Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
Calis Beach Forum => Calis Beach Questions and Information => Topic started by: ytokgoz on January 08, 2013, 13:43:39 PM
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Just in case you still haven't had any will this is the latest post i have put on my website, and you can read it below; is your will ready?let me know your thoughts
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With a view to eventually joining the European Union, the Turkish legal system has now been integrated with the continental European system incorporating elements from the Swiss, German, French and Italian codes, however expats living in Turkey do need to be aware of the differences in inheritance law, as do those who purchase immovable property in the country.
The main principle regarding property is that the property is regulated by the laws of the country in which it is located. This means that if you own property in Turkey, Turkish law is the applicable law when it comes to you shuffling off this mortal coil. And you might be a little surprised to learn that the laws of succession in Turkey differ significantly from our own in the UK.
If you die without having made a will and you are married, then your Turkish property will be split up along the following lines:- if the property was in joint names your spouse will retain 50% of the property. The first statutory heirs are any children of the deceased and they would receive the other half of the property. If there are no children, then the parents of the deceased and their offspring i.e. brothers and sisters of the deceased, would receive the estate. If the parents are dead then the grandparents and their offspring are the statutory heirs.
So, if you and your spouse buy a property and put it in joint names, the best that can happen is that your spouse gets 50% of the house when you die. The other 50% could be divided multiple ways and force the sale of the property in which your poor bereaved partner was hoping to remain living. Not ideal really.
If the spouse is included with the children in sharing an inheritance then they have a statutory share of 25%, if they are sharing with the parents that moves up to 50% and if they are sharing with the grandparents 75% of the estate will be theirs. If the deceased has no surviving next of kin then the spouse receives everything and if there are no surviving heirs then the government gets to keep your property in Turkey.
So basically you need to draw up a will in the form specified by the Turkish Civil Code if you want to bequeath a property in Turkey, as a foreign will which does not comply with Turkish law may be invalid. In order to make a will in Turkey you need to be of sound mind and over 15 years of age, and wills disposing of property in Turkey can be made on an official form, handwritten or orally before a public notary or a Justice of the Peace. A holograph is then written in the testators’ handwriting and given to a court or public notary for safe keeping.
Be aware as well that if you have decided to give your Turkish property to your secretary or gardener and not your spouse before you die and the dispositions exceed the reserved portions in the Turkish Civil code, then it is likely that your dispositions will be reduced.
Children can inherit property in Turkey while both parents are alive, provided the parents are married and the parents or an appointed third party can then manage the property. As you can tell, the rules and laws are complex and favour the protection of the extended family. To that end we would say two things, firstly you have to have a will if you’re thinking about moving to Turkey or buying a Turkish property, and secondly as an expat or someone who holds assets in more than one country you need to make sure that your will covers all jurisdictions"
to acces to more post please visit http://propertyandturkey.com (http://propertyandturkey.com)
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Can you explaın what happens ıf the owners of the property are not marrıed. As I belıeve beıng unmarrıed causes all sorts of problems wıth ınherıtance laws.
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hi quackers ,
i am not a professional about turkish law, but you can ask this to the solicitor on our page for free and i would really appreciate if you can share the answer here.
http://www.propertyandturkey.com/ask-turkish-solicitor.php (http://www.propertyandturkey.com/ask-turkish-solicitor.php)
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Ytokgoz,Please don't go down this route of printing absolute rubbish that is only there to line the pockets of Turkish Lawyers, and lead potential buyer into a false sense of security. This article is absolute 'codswallop' and it is about time that the legal professions tell the truth instead of extorting hundreds of pounds from 'blinkered' clients. There are many many more guaranteed and cheaper ways of ensuring your property goes to those intended. What this article does not inform the people it is aimed at is the cost of executing the will, it should be written to expect little or no change from £5,000 nor the fact that it can take years and years of heartache. As for Turkey joining the European Union, hell will freeze over first.
