Hello everyone,
I have tried very hard to simply follow the debate on this subject, without getting involved, but needless to say eventually it has got the better of me!
Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their contributions, it is comforting to be able to come here for information,even if currently it is all still very uncertain.
There appears to be wide ranging opinions regarding this health care issue, some of which I agree with and some I dont, as I am sure we all do.
I would like to start by relating something interesting that I heard over the weekend. I was watching the Doha debate on BBC Entertainment, the debate came from Istanbul, and the subject of the debate was about Turkey itself. During the debate, the chairman was questioning one of the panel, and he said, I assume with some knowledge, that quote," of the working population of Turkey, less than 4% actually pay income tax" Now, if that is the case, I feel it would be reasonable to assume, that if more than 96% of the working population dont pay tax, then they wont be paying health insurance either?
We all know that historically it has been difficult for the Turkish Government to raise money via direct taxation, hence the indirect taxes on goods and services is so high. So, I would suggest that the Health care system, along with most things in Turkey, is funded in this way. Therefore the vast majority of Turkish citizens pay for Health care via this method, including us Ex Pats, and yet we are being forced to pay again.
Maybe this push to get everyone registered is in some way an attempt to get all the Turkish working population into a system, so they can no longer avoid paying direct taxes?
Moving onto the confusion about the requirements of registering/applying for health care. earlier in the debate, much mention was made of 12 months UNINTERRUPTED residency, and maybe the key to this may lie in the interpretation of "uninterrupted"?
For example, if someone not residing in Turkey, lets call them a tourist, has, despite the fact that they dont spend much time here in Turkey, opted to pay for a residents permit instead of going the visa route, for whatever reason, it is being suggested that as they have a residents permit for more than one year, they will have to pay the approx figure of £100 per month for Turkish Health care.
It has also been stated that you have to produce a certificate from the UK stating that you are no longer entitled to NHS treatment, this they will not be able to do, as they are in fact still entitled.
Now, the idea that what are essentially tourists coming to Turkey will have to pay for this Health care is quite simply ludicrous, even for Turkey!!
So, do we assume then that 1 year uninterrupted does NOT in fact apply simply to the length of the residents permit held? If so, what does uninterrupted mean? Could it mean that you have to have spent 1 year uninterrupted actually living in the country? If so, then that would negate the "tourist" issue, but then begs the question, if you do live in Turkey, but return to the UK for a few weeks each year, does that mean your not uninterrupted either??
I also find it very strange that we are being asked to prove we are no longer entitled to UK NHS treatment to qualify for the Turkish scheme? Why? Does anyone really think the Turkish Government could care less, as long as you are paying them the £100 per month?? I suspect there could well another motive at work here, driven by the UK government to identify Expats who are still claiming to be in the UK, an issue that I dont want to get into in this debate. Yes, there is no doubt that many Expats in Turkey, and other countries do try and appear to be living in the UK still, and argue that they are simply claiming what they have paid for all their working lives, rightly or wrongly. However, before we all get excited about that, I am sure there are many of you living in the UK with property in Turkey which is rented and for which no tax is being paid to either the Turkish or UK Governments, so lets not go there.
Quite simply, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the option of paying for Turkish health care, that suited everyone. It is not as though we are, or have been, getting something for nothing, and are now being asked to pay for it. Many of the Expats have never visited a Turkish Government hospital, and have always gone private, on the so called " Pay as you go" basis, and no, the private hospitals in Fethiye, such as the ESNAF are most certainly not kept going by the Expats, we would probably be outnumbered by 100/1 by Turkish patients, which perhaps tells you something about the Government hospitals, I dont know?
Yes that does mean the private hospitals are being subsidised in some way by the Government health scheme, as they get a discount, but I also suspect that when we go we pay more than a Turkish patient to reflect this, I may be wrong?
I do not actually know the answer to this one, but a foreign national, Turkish or otherwise, living in the UK, who is financially self sufficient, so not working, are they expect to pay National Insurance contributions?? I doubt it.
Also, it is my understanding that the money that is paid by the Turkish into this scheme, also entitles them to an old age pension, something that almost certainly we will not be entitled to.
Now, rightly or wrongly, there are people living in Turkey on small incomes, they moved here because they could attain a better standard of living due to the cheaper prices that prevailed at one time, not sure that is necessarily true today, but again lets leave that one for another time. The reality is that many people simply will not be able to afford this extra expense, especially those couples living together but not married. Many more, probably myself included, will have to trim the budget in other areas to pay this additional cost, so the net result will be that the local economy will lose out on the £100 a month I used to spend elsewhere. I am not trying to suggest that the world will stop spinning because of that, but there will be some sort of impact.
Finally, yes of course we were all pleased that the cost of residency came down, but lets be honest, with was a huge disparity between the cost of visa's and residency, and yes I understand there was the issue of reciprocal costs in the UK, but I see nothing reciprocal about the health care costs.
So, thats a few of my thoughts, which I am sure many will disagree with, which is fine, we are all entitled to our own opinions.
Lets just hope that this situation is sorted out very soon, one way or the other, so we all know where we stand, and life can settled down again, until the next time, because there is always something!
Incidentally, anyone know how often they would fine you for not joining the scheme? Could be the cheaper option!LOL
Regards,
Gordon
