Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Jacqui Harvey on January 19, 2014, 18:49:46 PM
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Wasn't Hitler smacked as a child?
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Not hard enough
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If it is acceptable to hit a child then it should follow that is acceptable to smack someone of equal standing and size as in say another adult.
Try that as a way of teaching them respect for others; something to while away the time while you're sitting in a cell :)
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A smack never did me or any of my eight, yes, eight siblings any psychological damage whatsoever. If more children were faced with some type of proper familial discipline, perhaps we would have less vulnerable people being mugged, in public, on our once safe streets. For every action, there is a consequence, but, due to "political correctness", today's youth are totally ignorant, and blasé about this. The old adage ; "spare the rod , spoil the child", is more evident nowadays .
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Have you undertaken any sort of physical or psychological assessment to determine whether or not your smacks did you any harm or not or is that just a self assessment based on your own personal opinion.
People smack/hit/lash out when they are frustrated and lack the ability or skills to discipline in a non violent way. When people smack/hit/lash out it is usually a sign that they are feeling out of control.
Some people legislate in these situations other just beat up kids behind closed doors or do it in public to prove what good parents they are.
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Sometimes it really is necessary. Eg when my child ran out on to the road in busy traffic. It's a fine line but I needed to show my child it was wrong. How do we train dogs? I would rather a quick slap than a dead child. I also was smacked (not beaten) occasionally as a child but nothing that I didn't know I deserved. No harm done - I love my (now deceased) dear loving parents who through their wisdom made me one too. ;)
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i was hit with a leather belt until i got too old never done me any harm ,but i never hit my children or grandchildren with one
they got the odd slap very rarely
it was better to take their toys away and sent to bed early
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Sometimes it really is necessary. Eg when my child ran out on to the road in busy traffic. It's a fine line but I needed to show my child it was wrong. How do we train dogs? I would rather a quick slap than a dead child. I also was smacked (not beaten) occasionally as a child but nothing that I didn't know I deserved. No harm done - I love my (now deceased) dear loving parents who through their wisdom made me one too. ;)
No more to be said for me. Agree 100 %
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I agree, to, I was smacked, not beaten by my Mum and I loved her to bits she was my best friend when I grew up and we got on so well. I miss her every day. I think I grew up well and I am not damaged and I am not a violent person.
I gave my kids a smack on the bum if they did anything badly wrong, they are now grown and well adjusted adults who I am very proud of.
I also think that us parents who have experienced having children know the score.
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I agree too - you want to try having twins if you truly believe there is no need to smack kids. Not beat them or harm them, just a significant smack to let them know that what they are doing won't be tolerated. In this way, as they get older the situations requiring such discipline should diminish - till you get to where we are today, no need for it at all. I'm lucky, I can scare them to death with my voice nowadays ;)
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Have you undertaken any sort of physical or psychological assessment to determine whether or not your smacks did you any harm or not or is that just a self assessment based on your own personal opinion.
People smack/hit/lash out when they are frustrated and lack the ability or skills to discipline in a non violent way. When people smack/hit/lash out it is usually a sign that they are feeling out of control.
Some people legislate in these situations other just beat up kids behind closed doors or do it in public to prove what good parents they are.
I openly admit to feeling out of control at times when I had a 2-3 year old behaving very badly and that's because you can't reason with them. Reasoning is a two way thing and they are toddlers, they don't always acknowledge or understand any legislation. I never hit or lashed out but I did smack maybe two or three times in their lives and there is a difference.
I am genuinely interested to know how you would discipline a child who is having a tantrum or persistently putting themselves in danger (running in the road, going near the fire, reaching up to the cooker etc) or hurting others.
My granddaughter went through a phase of biting - it was awful! She got over excited or was squeezing you tight for a cuddle and next minute…ouch! This went on for a couple of months and all sorts of things were tried - naughty step, no toys, strong telling off so I suppose we were 'out of control'.
She stopped when her Mum smacked her bottom.
There are people who beat their kids up behind closed doors and that horrendous behaviour sounds like what you are describing not a smack delivered with love and care.
I would rather see a really badly behaved child receive a quick smack than put up with screaming and tantrums over a length of time in a shop, restaurant or wherever.
I was on the receiving end of the occasional smack from my Mum and boy did I deserve the one I remember most. It was for being really cheeky to her and "answering back' It never stopped me loving her and feeling loved and protected. That taught me to respect my elders and regardless of what I was thinking, I was never rude or cheeky again…….until I became a morose teenager but at that point I could indeed be reasoned with as the groundwork had been done.
