Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: Colwyn on December 01, 2015, 16:35:01 PM
-
Parliament will be debating and voting on the issue tomorrow. It looks certain that the vote will be to start bombing. But does this represent your view? I have written to my (Labour) MP, who says she hasn't made up her mind yet, urging her to support the lead given by Jeremy Corbyn. So has Hilary and as a new Labour Party member she has also replied similarly to the Corbyn national call for the expression of opinions.
-
Yes I responded to Corbyn's consultation. I don't say never to military action to clearing the world of ISIS, but adding bombing of ISIS in Syria to Iraq adds nothing to achieving military victory over them as I can see. Besides which the whole area is now a massive mess in military/political terms, no real common strategy with too many participants with their own agenda's. Some of whom, like Turkey and Saudi, has nothing to do with defeating ISIS, and others like Iran and Russia who are just keen on propping up a brutal despotic Assad regime in Syria. So what do we want to get involved in this mess for, other than to increase the profile of 'Call Me Dave' on the world stage...pathetic pip squeek!!
I also offered the opinion that Corbyn needs to drastically lift his game as leader if firstly Labour is to lead and win this parliamentary campaign against bombing Syria, and perhaps more importantly win the next general election. And if he can't he should stand down now ..... mind you not sure where the next Labour leader will come from. Never seen the party so devoid of leadership, character and ideas.... perhaps it is time for my to return to the English shores to do political battle again?? .... cometh the hour cometh the man ;) :o : :)
BTW not worth lobbying my local Tory MP, the man's a complete klutz.
-
My MP has written back and said she will be voting against bombing. I suppose that makes her what Cameron calls a "terrorist sympathizer" - a despicable allegation even by his crass standards.
-
Cameron wasn't referring to your MP, he was referring senior members of the Labour Party who
in the past have expressed sympathy with terrorists whose atrocities have slaughtered innocent
UK citizens. To my way of thinking they are guilty of treason.
-
The most frustrating aspect here is that a high proportion of those voting have no idea what is happening in both Syria and northern Iraq, and not a clue how dropping tons of munitions down over a vast area will affect those NOT connected or affiliated to IS.
JF
-
Yes I responded to Corbyn's consultation.
UBT - may I ask if you received one of the emails sent out by Jeremy Corbyn ?
-
Cameron wasn't referring to your MP, he was referring senior members of the Labour Party
I see that is the interpretation that Tory spin doctors are trying to put on it. But even those members of the Labour Party who are going to vote with the Government aren't seeing it that way.
-
In starting his speech Cameron has insisted he did not mean that those voting "Against" today were doing anything else other than voting with "honour" but he declined to retract the original statement.
-
senior members of the Labour Party who in the past have expressed sympathy with terrorists
Not just terrorists, I can clearly remember Ms Abbott standing beside Bernie Grant after the Broadwater Farm riots when he made his ill advised comments regarding the Police receiving "a bloody good hiding" and yes, I know he claimed his words were taken out of context but at the time, we all knew what he meant.
JF
-
Yes I responded to Corbyn's consultation.
UBT - may I ask if you received one of the emails sent out by Jeremy Corbyn ?
Yes I did. I've been a member of the Labour Party - through good and bad - for over forty years now. So Corbyn asked my views, along with all other party members, and I responded.
-
Thanks for the reply UBT.
-
I feel pretty much like an outside observer wondering what the blue blazes is going on.
I'd love to have a firm opinion and be prepared to stand up and argue my point.
But I can't because I don't know enough.
What will be the short, medium and long - term effects if we either bomb them or not? "Experts" views are poles apart.
I read sensible papers (and occasionally the Sun and the Mirror as well) watch the news, read all the disparate views on this and other matters...and I'm still unsure enough to hold a firm opinion.
Of course, in a perfect world we'd all be wholly communistic and working as a global team with the "haves" supporting the "have nots" like any normal family would.
It would be lovely to wake up in Teletubby world and see rainbows and play with the unicorns - and religion and majesty and might and power would have absolutely no part to play in any of it.
It simply ain't that way.
Syria's no more evil than Chipping Norton. It's a place. With people living there.
Is it really that impossible to speak to the people who are causing this and find out what they really want?
