Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Turkey Related Subjects => Turkey Discussion Forum (Not Calis specifically) => Topic started by: nichola on August 02, 2014, 12:34:18 PM
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Six years ago when we opened Mozaik there were no boys with weighing scales doing the rounds of restaurants to see if diners wanted to have their weight guessed for a fee, or if they were around they just hadn't discovered us yet!
Then the following year there was one boy, and he was very sweet and polite and we used to make sure he had a drink of water, Ayran or whatever he wanted when he came by. We sat him down on several occasions and tried to find out about his situation but he was very evasive. I saw him one time in the park where the public square is now and he was sitting with an older gentleman but as soon as he saw me see him he distanced himself immediately from this man.
Last year, the whole business got out of hand with about ten boys passing through the restaurant one after the other so at any one sitting people could be asked several times if they want to be weighed.
We even had one person make a special trip over from Çaliş to complain and this wasn't the only complaint. We tried rationalising with them saying just one of them could come to the restaurant but this was largely ignored and it didn't help when they got into a fight with each other in the restaurant.
My belief is that these boys are "worked" or pimped not to put too fine a point on it! They are not local to Fethiye, they as I understand it come from Kars in north east Turkey.
I do not believe they are earning money for school books or their uniform, especially as many of them are actually "working" here during term time. I also am inclined to believe that they are possibly mistreated if they do not earn enough money and I dread to imagine what their living conditions here are like.
The final straw some weeks ago was when one of them told a customer to phuck off.
We had very strong words with the culprit and we didn't see any of them for a few weeks. But now they are back and once again on Thursday the same boy told another customer to phuck off when they declined to be weighed.
So my question is what should we do?
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Surely it's a matter for you and the Zabita ?
The restaurant is your business and you have the right to deny access to it. If you can't stop the boys from harassing your customers you have to report it to the local authority.
What do other businesses in the area think about it ?
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The lad in Calis and his brother are great. Never been hassled by these lads and always have a chat. However, the ones in Fethiye are different. They all have the same lines and are quite persistent. Same story about schooling and me being a handsome man ( maybe they are working to get some glasses). We were in a shop the other day and one of the lads was behind us buying scales. He said the Zabita had taken his other ones the previous day. Strange how he still had enough money to buy some more. I am more and more convinced about them working for somebody., which is really sad.
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If they are abusing your customers I'd definitely put an end to their visits - you don't expect to make money from such people but there's a good chance their change of attitude might well start to cost you business.
On the subject of pimping I am absolutely certain you are correct. There used to be a terribly crippled/disabled guy who would make his way (slowly and painfully) along the prom in Calis with a tray of pens etc round his neck. It was awful to see how badly disabled this poor guy was - and he used to get a right wedge - 20s, 10s for a crappy old pen, such was the sympathy.
Then one night we walked round a corner and found him sitting on a step giving his earnings to a right dodgy looking git - who counted it and gave him around 10% of the wedge back.
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they could be gypsy lads sent out by their families
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I agree with Alan...it's sad you have to resort to calling the Zabita however if customers do get hassled and abused they will inevitably stop coming to your restaurant...and spread the word:( One boy came to us last time we were in Mozaik but he wasn't pushy in any way, he just walked off when we said "No thanks". They most likely are "pimped"...difficult situation Nichola...I know how much you hate to see that kind of thing.
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I'm sure that I heard that the 2 good looking boys that have been around calis s for a few years are related to Hagi the shoe shine guy.
We saw them a couple of years ago at 1am and offered them a lift home as was so worried about them out at that time.
They refused and said their uncle was on his way.
Might be worth asking Hagi if he knows them or what life is like for these young lads. He knows most people and speaks good English.
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Got to agree about the brothers in Calis, one year we saw one of them hiding money in a secret stash, and yes they were working for family as we seen them getting picked up and handing money across, hence the secret stash. The brothers are great kids, always a word, nevcer pass you by without speaking.
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We were told that the boys in Calis (one is called Mustafa ) are Curds and work for their Uncle. A restaurant owner told us this. I remarked to him one night that is midnight and the one boy had been out for hours. The restaurant owner said to us, if the boys do not bring back enough money, the Uncle would beat them.
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Is that Curds, as in Curds 'n Weigh your Maj ?
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Im pretty certain the Calis boys are not Kurdish and definately don't look under any threat of being beaten, they never pressure anyone and always smiling and joking with us.
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We spoke to Mustafa and Hassan a number of times when we were in calis in the last few weeks, came across as nice boys not only did they get money off us for guessing our weight but also beat us at a few games of pool as well.
