Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Scunner on September 12, 2014, 15:20:35 PM
-
Running at 50:50 in Scotland at the mo - but what if English, Welsh and Northern Irish had a vote too? Not scientific of course, as other nationalities will vote in the CBF poll too :)
-
You actually raise a good point Scunner. Scotland leaving the UK affects the English, Welsh and N Irish. If we go independent then I can only imagine it will weaken the rest of the UK. Maybe everyone should have had a vote!
-
I agree and I think it's a short sighted and selfish attitude by the "yes" campaign. We've (all of us) have just come through the worst recession since the first world war, millions have lost jobs, the UK is just getting back on it's feet and could soon become an economy to out perform Germany. But sod all of that, let's plough on and potentially wreck that recovery and hey, what is there to loose? If the Scottish Nation votes "No" the weak west minsters will give more powers and cash to Scotland, the average support where Scots get £200 per head more than the rest will grow larger. If they vote "Yes" then you get Alex running the country but can always say that the politicians south of the border held back the potential of an individual nation which financially contributes less than a third of the city of London.
Thinking about it, I'm coming more supportive of the "Yes" campaign.
But to answer your question, I would always vote to retain the United Kingdom and I suspect would many more ?
-
People on the Yes side suggest The UK is scared to death of a future without Scotland. I don't worry about that at all. In the event of a yes vote I worry only for Scotland.
-
I've never known anything like it in my life. It has divided families, caused rows amongst neighbours, No campaigners being called "Traitors", "scumbags", "Braindead" among other things. A lot of it IMHO is football mentality. ie anti English brigade. They don't have the foresight to see beyond a win against the English. I am gutted at how this is panning out, the aggression thats around,ect is awful. I am Scottish through and through, and very very proud of it but as such, I am part of a United Kingdom and hope with all my heart, it stays like that.
-
Totally agree Toky. The bitterness from the Yes campaign is terrible, they seem to think if you Vote Yes you don't love Scotland.
The No people just want to get away from England and Westminster, purely because of the fact they think the English are the enemy. They say Scotland will be a fairer and better place with Independence, but ask of them to name one way it will be fairer and they will refer you to some SNP leaflet. None of them know.
I love Scotland. I love living here my children and my grandchild are Scottish, but I still know Scotland will be stronger and better as part of the U.K. We are a small island why divide and make us smaller?
-
Here, Here! I'm with you, ladies. I am proud to be Scottish and am proud to be part of the United Kingdom. I cant believe the bad feeling and resentment all this has caused. Not only are we unpopular with the rest of the UK but we have divisions with family/friends/workmates. I don't know how we will recover from this. I'll bet productivity in Scotland has fallen dramatically in the last few weeks as arguments rage on and on. The sooner it's over the better!! :-\
-
It's an odd situation here. Alex was in town when I went in to meet the Mrs from work, it's fairly obvious that the entourage came with Alex as part of the package - as did the slightly intimidating hefty bouncers in black suits positioned just out of TV shot. But I also you have to admit he's a likeable individual, and he knows how to play to the crowd.
I'm possibly outside the norm - an English voter with recent and relevant Scottish heritage, who loves Scotland with all my heart - and who voted SNP at the last two elections; but cannot vote for Scottish independence, ever.
-
I actually cant find one redeeming feature on Alex Salmond Keith. He is so far up his own ar$e. I've never liked him as I think its all about him and getting into the history books. He will be the ruination of this once proud nation. God helps us to recover from the damage this man has done already, and its not over yet. :(
-
I agree Tokes, but he can appear, as an individual human, quite likeable. I saw him doing it first hand today. It doesn't mean he is likeable, it means he knows what to do to portray that. And he does it very well.
-
Scotland
Has it's own language
Has it's own currency
Has it's own parliament
Has it's own laws and legal system
Has it's own borders
Makes it's own decisions on big issues like University costs and prescription charges
Quite frankly, I'm struggling to see how independence is going to make any positive difference.
-
I remember our first meeting with Salmond and I did like him. He seemed so kind and caring and assured us how much he wanted to help us and how he was going to act on our behalf. He did nothing more than send us a letter and that was the end of it. I soon realised that he is all talk and promises that come to nothing.