If what the terrorists want is global Islam with no other choice then that's unacceptable.
If they're saying we have to have it or get blown up we have to stop them.
Colwyn, UBT et al - I admire your conviction to stand up and be counted. I don't know whether you're right though.....
Apologies for this rambling, stream of consciousness post.
I'm sure I'm not alone in my ignorance.
-
I am sure you are not... I dont know what is either and sure that there are millions like us.
-
Good post Stuart. Those are pretty much my own views too. I've listened to lots of news reports and discussions and am still not clear on what is the right way to go about solving this situation and, as mercury has said, I"m sure we're not the only ones.
-
I've just watched the best speech of todays debate in Parliamant by the next leader of the Labour
Party, Hilary Benn. He was applauded by the Tories for two minutes, such was his speech. Brilliant.
He put Corbyn and Co in the shade and rightly so. If anything can save the Labour from falling
apart at the seams it was Benn and his speech. I was a lifelong Labour supporter and member,
Putting up posters,leaflet dropping,knocking doors on Election days,driving voters to polling stations.
But Blair, Brown and Mandelson's New Labour and their lies cured me of any desire to vote for Labour
ever again.
-
Eh??? What does this part 1 of the vote mean, and when is part 2? Are they going in or not ?? ??? :-[
-
Bernie. They'll have the second vote in a minute. :)
They have voted in favour of airstrikes by a majority of 174.
-
Hilary Benn was immense :)
-
Scarey times :-[
-
Hilary Benn was immense :)
I doubt his dad would agree
-
I think his dad would have been proud of his conviction. It was awesome.
-
Hilary Benn is his own man and he is shaping up to be the next leader of the Labour Party.
-
In starting his speech Cameron has insisted he did not mean that those voting "Against" today were doing anything else other than voting with "honour" but he declined to retract the original statement.
A bit like Ken Livingstone then, who refused to apologise for this:
"They took Londoners lives in protest against our invasion of Iraq.”
-
Anyway - a big day for Corbyn tomorrow across the Pennines. Lose that seat to UKIP and he's history I think.
-
Nice try Stoop! Still can't blame you for believing the frenzied media hype, you're not the only one :)
Labour has not only won the Oldham West and Royton by-election – but increased its share of the vote since the general election in May.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/labour-hold-oldham-west-royton-10547188
-
I was actually thinking I could go back to voing Labour if Benn was the leader (I have not voted Labour since Blair). However, I really do not like the way that Labour M.P's have been threatened, even death threats for not voting No. Seems like a lot of very undesireable people who support the Labour Party now.
-
So the UK's first air strike was to bomb the Omar oil fields... rather unfortunate that they were already obliterated more than a month ago by the US led coalition then really...
http://www.business-standard.com/article/international/coalition-strikes-destroy-is-oil-field-in-syria-spokesman-115102300031_1.html
-
Nice try Stoop! Still can't blame you for believing the frenzied media hype, you're not the only one :)
Labour has not only won the Oldham West and Royton by-election – but increased its share of the vote since the general election in May.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/labour-hold-oldham-west-royton-10547188 (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/labour-hold-oldham-west-royton-10547188)
Yes, up from 55% of the vote to 62% in a few months. Tories down from 18% to 9%. I hope the unreconstructed Blairites in the Labour Party will now calm down.
-
Colwyn
Do you support the Labour Party members that are putting photo's of human severed heads and body parts through the mail boxes
of homes and offices of Labour MPs that voted for air strikes, and threatened their staff with violence.??
Do you support Ken Livingstone condoning these actions, inferring that the MPs deserved these actions.??
Do you condone the thousands of Corbyn supporters that are infiltrating the constituence's of Labour MPs that don't agree with
Corbyn in order to oust them and get their own people in.?? Did you miss the air strike debates and votes. They were quite good
but Hilary Benn's was brilliant.
-
Wow, lots of questions!
Colwyn
Do you support the Labour Party members that are putting photo's of human severed heads and body parts through the mail boxes
of homes and offices of Labour MPs that voted for air strikes, and threatened their staff with violence.??
No that is disgusting.
Do you support Ken Livingstone condoning these actions, inferring that the MPs deserved these actions.??
