Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: usedbustickets on September 24, 2015, 11:39:52 AM
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Very interesting article in today's Al Monitor on the return of a lynching culture in Turkey http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-revival-of-lynching-culture-against-kurds.html?utm_source=Al-Monitor+Newsletter+%5BEnglish%5D&utm_campaign=891335b2d9-September_23_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_28264b27a0-891335b2d9-102368677 (http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/09/turkey-revival-of-lynching-culture-against-kurds.html?utm_source=Al-Monitor+Newsletter+%5BEnglish%5D&utm_campaign=891335b2d9-September_23_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_28264b27a0-891335b2d9-102368677). I have drawn out one section of the article which is very pertinent to us in this area.
On Sept. 8, nationalists in the Mediterranean town of Fethiye launched a manhunt for Ibrahim Cay, a Kurd who had shared a picture of himself clad in traditional Kurdish attire on Facebook. Cay received a call from the local paramilitary police commander, who told him to stay at home and that he was coming to pick him up. Soon, not the commander but two cars and four motorcycles arrived outside his home. Cay saw what was coming and ran away. A mob of about 70 people soon got hold of Cay, beat him up in the town square and forced him to kiss the Ataturk statue there. It was only then that the paramilitary police arrived to rescue the battered man. In the hospital, doctors refused to treat him, while a mob of some 300 frenzied people gathered outside, waiting to lynch him. The security forces, who did nothing to the assailants, took Cay to the police station for questioning. The paramilitary commander then attempted to send Cay out on his own, though the mob was now waiting outside the police station. Cay managed to safely leave the station and then the town thanks to relatives who came to pick him up. The five assailants he had named in his testimony walked free after questioning, while the prosecution launched a criminal investigation against Cay on charges of “praising crime and criminals” by posting a picture of himself in “peshmerga attire.”
Very sad and very worrying, especially the point that doctors refused to treat the injured man. Yes this is just one example of the campaign of war, death, violence and hatred stirred up by Reg to deliver his political ambition or indeed to ensure his political survival. However, the people who carried out this particular attack, and others in this area, are our neighbours and perhaps friends too. And this sort of thing cannot do the tourism trade any good either.
So it is no surprise then that a number of people are considering leaving Fethiye/Turkey, or even leaving or planning to leave this winter. When you speak them the political uncertainty is a high consideration spoken of by all. Even if their main reason for going is something different like family, trying another country or the 'time has come' to go home. Might be worth starting a new CBF section to follow 'Moving to Turkey' to be called 'Moving Out Of Turkey' :( :(
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Very worrying indeed UBT. Thank you for sharing.
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Very sad and very worrying, especially the point that doctors refused to treat the injured man. Yes this is just one example of the campaign of war, death, violence and hatred stirred up by Reg to deliver his political ambition or indeed to ensure his political survival. However, the people who carried out this particular attack, and others in this area, are our neighbours and perhaps friends too. And this sort of thing cannot do the tourism trade any good either.
This type of incident has been happening for some time now along the south coast, Antalya, Alanya, Side etc. Shops and businesses owned by Kurds have been targeted by hate filled mobs, who a few hours previously happily bought bread, SIM cards, çay and other day to day items from these businesses. Nationalist and anti Kurd propaganda & speeches turn, as you said, your "neighbours and friends" into a bunch of thugs, willing to ignore the principles of law and order, to wreak vengeance on the nasty Kurds.
I said some time ago that recent events in Turkey are becoming increasingly like those in pre war Germany, and it pains me to be proved correct. In addition to Margaret Thatchers biography* being little Reginalds preferred bedtime reading, I think someone also gave him a copy of Mein Kampf.
*Disclaimer: other dictators and despots biographies are also available (lets hope PolPots isnt phucking next!).
JF
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Not long after I moved here, I was asked by someone who has lived here for 20+ years, why I chose Fethiye.
After I waxed lyrical for a good 10 minutes with all the usual stuff, she told me I was in the wrong place.
And I certainly understand her point. There's a distinct lack of culture here and an often thinly disguised air of tolerating yabangee and some out and out racism towards Kurds.
I've witnessed some distinctly unsavoury behaviour from the Jandarma when my house was burgled and it has made me wary of them.