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Little blighter guessed mine to within 1 kilogram.
Feel free to see if you can match him :)
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They always get it right, it would be good if they would just lie to us women. Don't normally get weighed just give them a few bob.
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Tinks, It was Savas, at Georges that told me they were Kurds. I had no reason to doubt him, however, I will mention this to him next time we are over.
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According to the local news, a couple of days ago 14 "beggars" were arrested by the police. 8 of them were children. I have no idea what happened to them.
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Nichola thanks for drawing out this important issue, it needs to be stopped.
You've got to be cruel to be kind and get this child labour exploitation stopped. By firstly politely declining the service, advising the restaurant or bar owner that they are allowing the exploitation of children by allowing these children onto their premises, and they should stop it. Telling other people about this, and encourage them to stop giving them money. If necessary then advise the Polis/Zabatta or whoever and ask them to try to stop it. When the money stops, so will this particular exploitation of vulnerable children.
And for those of you too tempted to give the money across because it is all so sad, then salve your conscious by making a donation to the many charities that operate in the UK and across the world to eradicate the exploitation of child slavery.
BTW Nicohla that's the second time this week I have praised your contribution, you must owe me a beer by now ;) ;) ;D ;D
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I have always found Mustafa and Hassan to be very well mannered never rude whether you get weighed or not, they always speak to me when they pass and I have never known them to be rude, I have also heard they are related to Hagi in Fethiye, some one once told me that Echo used to keep their money safe for them when they had accrued so much in a day as they had been robbed before by older Gypsy boys. personally I don't mind them they are so polite unlike another a few years back who was even frightening to look at, he was like Chucky but dark skinned and sort of golden brown tight curly hair and those wall eyes normally seen in some dogs. he would stand at the end of your table and stare at you then just simply demand " LIRE " and offering nothing in return he was the scariest looking kid Ive ever laid eyes on.
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And for those of you too tempted to give the money across because it is all so sad, then salve your conscious by making a donation to the many charities that operate in the UK and across the world to eradicate the exploitation of child slavery.
Or indeed local charities such as Embrace and 3Cs who may not be working to eradicate child slavery but are making a real difference to the lives of countless children growing up in the Fethiye area.
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I was always eager to give to beggars and used the premise of 'salve my conscience by giving to one today and I've done my bit for today'. However, I then learned from a senior policeman in Kashmir, how much organised business was at the root of begging. He is a member of a committee that has a global overview of this problem, and the world over, children and the disabled are seen as valuable revenue earners.
My sons were here a few weeks ago with 5 of their friends for a football holiday during the World Cup and nearly got themselves into a spot of bother in Olu Deniz when they witnessed one of the weighing scale boys being physically abused. They went to the boy's rescue, nearly ending up in a fight with the abusers until the bar staff also came to the boy's aid. My sons said the boy was genuinely scared and they wanted to call the Police but the boy seemed even more terrified at that prospect. The bar staff told my sons the boys 'worked for someone in Fethiye'.
Bit of a mixed response here but fairly interesting, specially the bit about the ladies in the market place.: http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g312737-i9292-k6646716-o30-Police_and_the_weighing_boys-Oludeniz_Mugla_Province_Turkish_Aegean_Coast.html
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And going back to your dilemma, Nichola. My opinion is that you should protect your business. I have seen the boys make their way to your restaurant when I have eaten there at lunch time and be offered drinks and I smiled, knowing this was indicative of yours and Dogan's altruistic nature.
However, to protect your own revenue and to stop feeding the pimps, I believe you should discourage the boys from bothering your customers. Maybe tell them that if they want a drink they have to promise not to ask your customers. It is indeed a difficult situation.
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Crazy question I'm sure... But is there an equivalent of social services who could investigate in case they are being abused?
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Six years ago when we opened Mozaik there were no boys with weighing scales doing the rounds of restaurants to see if diners wanted to have their weight guessed for a fee, or if they were around they just hadn't discovered us yet!
Its the latter, there's been kids with scales for as long as I can remember in Fethiye. There also used to be a few little girls who sold socks and hankerchiefs although I havent seen them for a few years now.
I do not believe they are earning money for school books or their uniform, especially as many of them are actually "working" here during term time. I also am inclined to believe that they are possibly mistreated if they do not earn enough money and I dread to imagine what their living conditions here are like.
