Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum

General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 18:27:33 PM

Title: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 18:27:33 PM: As Highlander is fond of saying, this is pure self-indulgence. About six months ago I complained on here that I had been required to join the dreaded Facebook since I had been made Chair of our newly-founded Community Association. This was formed to fight plans to build detached luxury executive houses in the beautiful Frome Valley that borders our little estate. The site was described by the owners/developers as “useless scrubland” and by us as a “wildlife haven”.

OUR USELESS SCRUBLAND (aka WILDLIFE HAVEN)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/ColwynJones/Avatar_zps1tead2hw.jpg)

The land should have been safe since it is covered by a five-way planning lock: it is in a “Conservation Area”; it is one of Bristol’s “Historic Parks and Gardens”; it is a “Wildlife Corridor”; it is defined as an “Important Open Space”; and part of it goes onto a “Functional Flood Plain”. Surely no chance of building there, you might think. Except for the fact that the owners of the land are Bristol’s Merchant Venturers. This is a wealthy and powerful elite organization and has been so since the 15^th century especially after its coffers were boosted by the Slave Trade. It is Bristol’s own version of Turkey’s “Deep State”.

So we have been fighting them for nearly six months and it has been hard work. Yesterday was decision day for the Council and ... the Planning Committee met debated and ... unanimously rejected the building proposal and reaffirmed that site was part of Bristol’s “Heritage Assets” and not to be built upon. There are a lot of people with big smiles and thick heads around here this morning. I hope this little story gives support to any of you are involves in similar struggles against big forces – you can win!

[p.s. For those on here cynical about politicians being only in it for themselves I should add that our two local councillors have been absolutely brilliant and worked their socks off for our campaign].

WE DID IT ! WE CAN PUT AWAY OUR BANNERS AND PLACARDS

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/ColwynJones/Victory_zpsokcpzahk.jpg)
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: usedbustickets on September 03, 2015, 18:36:56 PM: Just a quick questionette Colwyn, would you have opposed the building of socially necessary housing on this land?
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 18:47:04 PM: Yes, it is part of Bristol's heritage assets as confirmed by the Council. We have a petition running in parallel with our campaign calling on the City Council to use brownfield sites for building. Already 75%+ of Bristol new builds are on such sites and the Council is actually ahead of its building targets to 2025. We want to increase the % of brownfield land used and now have 1000 signatures. At the Council meeting yesterday one Councillors offered the developers a brownfield site in his own ward to replace the potential lost in ours. Apparently he has been trying to get houses built there for a couple of years. So much for the developers' claim that brownfield sites are difficult to come by!

By the way, 2015 is Bristol European Green Capital Year.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: usedbustickets on September 03, 2015, 18:56:31 PM: But of the building on brownfield sites, how much was socially necessary housing and how much was, for example, fancy dockland flats/apartments or executive homes, and indeed how much of the brownfield developments were for new factories, workshops' lockups or the sort of places that can be used to create ongoing jobs, ideally not the minimum wage / zero hour contract sort.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Highlander on September 03, 2015, 20:31:56 PM: I think I am correct in saying that any housing development In Scotland has to contain 25 % social housing being it on green or brown field sited.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 20:33:03 PM: I am not sure where you are going with this UBT. But the answers are: the 75%+ figure applies only to housing. I have no idea how many of these might be considered fancy, certainly not all of those by the harbour are; I don't know about the the building of workplaces or what contracts the future workers might be on when/if they they open.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: davybill on September 03, 2015, 20:34:24 PM: Make a nice golf course Colwyn.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 20:39:13 PM: H, in Bristol in builds of 10 or over there has to be proportion of "Affordable Housing". "Social" is defined as available at 50% of market price; "Affordable" is 80%. Originally the proposal was for 12 houses, two being Affordables. This was revised to 9 houses so none had to be Affordables.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 03, 2015, 20:45:01 PM: Quote from: davybill on September 03, 2015, 20:34:24 PM
Make a nice golf course Colwyn.
And since the main part of the field is classed as playing fields it could be changed to that without having to back to the Council I suppose. Since the start of the week it has laid out as rugby pitches. Problem is, that most years there would be periods of underwater golf - it is a flood plain.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Highlander on September 03, 2015, 20:51:53 PM: My error Colwyn - affordable is the term I should have used.

But hey - you wouldn't expect a QS to know the difference. :)
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: nichola on September 03, 2015, 22:48:46 PM: Well done Colwyn and team; a fantastic result for the environment and a great example of successful social action.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: KKOB on September 03, 2015, 23:52:17 PM: QS ? Quality Second ? ;)
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: kevin3 on September 04, 2015, 10:15:09 AM: Looking at the photograph I think it would make a wonderful refugee camp, the little kids would love it.

