Article in Daily Mail

[Rindaloo]

quote:Originally posted by cenk

I couldn't read all. But it is strange that he chosed Fatih region of Istanbul. It is a place that mostly conservative muslims live there for ages, it is not a new thing. He tried to show Turkey is turning to more conservative Islamic country recently. If he went to other parts of Istanbul, he could see totally different views.

In other words "Seek and ye shall find"  Is the Daily Mail the worst for winding things up?  This is a question, not a comment.

[Scunner]

Or in this case "Don't seek if you prefer not to find"

[Rindaloo]

Hmm, yes.  Exactly.

[Sue T]

It is an incredibly complex situation, when Tayyip Erdogan came to power, the educated and perhaps more enlightened section of the population, more heavily represented in the western half of the country, warned of his intent to take Turkey towards being an Islamic state, becuase of his earlier affiliation to to a later banned Islamic party.  They were dismissed as a  paranoid 'ruling elite'.
Now it is interesting to see that others outside of Turkey are finally beginning to question the path along which the AKP is leading the country and the current opposition is questioning the whole morality of his government.
Whilst the Fatih district of Istanbul has long been known for a fundamentalist ruled area it is by no means representative of the city as a whole.  However there is no doubt that the religious dress of women, be it 'turban' or fuller veil is now a much more regularly used political symbol dressed up as 'devout behaviour'.  And there also seems little doubt that that the proper display of religious behaviour - pray 5 times a day - avoid alcohol - have your wife wear the headscarf (properly with no hair showing) makes advances in many parts of the business world that much easier, but there are still far more women in Turkey who do not feel the need to and would never consider the covering of the headscarf to be appropriate.
Meanwhile many intellectuals seriously worry about what is really going on, conspiracy theories abound on both sides, yes the constitution probably needs changing, but does anybody really explain what the proposals going to referendum really mean?
Yes the army probably does need the laws that govern it being changed, I was here in the 1980 coup and in Fethiye it was great to see my friends no longer being subjected to job transfers to crummy places just because they supported the wrong party, but I had no idea that the human rights activists and liberal thinkers in the cities were incarcerated as supposed public enemies. And yet, despite the unhelpful road that coup set Turkey upon, there are still sentimental longings that another military coup will rid Turkey of the current perceived threat of Islam damaging the democracy, that fortunately is now an extremely remote possibility - I mean the coup.
I think there are genuine concerns for Turkey's future as its politics remain so polemic and so opposing and they do nothing to remove the untouchability of politicians. And many of the educated decent Turks who I know, doctors from other cities, university lecturers etc seriously think that many members of the current government would/will end up in prison if ever they could be tried for what they are doing to the country.
However it could be worse, it could be more like the USA!

[Colwyn]

Interesting reflections. Thank you.

[Sue T]

Islamicisation of Turkey? a personal and local experience/reflection.

I came to live in Fethiye in 1977 as the English bride of a local man.  Islam was very much woven into the fabric of life, but never - except by the odd stranger - was I ever asked about my religious beliefs or expected to practise Islam myself.  As it was very much part of the culture for folk to fast during Ramazan, those who did were duly respected and cared for and those who did not were equally tolerated in their choice.  the Islamic principle that your behaviour is a personal matter between your god and yourself certainly prevailed.  The town was then small enough for most people to know each other and they were all predominantly locals.  At the festival of sacrifice animals which had been kept by the house were respectfully, quietly and cleanly dispatched by men experienced to carry the process out, there was no central locality where for 'health and safety' reasons mass slaughter was performed.
Matrons were generally accustomed to wearing headscarfs when walking through the streets, but there was no fuss about whether a hair showed or not and young women rarely had their heads covered.  The 'Turban' had not arrived in Fethiye and the Burka or whatever form of full black veil probably rarely existed in Turkey, it was and still is, as far as I know,  an illegal form of dress.
Whilst not part of a legal marriage couple who wanted to add a religious aspect to their union did so usually privatly, otherwise 'marriage' by an Imam was a convenient way to legitimise a 'convenient' relationship
Yes Fethiye was delightfully Islamic and tolerant and with a great deal of respect for 'the other' it was probably representative of much of the country, well at least the Western half.  Islam was not allowed to mix in politics hence the closure of any parties that showed too strong Islamic tendancies, a fate avoided by the AKP not so many years ago.
It seems to me that Islam has become politicised, not Turkey made more Islamic.