-
Well George, all you say is true. Its the numpties that can't see the wood for the trees, but believe me,the difference will be crippling IMHO. If poeple are lucky enough to have up to £80,000 in their banks, their money is protected if things go t1ts up. Accounts with higher savings in them, of which there are thousands and thousands, some have been emptied and deposited south of the border to protect their money just to lessen the risk. This all has a knock on effect, as banks willl be less able to offer loans and mortgages etc to future borrowers. I have this information from 2 sources, working in 2 different banks. On a local level, we have the Trident submarine base right on my doorstep. Now you'd need to be an eejit to actually like nuclear weapons, but I dont want to be a sitting target when Salmond et al, gets rid of the weapons if they get the vote. I like to know we are protected. PLUS, it is a huge emloyer, not just locally but all over the West of Scotland on a daily basis, and Nationally, daily and weekly for Consultants and Contractors from all over the UK. This allows my town of Helensburgh to flourish, affording us bigger supermarkets, nice B&Bs for Contractors and visiting naval families, severall taxi companies, all of whom are busy, a sceond to none direct train service to Glasgo & Edinburgh, twice an hour, as well as a daily overnight service to. London. I am told that we only have a full time Fire station and crew, becase of the naval base. If all the people that would be moved away from the area, would leave us with a population that would only merit a retained service.If Salmond get rid of our base, then naval families will be moved back south, severly affecting all our local services, many of whom will without doubt, have to close. There's a saying here "We're all Jock Tamson's bairns", and that for me means all of us as a United Kingdom and I do not want that to change. So there you have it. All the changes will have a negative affect. That's only the tip of the iceberg for me. Let me be clear also, unlike a lot of Yes voters, I actually DO respect others opinions.
-
I think the Emperor Hadrian had the right idea. ;) :) :)
-
At last some positive and open honest views on this subject without being bombarded with one way "Yes " voters self opinions and usually through social media websites and we all know which one that is .
Anyway my Family is Scottish and Proud of it but we are part of the United Kingdom and hopefully always will be , A definite "No" voting Family.
-
The CBF poll result (although not too scientific) does surprise me. I was expecting a huge Yes vote from English members wanting to cast Scotland adrift. As Scotland receives more from Westminster than it generates with oil tax revenues etc, it isn't based on economics, so it must be that the non-Scottish members of CBF love Scotland, and/or the UK as it is.
-
The CBF poll result (although not too scientific) does surprise me. I was expecting a huge Yes vote from English members wanting to cast Scotland adrift. As Scotland receives more from Westminster than it generates with oil tax revenues etc, it isn't based on economics, so it must be that the non-Scottish members of CBF love Scotland, and/or the UK as it is.
For me Keith it is a case of "better the devil you know" and "why fix something that's not broken"
-
I would urge everyone to watch this excellent summary from Scottish economist, Jim Swift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB7XMxCkorI
-
If I lived in Scotland I would vote "Yes". It wouldn't take the crass stupidity and outright lying of the "No" campaign to persuade me to do so. Not would it take the fountain of talk from Salmond although he strikes me as the most skilled political operator the UK has seen since Wilson. But I don't live there so I don't has a vote; instead, as a Welshman born and living in England, I wish the Scottish all the best in the future whether they are independent or still under the oppression of Westminster and Whitehall.
-
To get a better perspective, I'd be interested to hear some of the lies put out by the no campaign. Could you enlighten me and also list who said it and when.
-
all good points rimms and karaokemark. des. wait until I see u mate. hadrians wall was built to keep YOU out. lol
-
Don't be silly Jack, old Willy Wallace could,nt do that ,or was it Mel Gibson. lol., ps you owe me a pint, the champions could,nt beat the Arsenal. ;) :) :) :) :)
-
aye. but they should have. some very strange refs. decisions. imo!!!!
-
See what I mean???? Football mentality! :o
-
And from a fellow Jock too Toky. ;) :)
-
All i can say is well said Colwyn clever clever man indeed. We are not all numpties that cant see the wood from the trees. Really fed up of scotland being governed by a party that scotland have never voted in in the first place. Time to change all that.
-
I would urge everyone to watch this excellent summary from Scottish economist, Jim Swift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB7XMxCkorI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB7XMxCkorI)
And on what basis, other than his self declaration, do you adjudge him to be an economist?
JF
-
Re: Jim Swift. Any credibility he had is destroyed by his passion for a No vote. He is a Tory councillor from a very affluent area of Scotland where the level of deprivation and poverty is way below the average. His brand of referendum economics is nothing more than Better Together propaganda.
I've never known anything like it in my life. It has divided families, caused rows amongst neighbours, No campaigners being called "Traitors", "scumbags", "Braindead" among other things. A lot of it IMHO is football mentality. ie anti English brigade. They don't have the foresight to see beyond a win against the English. I am gutted at how this is panning out, the aggression thats around,ect is awful. I am Scottish through and through, and very very proud of it but as such, I am part of a United Kingdom and hope with all my heart, it stays like that.