I hadn't read this so I had to look it up. What I read was that Livingstone had warned the 66 rebels that they might be deselected. I can't see anything wrong with Constituency Labour Parties being able to choose which candidate they wish to put forward to stand for them at an election. I think this is democracy - not something on which New Labour was very keen.
Do you condone the thousands of Corbyn supporters that are infiltrating the constituence's of Labour MPs that don't agree with Corbyn in order to oust them and get their own people in.??
Sounds like a vague allegation to me. Any reliable evidence for this?
Did you miss the air strike debates and votes. They were quite good but Hilary Benn's was brilliant.
Saw quite a few hours of this at the start but was not watching TV at the end of the debate. There seems to be universal applause for the oratory. I heard that McDonnell thought it was as good as the Blair speech that got us into the Iraq war.
-
On the television this morning there was a discussion about the block voting for labour by ethnic minorities, some who can neither read or speak English. There is also controversy in Bradford between different tribes, some from Kashmir and some from the Punjab. How would this affect the thinking of people representing the labour party at the top?
-
Well it has taken only a few hours for the "dodgy dossier" file to be opened on Cameron's ludicrous claim that there were 70,000 "moderate" rebels ready to provide ground troops to support the aerial war of the so-called "allies" to find that it was made against the advice of MoD officials who told him this figure could not be supported. Never mind, he got the vote he wanted. Just like that other chap over Iraq - what was his name?
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/dec/04/so-david-camerons-70000-syrian-forces-claim-really-is-dodgy (http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/dec/04/so-david-camerons-70000-syrian-forces-claim-really-is-dodgy)
-
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/t31.0-8/s720x720/11227545_10153417758138842_5310136071737261806_o.jpg)
-
I didn't think Benn's speech was all people are saying it was. It was a good speech, no more.
-
Watched the news tonight. The T.V. Cameras were interviewing people in the constituency about their new M.P. One Asian woman was asked did she like him. She said he was a very nice man and she did like him. Then she was asked how do you like Jeremy Corbyn...."Jeremy Corbyn" she said "Who is he ?"
I also think Benn will be the next leader of the Labour Party and sooner rather than later.
-
I also think Benn will be the next leader of the Labour Party and sooner rather than later.
Says a Tory Voter
-
Says a Tory Voter
And the bookies .
-
Yes, as you USB and Nichola do not live in the U.K. you would not know the talk about Hilary Benn who has been mentioned on lots of our T.V. Programmes in the press and on the radio as the next leader of the Labour Party and as H says, our British bookies have him as the favourite to replace Corbyn.
As for me, it would not matter how I voted, I live in an SNP stronghold in Salmond's ex-constituency having said that I find his replacement Eilihd Whiteford likeable and a good M.P. . I wrote to her with a local concern and she acted immediatley and was a great help.
-
And UBT, these people doing all the chattering only have the best interest of the Labour Party at heart. They aren't stirring things to cause trouble - not at all.
-
"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is (intended to be) particularly wounding (or undermining) because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."
Margaret Thatcher
PS we do have electric, running water and the internet and access to news outside of Turkey here...
-
PS we do have electric, running water and the internet and access to news
Don't go boasting. They'll get all these things in Scotland soon, well soon-ish.
-
Back on topic, sort of, penned by Peter Oborne for the Daily Mail
"I believe that only one politician deserves to emerge with an enhanced reputation as a result of the week’s events. That figure is Jeremy Corbyn.
Whether or not you like Mr Corbyn (and I profoundly disagree with many of his policies), there is no denying that he emerged from the arguments over Syria as a man of moral courage, integrity and principle.
Indeed, how interesting that after months of denigrating Corbyn, the Blairite tendency — together with those excitable inhabitants of the Westminster bubble — have been made to look silly in their prediction that Labour would lose the Oldham by-election.
In the real world, it seems the voters have more time for the Labour leader than the metropolitan commentariat. Faced with bitter hostility from his own side on Wednesday, Mr Corbyn stood his ground. Courteously, he set out his honest doubts about the wisdom of bombing raids on Syria. To put his achievement another way, Mr Corbyn performed the role which every leader of the Opposition is expected to perform, according to British constitutional textbooks: he held the Government to account.