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wo ho ho loz, calm down. first of all i dont know what you are intendingor trying to achieve by dropping the level of conversation but i will not drop my quality by replying your insult "rubbish" .in turkey bad words belongs to the owner .
secondly i havent realized you have studied or have vast knowledge about Turkish law, so i would really appreciate if you can share your turkish law knowledge with us .
Or could you please teach us the "There are many many more guaranteed and cheaper ways of ensuring your property goes to those intended" ? I really would like to learn the ways please and i am sure others would like to learn it.
I guess you have no idea about what you are talking because £5000 for a will is stupid price not only for turkey also for uk.
an average basic will at notary would cost you approx 280£ plus you need two turkish citizens to witness, (the figure is about 2 years old so anybody had recent will can update it), also i paid about 400 pounds for my uk will to a uk solicitor.
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Read EVERY posting I have made on this subject, then return and ask if I know what I am talking about. before replying please read.
http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/calis_beach_questions_and_information/wills_again_26577.msg94888.html#msg94888 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/calis_beach_questions_and_information/wills_again_26577.msg94888.html#msg94888) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/buying_property_calis_beach_fethiye_and_turkey/shared_ownership_buying_friends_39655.msg207213.html#msg207213 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/buying_property_calis_beach_fethiye_and_turkey/shared_ownership_buying_friends_39655.msg207213.html#msg207213) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/expat_property_owners_q_and_a_forum/actioning_will_turkey_ensure_you_are_aware_21169.0.html (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/expat_property_owners_q_and_a_forum/actioning_will_turkey_ensure_you_are_aware_21169.0.html) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/calis_beach_questions_and_information/everything_legal_41420.msg223320.html#msg223320 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/calis_beach_questions_and_information/everything_legal_41420.msg223320.html#msg223320) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/turkish_will_43642.0.html (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/turkish_will_43642.0.html) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/health_healthcare/consular_petition._43415.0.html (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/health_healthcare/consular_petition._43415.0.html) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/moving_to_turkey/interesting_article_making_turkish_will_44866.msg256132.html#msg256132 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/moving_to_turkey/interesting_article_making_turkish_will_44866.msg256132.html#msg256132) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/brits_turkey_have_your_voice_heard_45961.msg267139.html#msg267139 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/brits_turkey_have_your_voice_heard_45961.msg267139.html#msg267139) http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/turkish_wills_again_45962.msg267104.html#msg267104 (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/turkish_wills_again_45962.msg267104.html#msg267104)
http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/expat_property_owners_q_and_a_forum/power_attorney_45285.0.html (http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/expat_property_owners_q_and_a_forum/power_attorney_45285.0.html)
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I'm really looking forward to reading this thread this evening.
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loz , you are directing people in the wrong direction in below;
instead of will some one asked about power of attorney?
and your answer is ;
"This is the very same thing that I have been telling people to do for years, I asked the Turkish lawyer this question and yes it is not legal,she did say clever though. It would work as long as it was quck and you did not wish to holiday in Turkey again. After the Turkish Will waste of money this is is the only angle to come up with, "
The power of attorney is valid till you die, so when you die your power of attorney is not valid plus you are recommending people to break the law by using power of attorney of someone dead!!!!!
Not so clever loz, I would not recommend it to any one , at least not in public.
I didnt bother reading the rest of your comments as on the first post i read you star giving wrong information.
To all who has been reading this post;
whether you have will or not, you should seek legal advice individually from couple of different sources as I am not professional about turkish law, and i dont claim that i know everything about turkish law like loz and recommend people to break the law.
so as you are all adults; seek professional advice individually and make your own decision
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http://calis-beach.co.uk/forum/turkey_discussion_forum_not_calis_specifically/turkish_wills_again_45962.msg267104.html#msg267104
This is an interesting post/thread, by Loz, for you to comment on.
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I'm with H here, and now looking forward to round 2 .......... seconds out ;)
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hi eric,
exactly which part of the post would you like me to comment on, could you please be clearer?
as in my previous post it says you are all adults and you should seek professional advice from different resources, you can not expect the same rules to be in turkey, so you need to learn the new/different rules of every country.
for this reason i can recommend an independent(not tied to any developer or agent in the area) solicitor in uk.
here is the link and free to ask any question you have in mind.
http://www.propertyandturkey.com/ask-turkish-solicitor.php (http://www.propertyandturkey.com/ask-turkish-solicitor.php)
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You have obviously not read all the other post.