I was at a Yes campaign meeting last week and can concur with everything you say. I was surprised at the bitterness shown by many towards both "the English" and anyone who was contemplating voting no. What also surprised me was the animosity towards "the authorities" in respect of housing, fuel prices and social deprivation in general. If I was an undecided voter, it'd been enough to make me vote No the next day.
JF
-
We live near the local SNP Councillor who married the personal assistant of Salmond when he was our M.P. There are "Yes" signs in a few field by the roadside which the owners have put up. Last week a couple of people put up "No" signs in front of their properties. They have all been smashed down! The Yes campaign are a real lot of bullies who throw eggs, shout down any opposition and smash down signs.
I don't feel that Scotland has been badly done to by any of the Westminster Governments. I know we in Scotland get £200.00 more each per week than our English counterparts. We get free prescriptions, free eye tests and also free University places. When I had a job in the local primary school, I remember the children who moved up for England always had to be put down a class or two as they were never as advanced as the Scottish kids.
The Yes Campaigners keep saying Scotland will be a best and fairer place, but if you ask any of them to name one fairer thing, none of them can. :o
-
For many, many years to come Scotland will be bitterly divided over this,whether Salmond gets his crown and his castle or not.
-
All i can say is well said Colwyn clever clever man indeed. We are not all numpties that cant see the wood from the trees. Really fed up of scotland being governed by a party that scotland have never voted in in the first place. Time to change all that.
I believe that we are waiting for Colwyn to answer Rimms' post.
-
Really fed up of scotland being governed by a party that scotland have never voted in in the first place. Time to change all that.
I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but an independent Scotland would be governed by the SNP, who got less than 20% of the Scottish vote in the last General Election - so 80.1% of people in Scotland would be governed by a party they didn't vote for..!
-
Really fed up of scotland being governed by a party that scotland have never voted in in the first place. Time to change all that.
I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but an independent Scotland would be governed by the SNP, who got less than 20% of the Scottish vote in the last General Election - so 80.1% of people in Scotland would be governed by a party they didn't vote for..!
Ain't democracy a bug*er?
-
It is, but the point I am making is Yes campaigners complain about being ruled by a Tory goverment they didn't vote for, but 4 in 5 didn't vote for Salmond either. They did in larger numbers for the Scottish Parliament, but when it came to choosing the 'real' government they bottled it ;)
A bit like voting Green/UKIP at local elections, but wouldn't dream of it in a General election perhaps :D
-
I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong but an independent Scotland would be governed by the SNP, who got less than 20% of the Scottish vote in the last General Election - so 80.1% of people in Scotland would be governed by a party they didn't vote for..!
Actually no... "Independence Day" is set for 24th March 2016 and this will be closely followed by Scottish elections on the 5th May 2016. I suspect the voting pattern will be very different to the past few Holyrood elections.
You sure about the 20%? I think it was closer to 44% the SNP had for the popular vote.
JF
-
Not not entirely sure but I think so. The point still stands at 44% though.
It would be interesting to see what the future holds for the SNP in a Scottish National Parliament - they wanted independence and if delivered, why vote for them afterwards...
-
19.9%
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/region/7.stm
-
Cross purposes. Scottish elections for Holyrood was 45.4%, according to the Beeb also, I think you're quoting UK elections.
Scotland elections 2011
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/election2011/constituency/html/scotland.stm)
JF
-
No I said General Election. Not the silly Holyrood Bamboo house one ;) My point is based on the whinging about getting a Tory government in General Elections when they didn't vote for one - the fact being they hugely didn't vote for the SNP either...
-
You did. I'll give you that one. The voting pattern in the 2010 GE does reinforce what I mentioned about the first Independent Scottish election, if it ever happens that is, and how folks will vote differently. I suspect that the Scottish Labour Party will be in seventh heaven if its a Yes on Thursday.
JF
-
Yes, that is where the progression of thought ended for me too.
-
Re: Jim Swift. Any credibility he had is destroyed by his passion for a No vote. He is a Tory councillor from a very affluent area of Scotland where the level of deprivation and poverty is way below the average. His brand of referendum economics is nothing more than Better Together propaganda.
JF
John
I am not accusing you of taking either side on this debate, I don't know your politics and it's none of my business, however, I must say that the part of your response quoted above just about sums up what I see from 'Yes' supporters. Not a word of the six minute presentation given in the video is disputed, let alone discussed, yet the fact that the guy is a conservative councillor is held up as a reason to disregard every word he delivers. If he was a Green Party councillor or a Labour councillor, would it have made a difference to the content?