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A very honest and sensible post Bluwise .
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My dad had a leather barbers strop that I felt on my bare bum once. My sin - skating on the frozen canal which was strictly against orders. Therefore fully deserved. I never had one and only slapped my son once. Nearly always, I could chastise my kids with a frosty glare.
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Wives show more respect to their husbands when regularly beaten. See Turkey.
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Without quoting all of Bluwise' post I agree with everything there. I admit to smacking my daughters occasionally when they were little. That's smacking, not beating, and they knew then they'd done wrong. I now have two lovely, loving, well-adjusted daughters who show respect for others and know how much we love them too. I was only talking to my eldest daughter the other day about people who beat babies and young children so their arms and ribs are broken in several places, or have cigarette burns on their body. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how people can do that to tiny, innocent children and what I would do to them is unprintable!
But an occasional smack on an unruly toddler is not the same thing. I now have an adorable 2 year old grandson and would probably kill anyone who harmed a hair on his head! But at 2 he needs discipline too and it's down to individuals to decide what way is best for them and their children.
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I agree entirely with Bluwise and Marina, yes my girls both got smacked as little ones, and generally when I was at the end of my tether, but would I smack the back of an adults hand or across the back of the leg?, no more than I would give someone a black eye. Too ridiculous for words. I think perspective is the key.
BUT.... it breaks my heart to pieces if my grandchildren get a slap, I just can't bear it. Double standards I know. My heart has got softer with age. :-\
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are people seriously arguing that striking a minor is ok?
My dad taught me that he dosent hit me so that means that no one else can, i have great respect or that man
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Yes, I smacked my kids when I thought it necessary and they have all grown up to be caring and considerate adults and descend on us regularly to harvest our larder and share stories and jokes. On the other hand, I know a family that didn’t provide much of a structure for their kids, in which smacking is a key part, in my opinion, and are now struggling with multitudinous issues. Let’s understand the semantics here, smacking isn’t slapping, hitting, or striking.
In the pecking order of raising children I would suggest that admonishing a willful child with a smack to ensure they realise the dangers of running out into the road comes before you try to earn their respect, with the greatest of respect.
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ive got 3 great kids, they understood when we told them not to run into the road
each to there own, but for me its a big no.
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Well said jondo, a quick smack on the back on a hand or leg doesn't to my mind constitute striking. I have no regrets about the odd smack I gave my children when they were little, all children need some form of discipline however it's administered and I think we are now reaping the rewards of that now with the happy, close relationships we have with them.
But, as Scott and Lisa says, each to their own, I would never tell any parent that smacking is a must.
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I suppose the answer is - look at the kids today and compare them with the ones from our generation (who tended to get smacked if they stepped out of line). The is a very big difference.
Ok there are some wonderful young people out there (my two included) but it would be interesting to know how many of them were disciplined with a smack when they were younger.
Having said that I feel there should be an age cut off as smacking a toddler in order to teach them right from wrong is fine IMO - but hitting a teenager shouldn't be necessary really.
I don't agree with the brutality that was sometimes handed out by sadistic teachers but I do think the odd smack for the right reasons is ok.
Anyway banning it has not stopped those brutal, nasty parents from harming their children. It never will because it often goes on behind closed doors.
I was smacked, my kids were smacked, my brothers were smacked and I think we are all fairly normal people who respect others.
The other thing is - once smacked the threat is quite often enough in the future.
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is the reason behind it that we smack children when they are young because they dont understand?
should we also smack old people when they start to not understand? or would that not be right?
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Very noble Scott, but the proof of the pudding is in the person. You are welcome to meet my smacked children anytime to see how mentally scarred they aren't.
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im not saying they are, i just dont understand why people would do that to there children, i can only draw from my own experiences.
i had different rules, i wasnt allowed the Cain at school nor was my dads generation. but i can tell you when my dad called me i came, listened and did as i was told
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I am sure no one sets out imagining they're going to slap their little children. Actually thinking about and planning what to do and how to approach disciplining a child before hand goes a long way to determining what you actually do in practice. The same way you might plan for any other eventuality or situation in life, assuming you do!
There are many ways to discipline a child without smacking them. The trouble is there is often an instinctive reaction to dish out a slap because maybe you're frustrated, embarrassed or even scared.
Perhaps the most important thing you can do is actually talking with as opposed to at your children so they learn and understand the value of verbal communications is more powerful than shrieking and having a tantrum.
Let them scream and carry on as long as you don't give in they'll soon learn it isn't the way to get what they want. Put them in their room until they've calmed down; as puma says take away their toys, sit them on the quiet step etc. Or, show them using their toys what will happen to them if they for example run into the road or go too near the fire, or whatever it that's worried you!