No one is saying don't seek legal advice, just ensure all the fact are there at the beginning and what will happen should the property owners request executing a Will in Turkey.
The costs,
The Will approx £300 each in Turkey.
when a named UK citizen) person dies
cost of a lawyer, cost to the judge to open the Will, the cost of UK lawyer to swear Allegiance and draw up Afidavits, cost of Apostile certificates, cost of returning to court, then the cost of Uk lawyer to ratify to Turkish courts the information for the Will. Notary Fees, Sworn Translator fee. inheritance fees to the Tax office, these are 2 tier depending if a Will or no Will, if a Will is involved then the cost can be 10% of the price of the property. Then the Tapu manager will agree to transfer the Tapu to the named beneficiaries.
The list is endless. I am still awaiting the blog/script/article written by a lawyer confirming the cost involved, I doubt they would dare write the truth, it would scare off clients:
Also, £5,000 I quoted could have been much more if the Tax office were not on the ball that day.
I have just looked at your site regarding the lawyer, tonight I will write to him, and ask him for a point to point direct procedure and costings.
We have a pub in Southampton, it is called the Honest Lawyer, the owner purchased the pub and changed the name, he wanted the world to have at least one honest lawyer!
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so what is your point than?
turkish will is for turkey, so dont bother adding things in uk, for uk stuff make uk will,
it would cut down most of the cost
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The Lawyers should add to their articles that it could take years, and so much heart ache, Why write a Will if £300 per person when the Country, in this case Turkey will only provide immovable goods to THEIR law.
And before you even point the finger at me for being dishonest, look to your own countrymen, When a family member dies who is the named person that runs to the bank to empty it before the money can be controlled by courts/lawyer and other members of the family that the deceased did not want their cash to go to.
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i am so sorry from all people reading this but i have to say it loz , you are full of b.....hit .
You are just a racist £$@***.Why?
"And before you even point the finger at me for being dishonest, look to your own countrymen,"
No i will not look at my country man nor any other country man, because i don't care what religion, race, color, or sex they are if somebody is wrong , it means they are wrong. Who ever done something bad should be punished even in turkey or England or any other part of the world. I can tell you have got bad experience in Turkey but i will not let you stereotype all Turks the same or making racist comments here.
Well i will point you the finger and you have to admit that the so called the advice you have given about use power of attorney instead of will is wrong and you should admit it , for all those reading this please ask your solicitor if the power of attorney is legal and valid after you die?
Just stop it loz, i know you are upset and possibly ripped of but it is not me cause the quietness or ripped you off
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(http://www.calis-beach.co.uk/ts2.gif)
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sincere apologies to Loz and Ytokgoz but omg Scunner that has just cracked me up :) i cant comment on the thread as in the words of Manwell I know nothing :)
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i m the blue one
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omg Scunner that has just cracked me up :)
I will make it my image for CBF fights from now on :D
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Trust me Loz know EXACTLY what she is talking about and just for the record she hasnt been ripped off...She is definatley NOT a racist..
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and mercury you trust me i know what i am talking about and i recommend you to dea lwith a solicitor not follow what loz says or you might be so surprised
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so what is your point than?
turkish will is for turkey, so dont bother adding things in uk, for uk stuff make uk will,
it would cut down most of the cost
I think this is the point Loz is making;
"The costs,
The Will approx £300 each in Turkey.
when a named UK citizen) person dies
cost of a lawyer, cost to the judge to open the Will, the cost of UK lawyer to swear Allegiance and draw up Afidavits, cost of Apostile certificates, cost of returning to court, then the cost of Uk lawyer to ratify to Turkish courts the information for the Will. Notary Fees, Sworn Translator fee. inheritance fees to the Tax office, these are 2 tier depending if a Will or no Will, if a Will is involved then the cost can be 10% of the price of the property. Then the Tapu manager will agree to transfer the Tapu to the named beneficiaries."
