Author Topic: Military Chiefs Resign En Masse  (Read 8207 times)

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Offline Firo

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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2011, 17:28:05 PM »
Great analogy Scunner....

Offline Ovacikpeedoff

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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2011, 19:00:09 PM »
Scunner, sorry but I totally disagree with you on this. The AK party is the elected party and has the mandate to do what it thinks is best for Turkey. Military coups in Turkey had no legal validity and only happened when the military decided it did not like what the government was doing. What would you think if we elected a left wing government in the UK and the military took power because it did not like the policies that it wants to persue. The government is elected by the people. The AK party has not made any attempt to hide its leanings towards theIslamic world. The actions it has taken regarding the sale of drink and the wearing of the burka are examples of the way they think. The people of Turkey voted for this.

Turkey is a democracy and not a tin pot military dictatorship.It is also a member of the G20 as one of the biggest economies in the world.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 19:02:58 PM by Ovacikpeedoff »

Offline Scunner

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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2011, 19:17:10 PM »
So, what did I say that you disagree with?

Offline Ovacikpeedoff

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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2011, 21:43:13 PM »
The military should not be the so called brake. The military are thereto serve the government in power and not to dictate policy.The brake in any country has got to be the ballot box.

Offline Scunner

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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2011, 21:48:42 PM »
No I agree with you - my analogy was an attempt to paint simply the situation as was in Turkey. The military was the brakes, not that the military should be the brakes.

Offline Ovacikpeedoff

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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2011, 22:18:36 PM »
The way you put it is correct in the way that the country was run. They have had 3 military coups and one nearly coup in the past 50 years. Some of the demands of the military like a minimum of 8 years schooling were right. Others such a banning the wearing of the head scarf at uniis,in my opinion,an attack on human rights.

Sometimes,I do think that Ex pats do over react to what the government is doing. The banning of the sale of alcohol is totally consistent with muslim beliefs.The government has not been totally stupid and recognised its importance to tourism so the ban in no way impacts on Fethiye. The wearing ofthe head scarf is a basic human right.If the Koran was strictly applied the Britsh tourist would not be able to wander around the way that they do. Some of the tourists I saw when we lived in Turkey would make you wish for strict enforce of the Koran.

The problem with Islam and for that matter almost all religons is that there are fundementalist sects that create fear and terror. Suicide bombers and the like should not be seen as the stereotype muslim.

Apologies if I have gone a little off topic.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 22:21:14 PM by Ovacikpeedoff »

Offline nichola

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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2011, 22:22:47 PM »
Actually the AKP had 50% of the votes which gives it a mixed mandate because 50% of the people did not vote for them. True democracy aims to build consensus and takes account of all views in decision making processes.

The AKP wanted to railroad through changes to the constitution one of which would have allowed PM Erdogan to become the President in a newly defined role that would allow him to continue to dominate and influence Turkish politics. Under the current system he can not run again. It is a good thing that the AKP did not win a constitutional majority but having locked up key opponents they continue to obstruct the right of uncharged but elected Members of Parliament to take up their rightful positions to Government posts they were elected too by the people and weakens the legitimate opposition.

The main reason the AKP is so popular is because for many years prior to their election there was a long period of instability in Turkey. The AKP have done many good things for the people of Turkey, a stable government is important for Turkish people, inflation and interest rates are down and they have an impressive approach to foreign policy. That said the economy is overheating, Turkeys credit rating took a knock recently, the Kurdish issue and now unrest in Syria on its doorstop.

The military traditionally were considered the upholders of the constitution and the protectors of a secular state. They intervened if the constitution was being flouted or abused.

The questions to ask is why if they are so popular are so many members of the opposition, the judiciary, academics, lawyers, senior members of the armed forces locked up on trumped, unproven charges for years and years. Have you any idea how many journalists have been murdered in Turkey this year alone? And why have they weakened the power and diluted the independence of the judiciary which is crucial in any democracy.

In the Middle East we have all observed how the people's popular uprisings against people who had/have absolute power have used the internet to organise and tell the rest of the world what is going on.
 
Isn't it a little bit suspicious that the AKP intends to censor what people can access on the internet? Thirteen thousand web sites are already blocked but secret lists are being drawn up and in a few weeks time we will all have an imposed filter system that will restricted the right to access information on the internet.

Absolute power is never a good thing and mandate or no mandate marginalising 50% of the population will not lead to continued stability in the long term and will be detrimental to the role in the world of such an important and strategically placed country. Democracy in any country is not determined by the ballot box it is determined by the active and meaningful participation of the people in all levels of decision making that affects their lives.

Offline Scunner

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« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2011, 22:35:23 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by Ovacikpeedoff

Sometimes,I do think that Ex pats do over react to what the government is doing.


Yes and almost definitely more than they/we did about those folks in Westminster when previously living in the UK - but it is natural to wonder what is going to come and demolish one's new found dream life.

Islam, and to the point a more fundemental Islamic Government is not  "what happened in Iran", it can be what happens in Dubai, and they've shifted a few properties and accommodated an expat or two over the years  8)

Offline peecee

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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2011, 09:24:13 AM »
Totally agree with Nichola

Offline Ian

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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2011, 10:30:13 AM »
What an excellent post by Nichola

I personally think she has got it spot on as well  :)





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