 good years we would be luckier still... but after a bad scare a couple of months ago sealed our descision to go back..His and our lives have certainly been better than we could have imagined but truthfully its not a country to be disabled in... The places we originally were always going to visit I have mostly had to go without him but with friends because they are inaccesible to him. We arent moaning about this. Its just how it is for us. We are pleased we did it and will never have any regrets that we tried it..
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Who would be the longest running Fethiye area CBF member expat, and how long have they been here?
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I have just come across this post and found it very interesting, particularly as I started a post asking what the situation was regarding people returning to the UK etc. I was ridiculed (nothing new as I am obviously NOT one of the 'in team). Your post answered what I had personally observed and I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. The grass does look greener but I think that 5 years on, people start to think differently and by 8 years many people take the decision to return 'home'.
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I started a post asking what the situation was regarding people returning to the UK etc. I was ridiculed (nothing new as I am obviously NOT one of the 'in team).
1. You were not ridiculed
2. People who never miss an opportunity to criticise what we do here rarely feel part of the "in crowd"
3. Quit complaining, you do it even in posts you make on subjects that have nothing to do with how the forum is run. Such as this one.
4. If you (or anyone else) don't like the way we do things there is no requirement to come here. You have huge clarity on how a forum should be run (even though your experience of actually doing it is zilch) and I have spent 10 years suggesting to people who know better than us to get on and set up a rival forum and show us how it is done. In those 10 years few have put their superior forum administration knowledge into practice, and the few that did are no longer around.
5. I'd humbly suggest if you do set up a forum, that you avoid the whole accusing old British women/desperate for sex with local men area of discussion. They tend not to like that.
The rest of your post was ok though.