This and a lot more is required to action the Turkish will on Turkish assets. Even after all of this the Turkish Judge may over rule the will.
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Am on the edge of me seat here
Come on Loz where are you girl?
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Maybe Ytokgoz is helping all us forum members out of the goodness of his heart or maybe he is just plugging his own property pages who knows? but I object to having a friend of mine insulted in this way. I would rather take the word of Loz and 3 of my friends who have gone through the Turkish will system and struggled with bereavment at the same time...2 of whom would never have made a will if they had known the stress it caused them.
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He is ignorant of the facts, so I have posed a FREE question to the lawyer asking for conformation of cost and steps taken. if they return a reply, and I am not holding my breath, Like all lawyers unless there could be something at the end of it for them why should they give an answer?
To answer in an affirmative to my quotes and questions would mean many Turkish Lawyer could lose client in turn equals lose of payment.
We all know the extortionate cost of writing a Will, all I am asking is that a lawyer confirms upfront how much it is going to cost to Execute the Will.
Lets all wait and see.
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Its just my friend a downpayment of 4000TL to activate the will and have the judge open the case...That was a "downpayment"
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sorry Mercury posted at the same time.
Thank you for you ALL for the posts of confidence in me.
Yet I must stress that I am not by any stretch of the imagination a professional legal person, I have the added advantage of time on my hands and used it to talk to Advukats (Lawers/Solicitors), Notaries and others in the legal professions to gain my answers. It was something that was at the time personal to us as a family, and finding that the true cost of executing the Will, not to mention the heartache and stress at a time when not needed.
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dear mercury;
"Maybe Ytokgoz is helping all us forum members out of the goodness of his heart or maybe he is just plugging his own property pages who knows? but I object to having a friend of mine insulted in this way. "
I have every intention of my advertising my property pages yes it is true; do ı earn money from it no! if you read the about us bit you can get more details why i have done it.
Insulting? your friend (loz) is insulting her self by being racist and stereotyping.
so loz what is the legal, cheap and efficient way of sorting the wills in turkey? as 80 sth years old turkish government and her solicitors has no idea, i would like to listen from you as in your earlier post you said there are soe many other ways .
can you please list 3 of the ways you know? it would be beneficial to all.
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i just can not get my mind over that a expat is recommending sth not legal and others agreeing to do illegal things. it is just as all the tourists coming to turkey and not using helmet or seat belt as turkish people dont do it . you should do what legal and right is for you , not to wear helmet or seat belt because turks dont do it either is wrong.
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Stop there! This is about Wills, should you wish to start on the Helmets and Seat Belts and how your countrymen operate then start another thread.
The point that you have jumped on has been taken out of context because you have not read everything on the matter, you have been blinkered into reading a conversation between me and a Lawyer, she has since said that it can be done by this way that is mentioned but needs looking into further. Unfortunately, the thread containing this information is on the 'old' forum and will take some searching.
But as for the £5000 cost to have the name changed to that of the surviving spouse is correct, ok it maybe approximate and is probably much more in reality.
How much is it to execute a UK Will? Nowhere near that much.
Yet please point me in the direction of a blog/article where the Lawyer is telling the truth to the cost to UK citizens for executing their Turkish Will.
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Without wishing to detract from the discussion, can I just ask ytokgoz "who wrote the content of your first post"
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without changing the subject loz, when are you going to write cheap ways of having a will, as you do know lots.
and stop talking about this your countryman my country man crap , because it is really so childish. i said again it is not my country man, people do wrong things everywhere. dont you watch watchdog ? dont you read your local news? in knife crime london is more dangerous than baghdad so do ı say look at your people , they are all criminals?
i can not believe that you are so arrogant that dont accept you have been giving wrong ideas to people. can you just write down 3 legals ways instead of will please. also as i live in uk now can you give me some advice on how to beat the uk system as i believe you know it very well.