Part of the main problem for children is inconsistent boundaries, eventually giving in to their demands some of the time and not others. They are children. They don't know any better. They learn from you and want and are looking to you for guidance on how to behave. If they learn that if they carry on and on and on that you will eventually give in then that is what they will do.
In fact children learn about two thirds of everything they will learn if life in their formative years so they aren't stupid at all and in fact can be quite manipulative.
Anyone who has seen the BBC little angels or even teen angels will have seen the dramatic improvements in children and teenagers behaviour in just a few weeks of applying consistent boundaries.
The trouble with violence against children, you may call it a little smack if you want, is what happens when it becomes more than that or its a bit harder than you intended. When a smack becomes a slap or a clump to the head because your child dodges the blow and falls over and is seriously hurt.
Everyone assumes that they are rationale and reasoning and probably they are most of the time. But anger is a nasty adrenaline fueled emotion and things can quickly get out of control.
BTW I have never ever seen a child screaming in the street shut up because of a slap; rather the reverse making it worse for everyone.
Finally, you'll be pleased to know, that sometimes there is something serious behind a child's bad behaviour. My niece became a cheeky little madam when she first started school. It was put down to her starting school and mixing up with the other children. Also there was a new addition to the family so the timing wasn't great. Anyway, the health visitor recommended sending her to her room which did seem to work.
However it transpired that my niece was being bullied at school and my sister in law only found out because she came across some cartoon drawings in my niece had done and hidden in her room - when she was there calming down!
In the work that I did before coming to Turkey a lot of the children and young people I worked with had come to the attention of Social Services (I wasn't a Social Worker) because of bad behaviour in school. They were all being sexually abused by "uncles" family members or friends of the family or teachers.
There are plenty of resources via Google search for parents who want to adopt a non violent approach to bringing up their children.
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Thanks Nichola,
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I like what Nicola has written and agree with her for quite a way. BUT ...
I am of the opinion that bringing up children is difficult and, in my experience, the only people who give you clear instructions about how to do it properly are those who have never actually done it. Those of us that have may start off with all sorts of wishes about how we will do it. We didn't want to ever hit our children but I can't say that it never happened. I am not proud of it but sometimes it seems the only way. I am pleased it was only three or four times in their lives. We also didn't want our children to become addicted to sugar by feeding them chocolate and sweets. The grandmothers soon scuppered that plan. You can't determine theoretically (e.g. hit or not hit) how to do it; you just have to struggle through the best you can.
I wonder how much difference it makes. People can come on here and say "I was smacked, and so were my kids, and there's nothing wrong with any of us". And then other people can say "I wasn't smacked, and neither were my kids, and there's nothing wrong with any of us". So what does this prove? Hilary and I are carnivorous atheists. Our two daughters are now in theirs 30s: one is a vegetarian and the other is a deeply committed Christian. Where did we go wrong? They are both also very beautiful - and that obviously is down to Hilary and nothing to do with me.
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In Sweden when they banned hitting children they also simultaneously implemented a massive education programme nationwide on alternative strategies and coping mechanisms.
As a result parents overwhelmingly reported that their changed behaviour towards their children resulted in dramatically better behaviour from their children. And the children also gave positive feedback and said that their relationships with their parents had improved.
In the UK when Labour was elected parenting classes were set up for parents whose children had come to the attention of Social Services. These produced some good results too for both parents and children. I doubt these services exist any more thanks to this governments "austerity cuts".
Good parenting to the best of my knowledge isn't taught in schools but in my opinion it should be. After all anyone can have kids but some people you wouldn't trust with a hamster!
These coping strategies and mechanisms would of course be useful in many aspects of daily life.
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Personally I don't see any harm in a smack when children are growing up and learning right from wrong. It certainly has not done me any harm.
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Britain banned any type of physical discipline in schools, that is why pupils can now ride roughshod over the teachers. How many of us can remember a black board rubber come whizzing past your ear, or "I am going to have a word with your parents" Today they look at you and shrug.
I remember a time sitting in a hospital waiting room, my son was only young, his appointment time came and went, he started to get fractious, throwing himself about as the pain got worse, I am his mum and knew that the signs were going to get worse and he was going to hit, so I pulled him to me and hugged him, he squirmed and shouted, A woman, came over to me and told me off for restraining him as it could be hurting him, that as a mother I should see this and telling me to let him go, so I thought well OK I will you bl00dy knowall do gooder, I let him go and he ran off in her direction and promptly kicked her in the shins.