I honestly have not followed this as closely as I maybe should, being inside the 'Fethiye Bubble' gets you that way, but the reading I have done and the various interviews I've heard given all seem to contain quite a bit of detail (which of course can be disputed) on the No side, yet on the Yes side when you strip away the fervour, you get down to the "fairer independent Scotland" argument, which apart from the independent bit, nobody seems able to explain.
-
Yes, that is where the progression of thought ended for me too.
Ah!! if only my Maggie were here Keith, she would have sorted this mess out. ;) ;) ; :)
-
steady des. thanks to YOUR
Maggie we are in this mess.
-
I hated Maggie with a passion but again for the record, the Scottish people who claim they got Tory Governments they didn't vote for, voted Tory nearly as much as nationalist SNP in the last General Election of 2010 (491,000 for Salmond, 412,000 for Cameron). Oh and more than two and and half times either of those for Labour.
Even with that huge Labour win over the border, like for the rest of us it didn't matter who won - they will have got a Government the majority didn't vote for. But the Yes campaign describe Tory rule as some freak hardship. That's democracy, as mentioned by Apollo (the CBF member, not the Greek God).
-
We get who we get because of lazy ignorant people who just dont vote, yet they shout the loudest when they dont like things. For years now, there's been a really poor turn out at local and national elections and a lot of it, is apathy. Well I dont think anyone has the right to moan if they haven't got off their lazy backsides and got themselves to the polling stations. Worry is now, people who haven't voted for years/never, are off to vote now, and from some of them I know, its all for the wrong reasons. IMHO
-
Yes I agree with all that - the strange thing for me specifically with this vote is that a rarely speak to anyone who will be voting yes, but nearly all the window posters, flags etc are Yes ones.
Seems to me the Yes campaign is a noisy one, and the No a quiet, understated one. This I suppose is quite normal - people get far more excited about the prospect of change than the prospect of keeping things as they are.
The poll that gave the Yes campaign it's first majority was received by Alec as evidence of the turning tide. To me it was just what the No campaign needed - a massive wake up call to all those who want to keep the Union but wouldn't have voted because they thought it was going to be a no vote regardless.
Just a shame the Yes poll brought all the "big players" rushing up from Westminster. They too believed it would never happen till that day and Salmon etc crowed that they were in panic. Sadly, he was right - and it gave just that impression.
But a No it will be :)
-
I am not accusing you of taking either side on this debate, I don't know your politics and it's none of my business, however, I must say that the part of your response quoted above just about sums up what I see from 'Yes' supporters. Not a word of the six minute presentation given in the video is disputed, let alone discussed, yet the fact that the guy is a conservative councillor is held up as a reason to disregard every word he delivers. If he was a Green Party councillor or a Labour councillor, would it have made a difference to the content?
Well yes, it would. Substitute the party for any of them and substitute the content to reflect their partys viewpoint and the same applies - they lose credibility. Maybe we're suffering from propaganda overload here and its bringing out the cynic in me, but to date, I haven't heard, read or watched any honest appraisal of what will happen if its a Yes vote on Thursday. All Mr Swift has done is regurgitate content (some of which is disputed) already out there from the Better Together campaign.
For the record... I am not a Yes supporter.
I honestly have not followed this as closely as I maybe should, being inside the 'Fethiye Bubble' gets you that way, but the reading I have done and the various interviews I've heard given all seem to contain quite a bit of detail (which of course can be disputed) on the No side, yet on the Yes side when you strip away the fervour, you get down to the "fairer independent Scotland" argument, which apart from the independent bit, nobody seems able to explain.
Don't knock the "Fethiye bubble" effect, there are times when it is an advantage - personally we're looking to immerse ourselves in an Andalucian bubble in the near future - the vote on Thursday isn't likely to affect us greatly, however it will affect our children, and our childrens children.
To be fair, I have spoken to many Yes supporters and they do believe they have the blueprint for a fairer Independent Scotland, but then again, they would!
Unfortunately, like Toky said above too many folks are confusing this vote with the inherent Scottish feeling to want to "stick it to the English" at every possible opportunity and personalities, i.e. Salmond and Cameron. Maybe we'd be better off with a two legged match at Wembley and Hampden between Salmonds XI and the DC All Stars...
JF
-
I believe that we are waiting for Colwyn to answer Rimms' post.
I answered this question three days ago while Hilary was getting ready to go out for dinner – which gave me plenty of time. Unfortunately, the case laid out was so powerful that, when I pressed the "Post" button, it crashed my internet connection. I concede that the impressive Turkish thunderstorm going on at the same time may have had some role in that as well. I couldn't be bothered to write it again – not knowing you were waiting for this – but here is a bit of a precis {with the thunder rumbling over the mountain again}.