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Can I please ask a question that I'm sure applies to many people owning a property here, I will use my own circumstances but I'm sure similarities will apply to others ;
We don't have a Turkish will, our bank accounts here are joint and upon the death of either one of us, the other has the opportunity to dictate our banked finances.
The property is in my name only, we have no plans to sell our property but leave it to our children, who we believe are very close and will be able to cope with any dictate imposed by the Turkish inheritance system. We also have some checks and balances contained within our UK will to take account of any diversions from our wishes on what we would like to see happen here.
So lets assume that I die first and as my wife's name is not the one on the Tapu, does that mean she can't live here anymore? I know our children wouldn't kick her out. Once she dies, wouldn't the property here, in effect still be in the hands of my children?
If so, it's what we would have written in our will?
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Go away and grow up.
Read the links that I posted, you will get your reply, and the probable legalities. I await confirmation from a lawyer.
The drivel that you first posted is deceiving in every conceivable way possible, leading clients into a false impression of all will be resolved on the death of your loved one, the process can't be any further from the truth.
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just to save all the people reading lots of "your rubbish" as you like using that word , why dont you just summarize it here? or you have got nothing to say? do you even know and realise what you are recommending? or do you know what you are doing and/ or are you legally and mentally capable of giving people advice? what ever ....
rimms, your wife will get 1/4 of the assets and your children(or child) will get 3/4 of the assets.(it doesnt matter how many children you have got)
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We were going to get Turkish wills a couple of years ago after getting lots of advice from friends, professionals and fellow property owners we decided to save our £800+.
It comes up as a regular question every year on the forum and I think there is a resounding 'save your money' response.
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My name is not on our Tapu, my husband has children by a previous relationship, does that mean I get naf all???
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Shamless2;
i am not professional about it but as long as you are married you still have a min 1/4 share , but i might be mistaken, please consult a solicitor for expert advice .
or you can always ask loz as she know everything,
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If we've not sold in a few years time our plan is to 'sell' our apartment to our son and daughter.
I'd rather pay the commission than take the chance of them having the five plus years of heartache that Vera has suffered.
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exactly anne, that is the best efficient way of doing it , just approx 3% - 4% of the value of the house and thats it. everything is done in one day
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Shamless2;
i am not professional about it but as long as you are married you still have a min 1/4 share , but i might be mistaken, please consult a solicitor for expert advice .
or you can always ask loz as she know everything,
to be honest I think I would rather go the legal route, law is law, what ever country you are I, imagine how upset we would be if a immigrant decided to change the law to suit themselves in GB (not that it doesn't already happen) but we would be pretty p|$$ed if they did.
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phew....im exhusted...im sure thats not the end of it..!!!!
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WELL. What can I say?
I’m shocked at some of the attitudes on this forum. If this kind of unpleasantness continues I may have to reconsider my membership.
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is that your only contribution
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oops another predictable response !
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Is it the freedom of speech here, and the ability for two adults to hold a discussion and even disagree that you object to? Maybe you think I should have deleted the topic, and kept the forum nice and bland :D
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I may have to reconsider my membership.
Sorry Kirky old boy, no need as I have reconsidered your membership for you.
One thing I have learned in 10 years of doing this is that no good will come from someone who comes here just to criticise. You have contributed nothing positive and only post to say how much you don't like it. Now you don't need to come.
One very sad man.
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Anyone got any opinions on wills? :D
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Or Harry?
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With respect to both the main contributors to this thread, yes - both fine fellows in my opinion.
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My neighbour wanted to leave hıs property to hıs son although he has 4 chıldren. He went to a turkısh lawyer who ınformed hım that although he wanted to do thıs hıs other chıldren have a rıght to contest hıs wıll and upon hıs death ın turkısh law they wıll probably be entıtled to a share. Any ensuıng court contest between the chıldren could cost a lot of money. Sımple answer was to sell the property to hıs son .
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rimms, your wife will get 1/4 of the assets and your children(or child) will get 3/4 of the assets.(it doesnt matter how many children you have got)
Great Stuff, I don't need to worry about a will then.