Sometimes, these do gooders and know-it-alls should keep their snouts out of what is going on, remember, because someone looks normal you never know what problems they do have.
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I have to agree with both sides on this topic. I cant recall being smacked much as a child. I have 2 boys myself 1 who is 18 and 1 of 16.
The elder was an ideal child well behaved and mainly did as he was told. If he did something dangerous he was told. Maybe had a smack on the back of the hand but nothing to serious. The younger one was a nightmare. He was always up to something, never sat still and opposed a lot of what we or his teachers asked of him. He was diagnosed as having ADHD at about 9. Now I have heard it all from people about its down to bad parenting, not setting boundaries etc etc. and "kids didn't have that when we were younger". However the facts were that if you asked him to do something he would when he wanted to and no amount of pressure, coercing etc would change that. He would run out of school if he had a run in with a teacher etc. If you took his stuff off him he was an absolute nightmare. Did we give in and give it back? no.
He would get so wound up and get into temper tantrums that he would punch and kick walls and doors, at that point we as parents had to get hold of him and restrain him. We then became the thing that was kicked or punched. This would ultimately turn into a 'good' smack which would then leave him in a shocked state to cry in his room and come to terms with what has being going through his head. Later he would calm down and he would often apologise for his behavior. On one occasion we had to call the police / ambulance to get them to intervene as he was so uncontrollable. Now he is growing out of it fortunately. Would I swap them? No not a chance. But I don't believe that a person can say 'never' smack a child. It's not ideal and I wouldn't agree its a good way to teach right from wrong but sometimes needs must.
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When I was at school the school had a system, three bad conduct marks in the week and the perpetrator got the cane. So the next week the slate was wiped clean. I always did my best not to get bad conduct marks as did my friends. I never was caned. I can say my school ran perfectly, no one ever gave cheek to a teacher or spoke back to them, no one disrupted classes and no one was excluded.
I also remember if kids where playing outside in the streets after school and anyone was seen by a Bobbie being bad they where so scared and a telling off was enough.
So, why are things so different today? I worked in a school when my kids where young and there was bad behaviour and disruption and the teachers could do very. I remember on one occasion my daughter telling me her teacher kept poking her in the back and it was sore. I went to see the teacher, who immediately panicked and told me she would get on the phone to the Region so it could be reported and investigated. I told her, I did not want that, she was really surprised. I just said to her, perhaps she had not noticed herself doing it and did not realise it worried my daughter. It was soon forgotten. However it just shows what pressure teachers are now under.
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I have read the "absolutely NOT" carefully to try and understand but failed. I have not seen any "absolutely MUST" thankfully as I could never understand that.
I do agree that families already on the radar of social services are possibly in need of guidance and support in how to parent but that guidance and support is just not needed by everyone.
I actually feel a little patronised by some of the posts offering suggestions for better parenting. I also feel some of the language used quite excessive in suggesting a parent that smacks their child is committing violence against children or suggesting it could then be appropriate for the elderly.
(I often feel the same when bullying, harassment or abuse are words used to describe what was once seen as teasing or name-calling. )
There are many, many children whose behaviour can be extremely bad at times (and that's another debatable point, what is bad behaviour?) but not all have serious social issues or a medical condition. Some are just being naughty.
I too would flip my lid if anyone else laid a finger on my kids/grandkids. That is completely different and I have never agreed with the cane etc in schools.
Absolutely agree about consistent boundaries - the lack of which creates many of the behavioural challenges we have to cope with. I always tried to be consistent and sometimes eventually gave in for the sake of my own sanity.
Oddly, I find I am now totally consistent with my grandchildren - even over a couple of days of them staying with us. In fact, I amaze myself how patient, calm and reasonable I can be …… all the way up to handing them back to their Mum and Dad!
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Things are so different today because there is no respect for teachers, police or shop keepers etc.
The police have no powers these days. We had groups of lads causing trouble on a field outside our house which we eventually got the police to attend. We told the police all the goings on and they were very sympathetic then the group turned up, the police stayed in their car and basically had a banter with the lads. They told us they could not actually do anything. The lads basically took the mick out of them because they knew it.
When I was younger if a copper told me to move on I did just that, no lip or back chat. I would have been mortified to have them knock on the door and tell my parents.
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How about Absolutely RIGHT, Bluwise? I agree with your comments and ‘handing them back to their Mum and Dad’ is a fantastic alternative strategy!