Unfortunately, this approach has become very unusual in modern politics just when it is most needed — before our country goes to war. None of the British adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya in recent years produced any gain for our country, to offset the sacrifices made during those conflicts by our soldiers and their families. Quite the contrary — all three turned into disasters. Indeed, Islamic State came into being as a direct consequence of the Iraq invasion, as even Tony Blair grudgingly acknowledged recently.
Crucially, all three of these disasters were strongly supported by British Opposition leaders. In 2003, Iain Duncan Smith failed to ask the right questions ahead of the Iraq invasion. David Cameron failed as Tory leader when Tony Blair dispatched troops to southern Afghanistan in 2006. Ed Miliband was equally remiss over Libya.
At last we have an Opposition leader who does his job by opposing the government and asking the right questions. Throughout the debate, Jeremy Corbyn was calm, resolute and precise — a performance that was especially creditable given that he was subject to vilification from his own Labour MPs.
One of the most disloyal of these was Hilary Benn, whose speech on Wednesday night was not nearly as impressive as reported. Mr Benn showed no comprehension of the complexities of the Syrian civil war. He offered no ideas of his own to contribute to a successful outcome. He is a political mediocrity who has become a convenient stalking horse for the Blairite faction which has been determined to destroy Jeremy Corbyn since he was elected.
-
So - no mention of the hard left Corbynites who have been harassing the Labour MPs - who voted with their own conscience and have been subjected to death threats, called traitors and had to endure all sorts of negative drivel thrown at them?
Strange how this 'new way of doing politics' has turned out to be a load rubbish.
-
There are trouble makers and trolls operating right across the political spectrum; it’s just one side that get all the air time.
What is very clear that the media is obsessed with Jeremy Corbyn who has been repeatedly vilified, and had the most outrageous insults and lies leveled at him, and some people it will suit to believe every disingenuous thing they read or silly stories like how UKIP were going to romp home to victory in Oldham!
And just for the record and fairness of reporting...
Tory MP Lucy Allan has been exposed for adding a death threat to an email and then claiming it was sent to her.
And let’s not forget the tragic case of the 21 year old Tory activist, Elliott Johnson who committed suicide amid allegations of bullying and intimidation, with ex-Tory candidate Mark Clarke at its centre. That story by the way went quietly away.
-
The Tory Daily Mail being quoted! However, this particular Conservative newspaper will obviously want to discredit Hilary Benn, so they will be pleased that Labour supporters have got a hold of this article and are sharing it. The Tory Party would not want to see Benn leading the Labour Party, because, then there would be a good chance of Labour winning the next General Election. They want Labour to keep Corbyn as the leader as most Conservatives do.
-
Why do they (and their media supporters) spend so much time and effort trying to discredit Corbyn, if they want him to stay as leader?
Seems to me he has them rattled.
-
Lets wait and see, but I know where to bet my money. I see even our Eck is now given Corbyn advise.
-
I am curious about how those who are predicting the early replacement of Corbyn with Benn {or whoever} think this is going to happen. Do they expect Benn to defeat Corbyn in a one person/one vote election when Corbyn won the last one with 60% of the vote {and no-one else got to 20%, not bad, that!}? Or do they expect that the Labour Party will change its voting rules in time for a quick new leadership selection? Or are they expecting a parliamentary coup with the Blairites taking over by any means and defying the wishes of Labour Party members?
-
Yesterday the leader of the Fire Brigade Union announced that all Labour MPs will have to accept
Corbyn's new change of direction and new policies or they should resign, or they will be deselected
in their constituency's by Corbyn supporters. The union bully boys are back with their version of democracy.
And it's already begun in Birmingham at Council level.
-
I'll tell Hilary that the fearsome Fire Brigade Union is out to bully her into deselecting our MP if she steps out of line. That will have Hilary shaking in her knee boots; either that or the FBU are in real trouble if they try it.
-
I'll tell Hilary that the fearsome Fire Brigade Union is out to bully her into deselecting our MP if she steps out of line. That will have Hilary shaking in her knee boots; either that or the FBU are in real trouble if they try it.
Hilary is a man ;)
-
Since Hilary is my wife and mother of our two children I think I have a pretty good idea of whether she is a man or not.