Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: JohnF on May 31, 2014, 18:21:40 PM
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Had to go to the bank yesterday and popped in to the Finansbank in Taksim next to Gezi Park. Came out, bought a bottle of water and spent a very chilled 30mins or so lying back in the sun in Gezi. Guess what hundred of others were doing? Yup, the exact same. Mothers with kids, students, workers from businesses in the area, tourists, all doing the same. It could have been a city park anywhere, Hyde Park, Kelvingrove Park, Jardin des Tuileries, Englischer Garten.
(http://s16.postimg.org/7hsgviznl/gezi_parki_620x400_415x260.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7hsgviznl/)
Today however, its empty. Not because no-one wants to go there, but because there are thousands of Polis and hundreds of panzers blocking the way. Anyone attempting to gain access is being subjected to a level of brutality rarely seen in Western(ish) countries... well, rarely seen since the other weekend I suppose. Even the American CNN reporter broadcasting live outside the Marmara Hotel got a bit of a kicking from the Polis - wonder what Wonder Boy in the White House thinks of Turkey now?
(http://s14.postimg.org/p9vai72bx/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/p9vai72bx/)
The irony of it all is that the government who ordered this are the only credible contenders in the upcoming elections and are most likely to increase their hold within government.
Its all a bit phucked up...
JF
(the above images are merely to illustrate the point, I couldn't be arsed taking pics and was on the early EDI home this morning)
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I've been following it all evening on Twitter. just all so sad.
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Wonderful :o what a few bags of coal and some cheap watches coupled with references to religion can do when it comes to elections :( . Lets hope UKIP don't cotton on to this vote winner :o .
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I had the BBC world news on a while back it was blooming shocking to watch well as shocking as watching the treatment meted out this time a year ago...
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A few shocking images from last night. Anyone who has twitter should see what's going on
#gezi. # Gezi anniversary.
Very little ever reaches the news.
There's problems most weekends in the major cities across Turkey, but being the anniversary of course it was dreadful.
My heart goes out to all the injured who were bravely standing up for what they believe in.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/01/enunuqur.jpg)
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My heart goes out to all the injured who were bravely standing up for what they believe in.
Yes, and many of those injured and beaten were not protesting - they were folks simply trying to go about their daily life. These incidents happened not just in the areas adjacent to Taksim, but all over the central European side of Istanbul.
You may argue that folks should stay indoors so as not to get involved, but when the Polis randomly fire tear gas into open apartment windows and lobbys, sometimes they have no option but to go outside. Sometimes they have to go on the streets for more basic reasons, such as needing a loaf of bread - and we all know how that ended up on one occasion last year...
I was staying in Nevizade (just off Istiklal and 400m or so from Taksim and the office) last week and had intended to head down to Fethiye on Friday afternoon - for several reasons that didn't happen. There was no way I'd have been cowering indoors yesterday so a far more sensible option was simply to head home - a solution welcomed by SWMBO as she is fully aware of my propensity for getting into "bother" in these situations. While I'd never admit it to her, she was right - I'm far too old to leg from the Polis anymore, I'd forgotten to pack my gas mask & hard hat and when it comes to being beaten by random plain clothes Polis just for "being there" I'm way too much of a coward!
All in all its another sad day, not so much for Turkey itself but for its people. These actions by the government (lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told) which happen on such a regular basis that they're not even "newsworthy" anymore, will continue to polarise society and create divisions that will take a long time to repair - irrespective of which party governs in coming years.
JF
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Words fail me. Just awful.
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"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
I seem to remember some famous war crimes trials held in Nuremberg some years back when a bunch of Nazi's tried to use that as a defence. The Polis who carry out these atrocious acts have a choice not to do it. They are just criminal thugs!
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"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
Yes and some of them seem to enjoy it too. Not an exclusive phenomenon to Turkey, remember Orgreave, Wapping and of course the SPG in the 70s.
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"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
I seem to remember some famous war crimes trials held in Nuremberg some years back when a bunch of Nazi's tried to use that as a defence. The Polis who carry out these atrocious acts have a choice not to do it. They are just criminal thugs!
"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
Yes and some of them seem to enjoy it too. Not an exclusive phenomenon to Turkey, remember Orgreave, Wapping and of course the SPG in the 70s.
It wasn't a defence, it was a statement of fact. Under the current regime, the Polis do as they are told - as do many prosecutors and members of the judiciary. Fortunately, there are still some members of the judiciary who have the stones to stand up to the government, its just a pity there are no senior Polis officers left who would/could do the same.
JF
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And can you blame them in the circumstances ?
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"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
I seem to remember some famous war crimes trials held in Nuremberg some years back when a bunch of Nazi's tried to use that as a defence. The Polis who carry out these atrocious acts have a choice not to do it. They are just criminal thugs!
"lets face it, the Polis only do as they are told"
Yes and some of them seem to enjoy it too. Not an exclusive phenomenon to Turkey, remember Orgreave, Wapping and of course the SPG in the 70s.
It wasn't a defence, it was a statement of fact. Under the current regime, the Polis do as they are told - as do many prosecutors and members of the judiciary. Fortunately, there are still some members of the judiciary who have the stones to stand up to the government, its just a pity there are no senior Polis officers left who would/could do the same.
JF
The point I tried to get across John (unsuccessfully it would seem) was that what we have seen taking place across Turkey over the last year was not simply the actions of a disciplined police force following orders -no matter how unlawful- but also the undisiciplined, but determined efforts, of a significant number of Polis and other security thugs relishing the opportunity to violently and indiscriminately attack citizens that they should be protecting.
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I see reply with quote is as popular as ever :(
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The point I tried to get across John (unsuccessfully it would seem) was that what we have seen taking place across Turkey over the last year was not simply the actions of a disciplined police force following orders -no matter how unlawful- but also the undisiciplined, but determined efforts, of a significant number of Polis and other security thugs relishing the opportunity to violently and indiscriminately attack citizens that they should be protecting.
With hindsight I probably shouldn't have quoted your reply.
You don't have to make the point, at least not to me, that elements of the Polis (and AK Party activists acting with the full authority of Polis Chief Hüseyin Çapkın last year and subsequently under Selami Altınok ) take a great delight in assaulting their fellow citizens whenever the opportunity arises. Be it with CS gas, baton rounds, water cannon or the more basic "big stick" or baton, it matters not when the blood lust comes to the fore, these guys just love it. You dont need a Gezi type scenario to see it exhibited, I've seen first hand on more than one occasion just how brutal some Polis can be.
Incidentally, there was a wonderful quote recently - when asked about the weekend, Istanbul Polis Chief Selami Altınok stated "it had been a nice day without trouble". Where the phuck was he, on a day out in Buyukada maybe?
It also must be pointed out that within the Polis these guys are a minority. Much of the violent behaviour exhibited by the Polis is down to a lack of training - they find themselves being put in a situation they've been neither trained nor prepared for. Often, I suspect, their actions/reactions are more down to fear and inexperience than anything else.
JF
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The polis in uniform are one thing - it's the plain clothes ones - are they under cover polis or paramilitaries I wonder.