Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: usedbustickets on April 02, 2015, 08:55:08 AM
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Following last year's local government re-organisation much of the local political power and political decision making shifted to Mugla. So you can imagine how delighted I was when we went to pay our Council Tax to find that it had increased from 224TL to 475TL. This against the background, for example, of many local roads continuing to be un-repaired almost two years after the Canalisation work was started, lay offs of local council workers,and a pile of necessary improvement projects looking like they will never start. Now I know we can blame Reg's AKP central government for many of these problems, but the local politico's should also bear their share of the blame.
So I was charmed to see that Mugla's local Mayor had taken delivery of a 770,000TL Mercedes, and that it matched the one used by the Mugla Governor. See the link below for more details, and where even the AKP representative sounds reasonable on the matter >:( >:( >:(
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=80407 (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=80407)
Also it's the local hard working Turkish families I feel for. How on earth do they deal with prices doubling
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That's politics and I'm afraid it is the same the whole world over. I can virtually guarantee that if those politicians roles were reversed i.e. the AKP was in power in Mugla, they would do and say exactly the same thing about the CHP party. I think that we all agree that the vast majority of politicians are in for what they can get out of the system- not vice versa.
So in a democracy, the people usually vote for what they perceive to be the lesser of two evils. But what we all know, is that you will only get more of the same hypocrisy, corruption and nepotism. I personally believe that whenever you get the chance to vote it should never be for the mainstream parties for that reason.
The scale of the council tax increase is scandalous and unjustifiable. But, as ex-pats (or migrants as we should be called) in Turkey we do not have the vote, so we cannot exercise any democratic rights to even try and change the status quo.
Of course, we all can exercise the ultimate choice- take it or leave it!
Are we absolutely certain that the local Turks are having to pay double last years council tax?
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Are we absolutely certain that the local Turks are having to pay double last years council tax?
Come on you paranoids and conspiracy theorists. You've got an open goal here ! ;)
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I think that we all agree that the vast majority of politicians are in for what they can get out of the system- not vice versa.
No. We don't all agree with that. At least one of us thinks that is a rather glib and silly comment.
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I think that we all agree that the vast majority of politicians are in for what they can get out of the system- not vice versa.
No. We don't all agree with that. At least one of us thinks that is a rather glib and silly comment.
And I make two, what's the problem with paying just over £120 for a years Community Tax anyway ?? Most of the ex-pats can use the £200 Winter fuel Allowance, (which they shouldn't be illegally claiming), to pay for the increase, or, come back to Blighty, and stump up, in our case, nearly £1500 !!
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Many expats may be receiving Winter fuel Allowance. Certainly not most!
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The ex pats who live here full time but have another address in uk receive it ,not the ones who state this is there only home.
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One way of getting people to exit the country is to make it a less pleasant place or more expensive place to live. The present government regularly change the laws and many Turkish people, particularly the younger generation would love to leave Turkey because of restrictions being imposed on them. I don't think there are many countries where everything is perfect. You like it and can afford it = stay. The alternative is ????????
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Fuel allowance? Won't get a pension for 15 years - if it even exists then. Don't put all ex-pats in the same boat. Don't even know what the exchange rate is as, what little money I have, is in lira. I came to live in Turkey and, after 13 years, I still appreciate that I am a guest in this country and abide by their rules/regulations - whether I like them or not. I cannot compare prices with UK because I don't live there any more. and don't live by the GBP. I don't like the increases any more than anyone else, however, I agree with what other CBF members comments, if you don't like it, you can go back to good old blightly. However, when you are in this country ......
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The ex pats who live here full time but have another address in uk receive it ,not the ones who state this is there only home.
Do you really believe that all of the
ex-pats, or immigrants,who live FULL TIME in Turkey , and claim Winter Fuel Allowance, have a legitimate address in the UK Lance ?? I personally know of at least one couple who live full time in Fethiye , but use a family members address in the UK to maintain access to the National Health Service, free prescriptions ( age related ), and use the money saved in order to travel to a warmer climate in the Far East during the winter, and have the audacity to boast about , and post pics of holidays in the Far East !! I am sure that they are not the only ones either, I wonder if they too are moaning about the increase in Turkish Community Tax ??