And it would be socially responsible.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: usedbustickets on September 04, 2015, 10:24:43 AM: My point Colwyn is that there is a lot of back slapping and congratulations going on about stopping developments - green or brownfield - with no regard for the necessity for building homes for families/pensioners/single adults - perhaps even Syrian migrants - who invariably cannot afford to rent, let alone buy, much of the so called 'social' and 'affordable' housing that are being built these days. And the little of this social and affordable housing that is built is invariably on the back of executive home/luxury apartments, as a sop to planning gain to that development.

This is made worst by the government in its attempts to hit its austerity targets, hitting the working poor - in the main - with either no or reduced or capped housing benefit payments. In a growing number of areas this is also leading to them being driving out - ethnically cleansed might be a better term - from affluent or desirable areas, into poorer areas where there is even less chance of getting a decent home. And this is happening in both urban and rural areas. We are seeing a return to Rachmanism in many urban areas, and sadly it is being paid for in many cases by housing benefit, because of the absence of reputable large volume providers of such as council housing or even housing associations, who strangely enough no longer building in any sort of required numbers, as the government has turned off the money, and are now being told to sell off their existing housing stock to tenants at discount prices!!!

As regards the argument of environment vs homes, I am afraid that the pendulum has swung too far in favour of the so called environment, which I am sorry to say that in my experience usually provides a mask for NIMBYism. And if you want the proof of that, look at how environmentally active those NIMBYs were before Council Planning tells them that they are going to build X number of houses near to them, and indeed how many go on to be life time environmental activists after they have overturned the planning application of the big bad developers and councils!!

There is a chronic housing shortage, and shortage of the right type of housing, in most parts of the UK. This needs to be addressed if we are ever to do anything about our children and grand-childrens futures housing prospects (both in terms of affordability and availability), or even for those who say we should take in migrants or foreign workers from wherever. And for those who say it can't be done then look at what happened in post-war Britain in the 50s, 60s and parts of the 70s, where we had next to bugger all but still managed to build homes numbered in the hundreds of thousands, not as today where it is measured in tens of thousands. And much of the housing stock built then has become highly desirable today, not just because of location (many on what would be considered green field sites today) but also in terms of the quality, where the building standards set the bar high .... unlike today where they try to get the bar as low and as cheap as possible. Oh yes and if you are building homes you'll need new or improved schools, hospitals, roads and transport... the Post-War Generation also done that much better than today!!

Finally, for info Colwyn is a great pal of mine, and my contributions in this thread have in no way been an attack on him personally, but are my attempt to get people to see the bigger picture on development.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: usedbustickets on September 04, 2015, 10:25:56 AM: Quote from: kevin3 on September 04, 2015, 10:15:09 AM

Looking at the photograph I think it would make a wonderful refugee camp, the little kids would love it.

And it would be socially responsible.
Cheeky monkey ;) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 04, 2015, 10:52:34 AM: Quote from: Highlander on September 03, 2015, 20:51:53 PM
But hey - you wouldn't expect a QS to know the difference. :)
I didn't know either six months ago. Since then I've learned a lot about planning regulations. And about landscape, heritage, traffic assessment and hydrology. I also now know how you can tell if a badger sett is active if it is a cold day, where on the river bank the kingfishers have explored for nesting purposes and where the otters habitually poo.
Title: Re: People Power
Post by: Colwyn on September 04, 2015, 11:23:13 AM: Quote from: usedbustickets on September 04, 2015, 10:24:43 AM
Finally, for info Colwyn is a great pal of mine, and my contributions in this thread have in no way been an attack on him personally,
Never thought for a minute that it was UBT.

A few people - about half a dozen - did throw the charge of NIMBYism at us. The term NIMBY is usually aimed at opposition to perceived unpleasant developments that are liable to reduce the value of local property. The developers in this case pointed out that the houses planned would be far more expensive than those nearby and would thus "raise the tone" of the neighbourhood and so increase the value of our houses. We didn't object to the houses; we objected to them being plonked in an important historic landscape. The developers implied that building these fine homes would improve the landscape since they would screen our nasty little 1930s terrace houses from public view. It was this same public that wrote the vast bulk of the 300+ letters of objection that were submitted to the council and who swelled our petition to 1000. We were also supported not only by our two Labour councillors, but also all but one of the candidates for our constituency in the General Election - Labour, Lib-Dem, Green, and Trade Union & Socialist Alliance. Only the Conservative candidate did not answer but we did get the support of the Tory councillor in a neighbouring ward.

As you say there are a number of difficult issues concerning housing policy in the UK and plenty of scope for disagreements and political discussion. But I've been doing that for the last six months and this week is one for celebration - which should last long enough to to take me through to our holiday in Greece starting next Wednesday.