Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum

General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Colwyn on March 11, 2014, 13:49:46 PM

Title: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Colwyn on March 11, 2014, 13:49:46 PM
A great TU leader. He quadrupled the membership of his union and always did the very best he could for the people he represented. Only 52 years old. RIP.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: usedbustickets on March 11, 2014, 15:16:46 PM
Well that comes as a shock, and a loss for his family at only 52.  I am not sure I would describe him as a great trade union leader, but as Colwyn has said he put his membership first and worked hard to both advance and defend the interests of that membership in the collective bargaining arena.

Where I differed from him, and other leaders in the RMT, was on the RMT affiliation to the Labour Party, or rather dis-affiliation from Labour.  Stand your corner and make the fight inside the party, not to leave and snear at the people and policy they left.  I'm afraid that Bob was one of those trade unionists of the hard left, particularly from London, who took a simplistic syndicalist position based on industrial muscle being the only way to advance the cause of the working man, and that the Labour Party was a distraction.  Which is a crying shame given that the NUR (from which the RMT was in part constructed) was part of the original group of trade unions that gave life to the Labour Party through the Labour Representation Committee (LRC).
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: GordonA on March 11, 2014, 15:25:07 PM
I must totally agree with Colwyn on this. Bob Crowe made more of an impact on the Trades Union Movement in the U.K. in his, unfortunately short life, than any other in a similar position.
As a great-grandson/grandson/ son of coal-miners, & an N.C.B. surveyor myself, I have an inbred affinity with all things connected to Trades Unions, where would the working man/woman be without them ??
God Bless Bob Crowe, R.I.P.                   
                                             
                                                                                                     
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: usedbustickets on March 11, 2014, 16:24:07 PM
Not perhaps the best of time to be setting the record straight on Bob Crow, but to set it in some sort of historical context, listed below are some of the trades unionists that I believe earned the description of being 'great'.  I am afraid Bob Crow does not make the list, nor even the second list of great (British) trades unionists.  So in no particular order:-

Bill Morris, Ben Tillett, Jack Jones, Jack Dash, Jimmy Airlee, David Basnett, Hugh Scanlon, Rodney Bickerstaff, Tom Mann, Clive Jenkins, Gavin Laird and the giant amongst them all Ernest Bevin.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Colwyn on March 11, 2014, 16:45:28 PM
Yes a list of great men (and only men) but all from a very different time in a very different land. Bob Crow should be judged against the struggle of his own generation and, in my view, he stands at the top in that context. If we want to debate this more then perhaps a Debating thread would be a better place than a RIP thread.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: BernieTeyze on March 11, 2014, 16:51:58 PM
God Bless, what a devastating loss for his wife and kids.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: usedbustickets on March 11, 2014, 17:05:15 PM
Colwyn - your possibly right on the alternative place for debate, although I do not recall us according that to Thatcher??
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Jacqui Harvey on March 11, 2014, 17:12:03 PM
I enjoyed his performance on HIGNFY   He seemed to have a good personality.  I read he had a suspected heart attack.  Also read he was separated from his wife, had one child and was now living with a partner.  The big surprise for me was he earned £95,000 per year.  Not bad for a Union man, even more that M.P.'s earn.  However, I am sure he worked hard for his money.  R.I.P.
I have agree once again with Mr Tickets. Mrs Thatcher's thread on here when she died was not dignified at all and a lot of debate took place, so you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another.   :)
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: desmartinson on March 11, 2014, 17:14:00 PM
Baroness Thatcher please Pete, lets show some respect to the great Lady, for defeating the Union Grip on Employers.  ;)  :)
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: KKOB on March 11, 2014, 18:04:03 PM
Also read he was separated from his wife, had one child and was now living with a partner.  The big surprise for me was he earned £95,000 per year. 

He earned a package worth £145,000, far more than any of his members, and yet lived in a council house. ............

Crow is survived by his partner, Nicola Hoarau, a son and three daughters.

Obituary - Bob Crow - The Guardian


Not only did he earn a substantial amount more than an MP, he earnt about the same as the PM.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Colwyn on March 11, 2014, 18:20:02 PM
he earnt about the same as the PM.
The difference being that he earned it whereas Cameron ...
Of this much vaunted "pay package" a large proportion was pension contributions. Unfortunately a pension which he will be not be able to enjoy in the retirement he would be have been much more entitled to than most.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: GordonA on March 11, 2014, 20:49:40 PM
At least Bob Crowe's family can hold their heads up and take solace from the fact that he, compared to Thatcher, Cameron et al, achieved what they, collectively, never , ever did ..........got dirt under his finger-nails, by way of honest, physical labour.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Jacqui Harvey on March 11, 2014, 21:46:45 PM
I also read that he came under quite lot of criticism  for living in the same council flat he had always live in despite him earning such high wages. 
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: dycedon on March 12, 2014, 06:37:09 AM
I met him at a branch meeting in Aberdeen, the guy had some kiind of aura about him,and boy could he speak, then again that was what he was paid for, he will be solely missed by his members and the trade union movement as a whole. RIP
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: sting on March 15, 2014, 15:58:30 PM
Well done Bob for improving the working conditions of us poor LT workers .R.I.P
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: c1 on March 17, 2014, 13:50:59 PM
I wasn't going to post as I was taught not to speak ill of the dead, but as KKOB pointed out lived in a council house with a level of income that would have enabled him to buy is own and free up the property for a needy family, interesting to note that Ken Livingstone lived in a council flat for years when he was leader of Brent, not that I have anything against council tenant as I lived in a council house for 12 years, but these lefty's who earn enough to go into the private sector should do so freeing up these much needed properties. also of note a certain A Scargill tried to buy his council house at the time of Maggie, and another J Saville obe had a council flat in Leeds.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: saoirse on March 17, 2014, 14:22:28 PM
C1 I haven't read such rubbish in years!!!
If he lived in a big house you would be complaining, now you're complaining cos he didn't!!! As for Jimmy Saville- wtf has that got to do with Bob Crow. Get a life
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: c1 on March 17, 2014, 16:51:21 PM
A mind reader then, I would not complain about bob crow living in a big house as he could afford it just to help you out. Are you disagreeing with the facts. Or don't they matter! To you. I don't disagree with his efforts or his success in representing his members, although the travelling public might think differently.
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Jacqui Harvey on March 17, 2014, 17:05:02 PM
I have to agree with C!.  Council Houses are for people who cannot afford to buy their own property and there are so many people on waiting lists who are living in very poor conditions.  So, if you can afford a property why not do the right thing and buy your own property?  I, would not have complained if Bob Crowe had a bought his own house and who said it had to be a mansion?   
Title: Re: Bob Crow Dies
Post by: Colwyn on March 17, 2014, 17:25:45 PM
I don't have a problem with people continuing to live in the house where they grew up or have lived for a long time. I did disagree with people in council houses who could afford to buy a house being sold their own council house on the cheap and taking thus taking that property permanently out of social provision. This might have been OK if the money gained from selling council houses was invested in building new ones - but under Thatcherism this was never going to be allowed. Of course the people who bought their council houses at a fraction of market value were absolutely delighted - quite understandably - but the social housing stock of this country was significantly eroded and no replacement council house building made up for it. Which produces today's situation where few 20 year olds have any realistic prospects of buying a house before they are in their 30s (if at all) and the Government's economic policies and the Bank of England's monetary policies are severely skewed by the importance of house prices and mortgage rates to the economy.