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You make me laugh when the "same old" voices compare the cost of living here to the UK and 'bleat' about the prices 'we' pay back in Britain. The council tax and price of water are two of the latest examples.
Let me remind you that people here are not living in the UK, we are not eligible for the plethora benefits available there, we have to pay a high price for our healthcare and many are on a budget where a 350% increase in water bills and a 100% increase in council tax has a devastating effect.
Your comparison to UK cost of living is childish.
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Is there any requirement to have a UK address to be entitled to the Winter Fuel Allowance? I thought that was only a requirement for the Cold Weather Payment.
Can't say it worries me either way. The idea of a separate payment for Winter Fuel was a slippery scheme dreamed up by New Labour to get political credit for boosting pensioner earnings without actually increasing the pension. This made it easier to let rise devalue in real worth and/or be cut (both of which happened) whilst voters would think "God bless Tony Blair he made it possible for me to heat my home at Christmas". Bunkum. If New Labour had simply raised the pension in an honest way then there wouldn't be any argument about whether pensioners in Turkey are entitled to receive it. They would get it automatically. Just like they are automatically protected from UK inflation - though that don't go very far in covering Turkish inflation!
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I'm on your page Colwyn, great post.
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You’ll qualify for Winter Fuel Payment if:
you were born on or before 5 July 1952 (for winter 2014 to 2015 - this date changes every year)
you’ll be living in the UK throughout the week of 15 to 21 September 2014
You may still be able to get the payment if you live in another European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland and you have a genuine link with the UK.
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225TL per year is still less than £100. We are paying £160 PER MONTH in the UK. Less than £10 per month in Turkey seems reasonable to me. Water bill in the UK £25 per month doubt if I have paid more than £40 over the last 5 years in Turkey. I appreciate that we do not live there full time however please can we have some perspective on this?
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And the justification for doubling the Council Tax is ??
What if some more Mugla officials want new Mercedes supercars next year ??
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What I want to know is, what is so special about this darned car that it costs £280k. Sorry, I meant 770,000 TL.
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We lived in Turkey, the experience was enlightening, the area closed down in October and there was very few expats, wonderful, our council tax was 9TL our final council tax was 89TL, then what do you expect at inflation running at 23%.
Now living in the UK, I love it, we pay for our services and get much more for them than we ever did in Turkey, I will never regret our time in Turkey, yet very very happy to be in the UK and now just holiday in Turkey, too many expats for me now. ;) too much like little UK ghettos imposing our ways on the Turkish.
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Wow- a hornets nest has been kicked on this one! O.K, here we go:
I think that we all agree that the vast majority of politicians are in for what they can get out of the system- not vice versa.
No. We don't all agree with that. At least one of us thinks that is a rather glib and silly comment.
It is easy to come out with simple retorts such as this- to dismiss out of hand somebody's opinion just because you don't happen to agree with it and without any evidence or argument to back it up. If you believe my statement to be incorrect, then please explain WHY you believe it is so and just not label it as "glib" or "silly". I await to be convinced.
On the other hand to back up my belief, I can point to numerous examples to support my argument. Some recent examples in British politics to be going along with: Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind (two ex ministers) scandal in February. Both men were keen to emphasise their ability to open doors at the top of government and both men were apparently willing to accept money to do so. Moreover, who has forgotton the MP expenses scandal of 2010?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal
But that scandal was not good enough for our MP's. They were at it again last year:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/mps-expenses-under-fire
I therefore believe I have established evidence to substantiate my claim. And this is just British politicians. I haven't even started on Turkish politicians. Is anyone willing to suggest that they should they be held up as shining beacons of unimpeachable integrity?
The original post was a complaint of the hypocrisy that whilst his council tax had doubled, the Mayor was gallivanting around in a brand new 770,000tl car. The tax increase quoted was from 224 to 475tl. That equates to to a 112% increase. 475tl is approx £124, which admittedly by UK standards is small change for a years council tax. But that is not the point. We do not live in the UK. It's like trying to compare oranges and hand grenades. It is the percentage increase that surely cannot be justified. What has altered to warrant this increase? Is it better maintenance, more infrastructure projects, better services or what?