To get a better perspective, I'd be interested to hear some of the lies put out by the no campaign. Could you enlighten me and also list who said it and when.
Big Lie Number One.
Scotland will not be able to use the £ if it votes for independence. This is utter nonsense from start to finish. No country can prohibit another country from using its currency. England cannot stop Scotland from using the Pound Sterling any more than the mighty United States of America can stop dozens of counties around the world from using the US $ - including North Korea {where most large business will not accept the N.K Won only $, Yuan or €} and Zimbabwe {where is is the only official currency}. This is not because these two countries are such good friends with the USA it gives them special permission to use their currency. Of course, when finally pressed hard enough to be forced to admit that this entire notion was bogus the “No” campaigners then “clarified” their position to say they really meant that Westminster would not agree to a currency union {see below}. This is entirely different but, perhaps hoping that a lot of people wouldn't notice this or wouldn't understand, “No” campaigners repeatedly returned to the “Scotland won't be able to use the pound" theme – the naughty little liars.
Who Said it and When? This would be a list that would stretch over many many pages. Just about every member of the no campaign said it, and said it over and over again. So did various Westminster ministers, politicians and puppet civil servants in the Treasury {who shouldn't be involved in this at all}.
What About the Currency Union? Following the final collapse of the big lie {when Darling was forced to admit this in the second televised debate} the notion of currency union had to be given great weightiness. It was now argued that it would be a tragic calamity for Scotland if it had a currency which was controlled by another country. What this ignores is that Scotland has a currency controlled by another country today – it is part of the UK package that the “No” campaign is trying to persuade the people of Scotland is so much better them Do you suppose that the Bank of England considers the needs of Scotland when it make policy decisions? Former Governor of the Bank of England, Eddie George, gave the lie to that years ago when he blurted out that unemployment in the North of England was a price worth paying to curb inflation in the South. If the BoE doesn't give a toss about the North of England, how much do you think it worries about Scotland?
-
That's all as maybe JF, but I'm concerned that the cost of my breakfast marmalade might be going south not to mention cake and shortbread rises too!
-
I believe the no campaign stated (numerous times) that an independent Scotland couldn't share the pound, not that they couldn't use the pound.
(And I can't believe I'm disagreeing with Colwyn in public - not often a good idea :D )
-
I am struggling to find any more than a minor semantic distinction between "use" and "share" in this context. Is it that people in Scotland can use the £; people in England can use the £; but we cannot share our £s. Eh? Be assured Scunner I have no intention of sharing my £s with you. I suspect this is some kind of political obfuscation. At the outset of the campaign politicians were more certain. I am not sure this really counts as "evidence" since it comes from the Daily Mail but I happened to have it at hand. It comes from November 2013. It comes from the UK Scottish Secretary and insists Scotland will have to "quit" sterling and it will be "excluded from the currency. [It strikes me that this is about as likely as Scotland refusing to let England use/shere the term Sterling due to this being a place in Scotland].
Scotland will be forced to quit the sterling if it votes for independence next year, the Scottish secretary has warned.
Alistair Carmichael said the country could not guarantee a currency union with the UK after becoming independent. ...
Speaking about the possibility of keeping sterling, Mr Carmichael told The Financial Times (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3d876614-52b6-11e3-8586-00144feabdc0.html): 'George Osborne has said ... it is highly unlikely.
Most people in Whitehall understand that if George Osborne says something is highly unlikely, it is not going to happen.'
And when asked if he believed an independent Scotland would be excluded from the currency, he simply replied: 'Yes'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511843/Scottish-secretary-Alistair-Carmichael-warns-Scotland-quit-sterling-votes-independence-year.html#ixzz3DUUKOQbc (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511843/Scottish-secretary-Alistair-Carmichael-warns-Scotland-quit-sterling-votes-independence-year.html#ixzz3DUUKOQbc)
-
Colwyn quoting the Daily Mail :o
My understanding was/is that the difference between sharing and using is having a (part) say over it's value and circulation etc = sharing, having no influence on these things but adopting it as the national currency (like Ecuador/USD) = using.
-
Watching a debate last night with guests Michelle Mone (Lingerie maker) and Brian Cox (actor). Brian who has been on the the campaign trail with the Yes people, was arguing with Michelle, who broke into his answer to ask him when he was going to buy a house in Scotland. Brian lives in New York with his second wife and his two young children. Glad, at last that someone asked one of these transatlantic celebrities this important question.
-
Good for her Jacqui, but what was his answer? ???
-
He is trying to find one !!!!