Fethiyans don't even speak Turkish properly! I had an albeit short conversation with a family from Istanbul today in the baker's shop and we all understood each other perfectly. I then turned to the shop assistant and asked for my usual bread to be met with a blank look. This happens regularly. So I ask in English and am served.
However, I love it here.
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If there are 20 million Kurds in Turkey and there was a movement such as the IRA or ETA formed by the Kurds who felt they were being badly treated it would be a disaster for the Turkey and it's economic.
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a movement such as the IRA or ETA
Well actually there is - it's called the PKK and has been around since 1984.
JF
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We should remember that in the 1980s and 1990s 40,000 people died in what some people called a "civil war" between the Turkish Government and its military and police forces on one side and Kurdish nationalists and the PKK on the other - with plenty of citizens killed in the course of this conflict.
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I get the sentiment but the report is exaggerated as we were sitting with Kurdish friends at the time who received a text and photo of this as they are friends of the man in question.There was nowhere near the numbers involved .
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a movement such as the IRA or ETA
Well actually there is - it's called the PKK and has been around since 1984.
JF
Yes, but not like the IRA who operated all over the U.K. with bombs etc., I have not heard of the PPK bombing the local tourists resorts. I assumed they were mainly around the Turkish Border. I must read more about this subject.
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It maybe exagerated in Fethiye, but not in places like Alanya.
(http://s12.postimg.org/4mfjmv7nd/pkk.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4mfjmv7nd/)
a movement such as the IRA or ETA
Well actually there is - it's called the PKK and has been around since 1984.
JF
Yes, but not like the IRA who operated all over the U.K. with bombs etc., I have not heard of the PPK bombing the local tourists resorts. I assumed they were mainly around the Turkish Border. I must read more about this subject.
I think you should. There were PKK attacks in Marmaris and Antalya not that many years ago, and numerous in Istanbul and Ankara - all in addition to activity in the east and south east of the country. To be frank, they make the IRA look like amateurs.
JF
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I said some time ago that recent events in Turkey are becoming increasingly like those in pre war Germany, and it pains me to be proved correct.
In a way you're right but the major difference is that the Jews in pre war Germany had not been killing and bombing thousands of Germans for many years.
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It maybe exagerated in Fethiye, but not in places like Alanya.
(http://s12.postimg.org/4mfjmv7nd/pkk.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4mfjmv7nd/)
a movement such as the IRA or ETA
Well actually there is - it's called the PKK and has been around since 1984.
JF
Yes, but not like the IRA who operated all over the U.K. with bombs etc., I have not heard of the PPK bombing the local tourists resorts. I assumed they were mainly around the Turkish Border. I must read more about this subject.
I think you should. There were PKK attacks in Marmaris and Antalya not that many years ago, and numerous in Istanbul and Ankara - all in addition to activity in the east and south east of the country. To be frank, they make the IRA look like amateurs.
JF
Most PKK attacks in resorts have been covered up by the local authorities. Either a gas bottle exploded, a garbage truck had a flat tire, somebody accidently threw a lighter refill cannister in the trash that exploded in the heat, an aircon malfunctioned, etc etc.
I'm talking about the 90's when Turkish government was trying their hardest to increase tourism. Everything was done to attrack more tourists.
At the time you couldn't find a single garbage bin in any of the resorts because PKK used them to hide their bombs.
Hundreds of undercover police were roaming the streets in the resorts trying to prevent trouble.
I agree that PKK makes the IRA look like amateurs.
Kurdish language wasn't allowed to be spoken in the schools (that has only changed relatively recently). Everything was done in Turkish and as a revenge the PKK has killed hundreds of teachers.
Most of them young teachers, newly graduated. Since nobody wants to teach in the east, every new teacher (and doctor as well) has to work in a place that the government assigns you for two years. After those two years they're free to go and apply anywhere they want. But without having worked these obligatory two years, no doctor and teacher is able to work anywhere else.
Hundreds of teachers got killed because they were forced by the government to teach in the east. Teachers were scared to go there but they didn't really have a choice.
At least 40.000 people got killed by the PKK. I remember very clearly how aware I was of PKK and possible problems when I first came to this country. It was like looking over your shoulder all the time to make sure that everything was fine.
With time passing, you tend to forget but that is easy for me. I never lost a family member, friend or neighbour whereas most Turkish people did.