Likewise, the argument about the UK winter fuel allowance and the ability to pay the new council tax bill is not the real issue and seeks only to conflate and confuse the issue as made out in the original post. A bit of a red herring really.
As I said earlier, all we can do is moan about the situation, as migrants we are not empowered to change the system. The last poster has done something about it though and says he is (very) happy. He has made the ultimate choice.
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great post kawasakikid. fully agree with all points. well put.
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Just another thought on this.
Was there not another spike in the cost of council tax 6 or 7 years ago to pay for the previous sorting out of the roads and pavements?
In the years following the cost went down again.
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Just another thought on this.
Was there not another spike in the cost of council tax 6 or 7 years ago to pay for the previous sorting out of the roads and pavements?
In the years following the cost went down again.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that what you refer to was " Yolu vergi " , or " Road tax " , a one of payment which was to pay for , as you say, improvements to local roads. Our Turkish neighbours received a bill for this, but for some reason, we never ,ever did !!
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That could be it, we bought our place just after it had been levied so we got away with it.
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For information I paid my water bill yesterday and was surprised to find I could pay by debit or credit card which I did then today I thought I would go and pay my council tax and they too had a sign up saying Nakit veya Kredi Kart
The multiples are for water:
Units used x 3.5
And Council Tax:
Last years amount x 2 + 10% of last years bill
(This will be within a couple of lira)
When she gave me my council tax amount I smiled and said in my best Turkish "that's good" - she nearly fell off her chair but eventually smiled and was very nice - after all its not her fault its gone up :)
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Just another thought on this.
Was there not another spike in the cost of council tax 6 or 7 years ago to pay for the previous sorting out of the roads and pavements?
Yes it was road tax we ended up paying about £450 each for that and years later got a proper road.Not everyone paid this tax and it appears those that didn't were not sanctioned in any way,I suppose we should have taken our Turkish neighbours advice.We will next time !
In the years following the cost went down again.
I may be mistaken, but I believe that what you refer to was " Yolu vergi " , or " Road tax " , a one of payment which was to pay for , as you say, improvements to local roads. Our Turkish neighbours received a bill for this, but for some reason, we never ,ever did !!
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For information I paid my water bill yesterday and was surprised to find I could pay by debit or credit card which I did then today I thought I would go and pay my council tax and they too had a sign up saying Nakit veya Kredi Kart
The multiples are for water:
Units used x 3.5
And Council Tax:
Last years amount x 2 + 10% of last years bill
(This will be within a couple of lira)
When she gave me my council tax amount I smiled and said in my best Turkish "that's good" - she nearly fell off her chair but eventually smiled and was very nice - after all its not her fault its gone up :)
Ian are you saying council tax has gone up by twice last years amount plus 10 per cent? or it has only gone up by 10 per cent from last years amount?
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Double + 10%
Mine was 180 - now 380
So 180 x 2 + 18 = 378
Good enough quick calc to know roughly what to expect so you are not shocked and haven't enough cash at the counter.
Ps I have tested the formula with two friends and it is within 1 or 2 lira each time.
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Is this all going to have a knock-on affect on the price of Efes ?
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As a non drinker I am more concerned about the Cappuccino Index :-)
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Do we pay it at the new office past Kipa opp Tansas, same place we pay water? What do we need to take with us? Tapu and utilities Bill ?
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Is this all going to have a knock-on affect on the price of Efes ?
Yes, it is. Current price of Efes at a bar/cafe is about 7.5tl. Using the above calculations (7.5 x 10%) + (100% x 7.5) = 15.75tl.
Then, take away the number you first thought of and then, "hey presto"- your new price!
But this will only apply to ex pats. Locals or ex-pats with kimlik will not have to pay, or at least get a discount amounting to 112%
Simples...
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Still pay Council Tax in town - just take last year's bills / receipts as they have your Customer Number on them (one for each name on tapu) - water at new place past Calis Kipa.