He is far too comfy in N.Y. with his new young wife and kids to come back to Scotland. These sort of people, and there are lots of them, all say they love Scotland, as it is the place of their birth. ( Rod Stewart the exception) However, none of these Scots who love Scotland and want to have a say in what happens, but don't have a vote, do not want to come back and live in Scotland. They have found a nice warm cosy place to live and rattle on about what they want to happen in Scotland as they are "True" Scots. This is a lot of nonsense. If you want a say in what happens to Scotland in the future, you live in Scotland. ;)
-
Quite right too! Jacqui ! :)
-
This just shows how low this campaigning has become. Organised rent a mob is not a strong enough description. It is becoming more like an AK Party campaign.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758136/Bow-imperial-master-Miliband-Labour-leader-hounded-Edinburgh-shopping-centre-Yes-protesters-pleads-civilised-debate.html
-
Yes Eric, they take their bullying from their leader:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11073598/Alex-Salmond-Meet-the-bully-behind-the-mask.html
-
And what a seasoned ITN reporter makes of it all
http://www.itv.com/news/2014-09-16/i-have-a-confession-to-make-i-am-not-enjoying-covering-the-scottish-referendum/
-
Salmond has cleverly whipped up the majority of yes voters (note..majority..not all) into a fighting frenzy where they actually believe that a no voter is not a true Scot and indeed a traitor. I have witnessed this in various parts of Scotland first hand. Indeed some of my friends have discussed the referendum in a manner suggesting that I would be letting Scotland down and that the English would win..... Ehm, I didn't realise we had gone to war with anyone, although when you look at some of these videos, that's what it looks like...I am now becoming less and less tolerant to this attitude. A YES vote is NOT a display of National loyalty.. It is just a choice that a Scot has made just like another Scot has chosen NO. Neither Scot is wrong!... We have all of us said at some time, "Don't trust what politicians say". So why do some people blindly believe what Alex says........ I just don't hear any straight answers from him as to HOW exactly things are going to be better and HOW we are going to be able to use the pound.....And what of the no campaign? Well, we are living in it now so we know what to expect. (to digress, theres mention of the dollar being used by other countries....... NOT SO... The name is being used. Yes, a North Korean Dollar, but you need 900 of them to make a USD. . How much will our pound actually be worth outside of Scotland? Oh, do some people believe that our pound is going to be worth the same as the rest of the UKs? Lets face it. Turkey won't even accept it now, what chance is there on Independence? We will have to exchange for British notes. Will it be a straight swap? No fees? ) Forget about politics and lets look at Scotland as it is now... I travel Scotland daily on a professional basis and have done so for the past 20 years.. I have seen incredible changes. Housing here is amazing with new estates being built EVERYWHERE!.. Council housing has dramatically improved. Slums are a thing of the past. There still are, but very very few still left, in comparison to years ago. Glasgow has gotten rid of most of its Tenement buildings of the past and there are virtually no high rise flats left... There are mostly NEW vehicles on the road with young drivers like never before, owning new cars... One of our bus services has just built a multi million pound complex (FIRST buses) with a BRAND NEW fleet of hundreds of buses... Shopping centres are being built virtually on top of each other, they are so close... Supermarkets are being built so that you cannot travel any longer than ten minutes till you get to the next one.. We have our free prescriptions and new Health Centres also being built everywhere.... Children's Nurseries are constantly on the increase with places not easy to get... We need even more... Police drive around in upmarket cars BMW VOLVO MERCEDES... Coffee shops and takeaways are consistently opening up. Costa Coffee, McDonalds, Tesco Express, Asian mini markets, these guys are opening new places every day. Friend of mine bought a house 20 yrs ago and rented it out. He now has 248, all rented. Private rental in Scotland has soared through the roof due to 'buy to let' mortgages... The restaurants in Glasgow and Edinburgh are heaving (the good ones anyway).... Check out the car sales showrooms of new and used cars. massive complexes. . astonishing.. Industrial estates are being built with the emphases on smaller units to accommodate young entrepreneurs. ..There are barbers and hair salons dotted everywhere. (I've had two for years and I'm still shocked at what my clients spend on themselves regularly and they come from ALL walks of life.)..... SO, WHAT ON EARTH IS IT THATS GOING TO MAKE SCOTLAND BETTER ????... Beware of the greed factor here people, and of a fiercely ambitious politician who has wanted to be the king of Scotland for as long as I remember................ PS. I would be willing to spend a day with any non believer of what I've put down and drive them around Scotland and they can show me where exactly there is need for improvement.....Did it with one friend. Opened his eyes. .We are almost autonomous up here. ........... YES/NO vote ?... My motto has always been, "If its not broken, don't try to fix it".