You're right, they are *not* earning money for school books etc, they are basically begging with the prop of a set of scales. As far as I'm aware begging is illegal in Turkey therefore to get money you have to provide a service or goods, hence the tissue and pen sellers etc (in Istanbul, not so much down south). As with using child beggars in most countries, it is organised and the children are often beaten and starved of food if they do not make enough money.
So my question is what should we do?
No easy answer there. My opinion is that you should be completely selfish (maybe not the right word...) and protect your business first. If you are getting complaints from customers then its time to do as many other restaurants do, tell them to phuk off whenever they approach your customers.
It can be heartbreaking to see a child in this position, but you've spent years building up a successful business with a stellar reputation - head over heart situation I think. The ones I suspect you're referring to can be a bunch of little sh1ts when someone refuses them money, unlike the kids I remember in Fethiye from a few years ago.
Street kids are a Turkey wide problem. Some figures from a few years ago estimated there were over 30,000 living and begging in Istanbul alone. Locally in Fethiye... who knows what the figure is, probably more than we'd think at first thought given the areas affluence compared to other regions of Turkey.
But is there an equivalent of social services who could investigate in case they are being abused?
Not as you know it, it'd be the Polis who would investigate I think (not 100% sure though).
JF
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Personally my biggest concern is for the children. Children as young as 6 or 7 in Fethiye, walking the streets all day and night when they should be playing and sleeping; not working.
If the “uncles” were to walk the streets with scales how many people would give them money. Not many I bet! They don’t look cute or sweet and most people won’t give money to someone for nothing. Giving money to the children is actually worse because it encourages and enables the “uncles” to continue to exploit them.
The children are used as a front to an illegal activity and support a black market economy and that is an abuse in itself. What about the children’s right to a childhood?
It is illegal for children to work here in Turkey; begging is also illegal too at any age but I suspect finding any social service type authorities to deal with it is nigh on impossible. If the children were orphaned then yes, but it is more likely their parents and other family members are supporting this activity, and also because they are not local, coming from out of town whether it is from Kars or Istanbul then it’s the Police or Zabita that would be involved.
Menthol’s story of the child in Ölüdeniz is telling, “the boy was genuinely scared and they wanted to call the Police but the boy seemed even more terrified at that prospect”.
As for what we should do, thank you to those that have responded to that.
We may well have to live with their visits and just work to keep them to a minimum and ensure they are at least polite. Doğan has again spoken to one of the older boys, no more than 10 years old, explaining that when guests come to their home would they tell them to FO and the people visiting here are guests in this country and should be accorded the same courtesy as guests in their home. If this doesn't work then we may involve the Zabita or Police.
It’s not clear to us that they understand what we are saying whether it’s to ask them to limit their visits or to be polite, or to be honest it’s more likely they are more scared of the people that pimp them than they are of us and we don’t actually want to be challengers for that position! At the end of the day it is not their fault; they are victims first and last.
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I totally agree Nichola but a difficult balance to acheive. I have over the years noticed an increase in this type of "begging" and it can be somewhat off putting when you are having a nice intimate meal. Being approached once most people can deal with but numerous times is a pain.
I wish you luck moving forward but not easy.
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All over the world people are being told not to give these kids money on the streets as it just encourages them and is keeping them out of school etc. so is not helping them one little bit. I think the answer nowadays is to give them absolutely nothing.
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All over the world people are being told not to give these kids money on the streets as it just encourages them and is keeping them out of school etc. so is not helping them one little bit. I think the answer nowadays is to give them absolutely nothing.
That is all well and good and I do agree with you, but that will not help Nicola and Dogan at all.
They are already being rude to their customers when refused so in this instance I fear it will only make matters worse. Something needs doing but what is anyone's guess
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I must say, I feel for your situation Nicola. We haven't experienced any rudeness from the lads who operate in Calis, we say "no thanks" in Turkish and they go off to someone else. In your case perhaps every time they come round in force you could get your husband to get his phone out and pretend he is calling the Police, maybe they will get the message that they are not welcome.
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I was asked by one of the boys when I was eating in the Mosaic if I wanted to get weighed , I told him No. An hour or so later after I'd eaten he was round again, my answer then was " If I didn't get weighed before I'd eaten I sure as hell don't want to get weighed afterwards!" Not sure he understood, but anyway, he made his self scarce. A couple of hours later I was in the Kismet bar having a nightcap and he was heading towards me again, he recognised me and his face was a picture! He held his hands up before I had chance to chastise him again and said "okay lady, okay" Since then I have warmed to him, and although I don't allow him to guess my weight I don't mind giving him a couple of lira, bless him.