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Dutchie
What are your views on the peace process.? I'm an outsider but to me it seemed so close to becoming
a permanent deal and then after the elections it was scrapped.
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There was a bomb blast in the 90's in a bin in Fethiye harbour that injured many people.
Yes, a cease fire had been in place since 2013 but someone was sulking about losing votes to the Kurdish party and decided to stir things up.
Strangely it's thought to be too dangerous now for some South Eastern towns to have polling stations in November.
How convenient.
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My view...
Exactly as written in the post above.
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I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I am extremely sceptical about the recent events.
- 400 kg of explosives have been hidden in a road without anybody noticing anything
- For RTE to get enough votes to change the constitution, HDP should not pass the 10 precent treshold so anti Kurdish sentiments are of good use.
I don't want to point a finger but somebody is bound to benefit from it.
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I'm surprised at the comments above saying that Yabangees are tolerated.
I often remark how the UK would have reacted to an influx of thousands of different nationalities moving into their area building humongous villas with pools next to their modest homes.
I've never witnessed anything remotely rascist or an air of tolerance towards me, would be interested in other peoples views.
A new thread maybe?
I've had the occasions where the shop owners don't know the prices of their items and phone a friend to come to the shop as there's a Yabancı there.
I wouldn't call it intolerant, more opportunist and I always say Yabancı değilım and walk out at that point.
As for 'Fethiyans' not speaking proper Turkish...it's a dialect!!
In the same way as I struggle to understand Newcastleans I've found you have to tune in to it and relearn words such as dakika which is spoken as dakka here.
I wouldn't say they can't speak properTurkish anymore than I would say anyone outside of Surrey can't speak English.
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I wouldn't say they can't speak properTurkish anymore than I would say anyone outside of Surrey can't speak English.
You shouldn't of said that, KK.
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It's amazing how many people have awful grammar - Facebook has exposed them for things like not being able to use your & you're correctly. Lucky we have a few who can use English correctly - Dutchie for one :D
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Innit tho'
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I'm from good old Sussex by the Sea, we speak proper like our mums learnt us.
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Dakika being pronounced as dakka and naber instead of ne haber is a national "problem".
The people from Fethiye do speak with a dialect but it isn't too bad. "Ovacikians" speak the worse I would say.
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It's amazing how many people have awful grammar - Facebook has exposed them for things like not being able to use your & you're correctly. Lucky we have a few who can use English correctly - Dutchie for one :D
When we first arrived in Fethiye region six years ago I started thinking that I had skipped a few grammar lessons in school since I kept hearing the same kind of phrase which I had never heard before: "I was sat in the restaurant". I even googled it to see whether it was grammatically correct :)
I also won't forget the look on my (Turkish) husbands face the first time that somebody said "He don't". He got so confused and asked afterwards how somebody was able to say that. Six years later he stopped asking lol.
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When we first arrived in Fethiye region six years ago I started thinking that I had skipped a few grammar lessons in school since I kept hearing the same kind of phrase which I had never heard before: "I was sat in the restaurant". I even googled it to see whether it was grammatically correct :)
The standard of English grammar taught in schools in The Netherlands (and Germany) is far higher than that taught in the UK - a good friend, and for several years a colleague, was always correcting both mine and another native speakers grammar. He was Dutch and learned English and German at school from an early age - his English was amusing as he spoke with an Irish accent having working in Dublin for about a fortnight :)
JF
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Ahh, that would be Mr O'clogerty. ;)
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Bloody hell Kevin, you know him too? That boy doesn't half get about :)
JF
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I'm from good old Sussex by the Sea, we speak proper like our mums learnt us.
What Ho Kaya, Goring by Sea in my case, but ran away to be a soldier as a young man, and, as they say, I am still here because "Old soldiers never die, they only fade away, lie my tan when I go home again! JT
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boring Goring as known to us shorehamites :)
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Need to add to that though, it will always have a place in my heart, it's where my very special friend Sarah lived, sadly she died a couple of years ago, but have great memories of visiting her in Goring.
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For we're the men from Sussex, Sussex by the Sea.
We plough and sow and reap and mow,
And useful men are we;
And when you go to Sussex, whoever you may be,
You may tell them all that we stand or fall
For Sussex by the Sea! ;)