-
In my last post I mentioned the ' North Korean Dollar's value against the USD. Dont know what I was thinking about. Please replace with The Hong Kong Dollar needed as 7 for 1 USD..Jamaican dollar etc...... My point's still the same though. ;D
-
A really good post atinbay and I totally agree about Salmond.
He's always struck me as false, shallow and self. As does his sidekick. Bonnie & Clyde.
-
great post atinbay. agree with all your points. as for salmond the least said the better.
-
What About the Currency Union?
The way I see it is this; a) Any country can use another countries currency, ie Turkey uses The Pound Sterling, most of the world uses the US dollar
b)A country can name is currency as whatever it wants however an Egyptian, Syrian or Lebanese pound is not a pound sterling. And the Aussie dollar is not a US dollar.
c)Currency union is possible providing that both parties agree to the terms and conditions. The Euro being an obvious example.
d)The argument that there is already a currency union between Scotland, England and Wales belies the fact that in reality , with the exception of sport, they have been considered for a couple of centuries or so as regions of the same country "The United Kingdom"
My question is, why would a country which has fought so hard to become independent want their Fiscal arrangements controlled by the country from which they have just seperated?
Advantages of Dollarization
Many advantages occur when a country adopts a foreign currency. The new currency helps stabilize the economy, which sometimes eases political crises. This credibility and predictability promotes foreign investment. The new currency helps lower inflation and interest rates and eliminates conversion fees and the risk of devaluation.
Disadvantages of Dollarization
If a country adopts a foreign currency, the national central bank no longer exists. The country can no longer control its own monetary policy or aid the economy in case of emergency. It can no longer collect seigniorage, which is a profit gained because the cost to produce money is usually less than its value. Under dollarization, seigniorage is earned by the foreign country. Many believe that dollarization symbolizes foreign control and causes dependency. National currencies are a source of great pride for citizens, and some are very reluctant to give up the symbol of their country's sovereignty. Dollarization does not solve all economic or political problems, and countries can still default on debt or maintain low living standards.
-
In my last post I mentioned the ' North Korean Dollar's value against the USD. Dont know what I was thinking about. Please replace with The Hong Kong Dollar needed as 7 for 1 USD..Jamaican dollar etc...... My point's still the same though. ;D
Not quite the same point. HK can call its own currency what it likes. NK uses US$ and the name is written on them - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ... ONE DOLLAR. In NK one US$= one US$ - amazing eh? Along with this writing there is a little prayer "In God We Trust" {at least it did when I last saw one which was a while ago}. I don't know what atheist NK makes of this.
-
A Short Book on Scotland's Decision.
An interesting read, giving informed information and not expressing the contributors own views but dealing with available current and past information and statistic. It is based on only 16 questions which most people would like sufficient proper and balanced information to be able to understand and form an opinion on.
Although I have not been able to read in its entirety I think it gives a view which is most insightful and does not look to persuade the reader towards either Yes or No and gives plenty of scope to think about many aspects of this coming decision for all those interested.
http://scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scotlands_Decision.pdf (http://scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scotlands_Decision.pdf)
-
In my last post I mentioned the ' North Korean Dollar's value against the USD. Dont know what I was thinking about. Please replace with The Hong Kong Dollar needed as 7 for 1 USD..Jamaican dollar etc...... My point's still the same though. ;D
Not quite the same point. HK can call its own currency what it likes. NK uses US$ and the name is written on them - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ... ONE DOLLAR. In NK one US$= one US$ - amazing eh? Along with this writing there is a little prayer "In God We Trust" {at least it did when I last saw one which was a while ago}. I don't know what atheist NK makes of this.
Just meant that they can call it a Dollar but its not the same value as the USD :-)..
-
And I just meant they {North Koreans} call it a US dollar because it is a US dollar and hence of the same value as any other US dollar.
The BBC reported in 2009 that in some department stores in Pyongyang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang), the North Korean won is not accepted; and the stores only take Chinese Yuan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Yuan) and U.S. dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar). As of April 2013, most stores in North Korea take Euros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_won#Other_currency_used
-
A Short Book on Scotland's Decision.
An interesting read, giving informed information and not expressing the contributors own views but dealing with available current and past information and statistic. It is based on only 16 questions which most people would like sufficient proper and balanced information to be able to understand and form an opinion on.