It’s clear that there is, and always has been, a polarisation of the problems and the solutions. Those, or most, of us on this forum, may I suggest, who did occasionally resort to a smack (not hit) didn’t do it willy-nilly and at the first sign of dissention. It was probably a last resort. And another last resort is removing benefits. Which also works when appropriate. But where some parents avoid using a ‘smack’ and resort to sending little Johnny off to bed without any supper, for example, this may be a disproportionate approach! The conflict of one solution being nobler than the other will always prevail. There is no Holy Grail answer.
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Bluwise I think it is somewhat disingenuous on the one hand to say that you are genuinely interested in how to discipline a child without smacking and then say you feel patronised by the responses.
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The "Naughty step" makes me cringe. Pinched from the actions of "Super Nanny", it's a piece of absolute nonsence. Never heard anything soooooo ridiculous! :(
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Those who advocate the "I only occasionally smacked" approach obviously have never been the little child waiting for the one little smack that becomes twenty punches, perhaps they would review their punishment methods if they had, no, I have never smacked our daughter and she knows why.
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I don't think I've been disingenuous.
I really am interested and like to question and challenge in order to learn. Unfortunately I do react if I feel someone is telling me only their way is right and what I and many others are doing is so very, very wrong despite the results mentioned here being balanced, loving, caring well-behaved children.
I think it's simply that some of the words and expressions that have been used made me feel that those who smack their children are being perceived as violent and inferior and should learn the correct way to bring up children.
I feel sickened that there are those who do behave in an unbelievably violent way and can see how vital it is to stop this but that is so far removed from what we are talking about here and I do not want to be associated even remotely, with that sort of horrific cruelty.
Peter16 - Tell me how many parents have administered a smack and then tell me how many have then gone on to become child beating monsters? You cannot assume that outcome.
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Before I had children I like others who had never had children decided I would never smack, I read lots of books and expounded all my thoughts to my friends and family about how to bring up children. Everyone listened with interest.
Of course, once I had children of my own, I changed my mind. I never beat my children, but I did give them a smack very occasionally.
I now realise I should not have said so much or lectured anyone before I had the experience of having my own children. When I was then qualified to speak. ;)
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The "Naughty step" makes me cringe. Pinched from the actions of "Super Nanny", it's a piece of absolute nonsence. Never heard anything soooooo ridiculous! :(
toky it as worked with my grand-kids.
they do not get smacked ,and they learn right from wrong and always say sorry afterwards
when i mention the naughty step, if they are being naughty they stop .
they now say to their granddad if you are naughty ,we will put you on the naughty step :)
in their school it is called time out
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oops
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i have three children so i am "qualified" but before i had them i knew i didnt want to smack them and now that they are grown up im glad i didnt break from that, but i really didnt have to have children to have an opinion. and im really surprised how many people do smack their children. i just wonder if te smacking dosent work then what do you do?
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Bluwise 1 would be too many, I seem to recall the case of a namesake of mine "baby P" that was said to have started out as just that a"harmless" smack....
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There is a difference between smacking and beating. I think from the mail on this forum from parents the majority opinion is they have smacked and their children have grown up with no problems. ;)
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I believe that it is extremely arrogant of anyone who has never had the privilege of having children, ( along with the "traumas" as well), to pontificate as to the rights or wrongs of ANY type of chastisement toward children, whether physical or otherwise.
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I wonder how many people have not replied maybe not to be judged.
I think in an ideal world we would all agree that smacking is not ideal, however the title of the topic is "what are the results of being smacked", So far it would appear that a lot of us were smacked and feel well balanced, a lot have also smacked our kids probably on a lesser scale to what we had and feel that we have not lost control.
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In answer to the original question... I don't know, and hopefully generations of my family won't know either
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So, since the courts and judicial have stopped smacking and sat the criminals on the naughty step the world is now a much better place. Phew I there I was thinking that the world had gone soft.
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I agree with every view on here from different perspectives, I suffered only from the indignity of a slap from my mum as a kid, as did my girls from me, yet I cannot abide the idea of my grandchildren being punished that way, but my daughters make their own minds up what constitutes punishment. What I found much worse than that was being made to feel ashamed that I had let my parents down in some way, following a verbal dressing down, which had a much longer lasting effect than a slap.
It was certainly the case that if I went home and told my mum and dad that another kid had punched me, the reply would be to punch them back harder then, likewise a kid who bit someone would usually see the error of their ways after a bite from their mum.
The world is a very dfferent place today from my childhood and parents must be the only ones to make the decisions about punishment fitting the "crime". Children who are systematically beaten as in the quoted case of Baby P among many others, are very often only "guilty" of the fact that they exist at all. Just my opinion!
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