Although I have not been able to read in its entirety I think it gives a view which is most insightful and does not look to persuade the reader towards either Yes or No and gives plenty of scope to think about many aspects of this coming decision for all those interested.
http://scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scotlands_Decision.pdf (http://scotlandseptember18.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Scotlands_Decision.pdf)
OKAY! So you care about Scotland and you are about to vote and make a decision that IS going to change your life.... Go out buy yourself a nice wine (or whatever your tipple is) and give yourself a couple of hours to read TEETEE's link. After all, it is probably one of the most important decisions of your life. I found it unbiased and informative and will probably give answers to the UNDECIDED voter and may change your vote . Whichever way you were going to vote. I have read half of it so far and had to take a break.( I ran out of wine)............... Great find TEETEE.
-
:)
And I just meant they {North Koreans} call it a US dollar because it is a US dollar and hence of the same value as any other US dollar.
Ok. I'm not doubting you. Not my strongest field, but I cannot get my head round how a country can perform poorly and the value of its money can be the same as a country which is monetarily richer, just because its named the same....... I'm making the comparison if I went to France as an independent Scot with £5, and you came with me with a British £5, would we be able to buy the same amount of baguettes ?...... Lets say one country (whichever) is near bankruptcy while the other is the richest in the world,how can the pound possibly buy the same ? Surely one of us has got to go hungry here as the other one gets fat. :)
-
atinabay I only happened across this last minute but if lots of those who wanted to have what appears to be non-biased information I think this would have been an eye opener.
My feeling is that if you have too much wine reading this you will miss the points and end up asleep ;) ;)
-
atinabay I only happened across this last minute but if lots of those who wanted to have what appears to be non-biased information I think this would have been an eye opener.
My feeling is that if you have too much wine reading this you will miss the points and end up asleep ;) ;)
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
-
Atinabay you are correct.
What you call a currency is not that relevant and the Scots many in future want to call their new currency the pound but if it is no aligned with the pound it will not have the same value.
You cannot have a currency with no historical value as whatever a new Scottish currency is called will have no value as it has no history of value. The pound has a value based on is historical use and the fact that is is worth what is states on it as with all other currencies.
If I take £200 Monopoly note to my local shop they will not take is as a note worth £200 Monopoly money because it has nothing to back it up like the The Bank of England and reserves and history to give it a value.
-
I'm not well versed on monitory systems but I can see a point where as a business in England we might not accept Scottish Notes.
Yes they can obviously continue to use the pound and I read today that the BOE has shipped £millions north of the border so that the canny Scots can take all their money out of the banks before it all goes teets up.
On the actual vote - a no from me and I think it will be a no from them as well. I'm sure many no voters have kept their own council due to fear of reprisals. They will be out in force tomorrow braving polling booths.
-
Maybe time to buy bitcoins :)
-
For goodness sake, give it a rest guys, I log on every day to Calis beach forum, and all im getting is bloody Jockland forum, What will be will be, let them get on with it and just wait till the result. by the way I am not anti Scots, I happen to think they make the best malt whisky in the world, their football team is crap (but then so is Englands) their rugby team is crap, but no one can throw a tree trunk around like a Scotsman. ;) ;) :) :) :) :)
-
On the actual vote - a no from me and I think it will be a no from them as well. I'm sure many no voters have kept their own council due to fear of reprisals. They will be out in force tomorrow braving polling booths.
Hit the nail on the head Stoop... It's getting to the ridiculous stupid stage that your scared of being ostracized because you want to vote NO. Reminds me of many a years gone past when you pretended that you voted labor, even if you hadn't. Scourge of the nation(Scotland) for not voting labour.. Sad pitiful mentality. I pay my taxes, I employ people, I contribute to my community, and I have a RIGHT and free will to vote for what I FEEL is right.. I'm not saying that I'm making the right choice.. No one is going to know what the right choice is until a few years down the line.
-
For goodness sake, give it a rest guys, I log on every day to Calis beach forum, and all im getting is bloody Jockland forum, What will be will be, let them get on with it and just wait till the result. by the way I am not anti Scots, I happen to think they make the best malt whisky in the world, their football team is crap (but then so is Englands) their rugby team is crap, but no one can throw a tree trunk around like a Scotsman. ;) ;) :) :) :) :)
Its the section on 'All things not Turkey' and the thread is about the vote in Scotland.... Don't see what else there is to talk about here.... But if you want to change the subject, fine.... Bearing in mind that you admit that we make the best malt here, on the basis that a bottle or two is polished off, don't you think that going outside tossing a few logs about seems the natural thing to do? Once the winner of the furthest toss has been established its straight to bed, a good rest and wake up in the morning looking out the window exclaiming.. 'Who the heck threw all ma logs over the back garden'? ;D
-
Well done , I needed that, :) :) :) :) ps , where the hell is Coatbridge? :)
-
North Lanarkshire :)