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If I am reading this right (from now on referred to as the Rimms approach ;D ) - when I die first (statistics will support this) Gill retains her half of the property - the other half is split between our children and she maybe gets a small share of that half.
Because we love and trust them they were going to get it anyway - so they let her do what she wants at that point - keep it or sell it and divide the proceeds as she requires at that time (if she needs the money our children will recognise that - or be left out of her UK will ;D)
So if we let the law take it's course in Turkey and we have not made a Turkish will - how much would it cost to arrive at the above - i.e the tapu is changed - as I can't believe that majority of Turkish people have made wills or have thousands of lira to sort it out.
Sent from my ARCHOS 80 COBALT using Tapatalk 2
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The majority of Turkish people I know only rent.
I wish I had thought seriously about this before buying as my kids live in the far corners of the world and have no wish to come to Turkey and wouldn't even bother to come to sort out the legalities. We plan to sell up before we pop!
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That's all well and good and works well if you pop at the correct time :)
"Selling" to your children is a decent option but not cheap. Property purchase tax (4%) will be due and there's little underdeclaring of value now - so if your apartment (for example) sells for £50,000 you will pay 4% of that in tax, not on 20,000 lira or something silly (like the good old days ;) )
The other thing to bear in mind is you effectively are both parties - buyer and seller - so don't do it in the first five years as you (the seller this time) will owe capital gains tax on any profit. That could be quite small, but say your tapu does say 20,000 TL and the new tapu for your children says £50,000 (140,000 TLish) then you will be taxed on the lion's share of the difference, less a bit of allowance - and 25% of 120,000 TL will work out as a CGT of over TEN THOUSAND POUNDS on a 'paper' capital gain of over £40,0000!!!
I hope the figures made sense. In short, just make sure you own it for five years minimum before changing ownership.
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sincere apologies to Loz and Ytokgoz but omg Scunner that has just cracked me up :) i cant comment on the thread as in the words of Manwell I know nothing :)
And he came from barcleona!
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Yeah if only we had a crystal ball!
Only problem is my children don't want it, they will never ever use it.
They wouldn't even bother coming to Turkey to sort it out.
( one in Brazil the other in Australia)
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I am still waiting a reply from the lawyers confirming a few facts, but in the meanwhile; Your children inherit under the Turkish Law senario, all well and good, however, they are not Turkish Citizens so will have to produce Apostile Cerficates of Birth to confirm to the justice system who they are and if they are entitled. This again is a long drawn out system and will have to pay lawyers and Peace Court fees, then cross your fingers that the ruling Judge and others are satisfied with the documents supplied.
And remember to register the death with the Tax office so that you are not fined further down the road.
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Seems to me the best thing is to enjoy it for as long as you can then sell up
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so what is your point than?
turkish will is for turkey, so dont bother adding things in uk, for uk stuff make uk will,
it would cut down most of the cost
A Will under UK law is 'Your Last Will & Testament'
Does anybody know if; a person makes another Will in Turkey, does this invalidate any Will previously sworn in the UK?
Ytokgoz, you've no doubt provided much entertainment for many looking at this thread but, I don't think you're doing yourself, or your business any favours by the tone you've taken & language you've used towards a very respected member who has done more to help people in this area than 'Any' lawyer could/would & for free! :(
You seem astounded that 'some' Turks may well have rushed off to empty bank accounts on the demise of a loved one (or not)! I agree that 'us' Yanbanci's have to learn 'how to' in Turkey, & thank God for people like Loz who have in this paricular area.
Come on, get real! most of us are now 'seasoned' in Turkey & have grasped the gist of it, mostly through our own experiences or through other's who had to travel along different routes, as did Loz in this case for a friend who desperately needed help.
By the by, "Power of Attorney's" are Not for life, you can & should in most situations add a time limit to it's validity!
Even I have picked up a morsel or 2 about Turkish Law!
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Well articulated Cef - you've written what most of us are thinking I would surmise. The Turkish Lawyer that I used for my property purchase still has POA over my Turkish bank acount, I couldn't be bothered to cancel it I just took everything out except a fiver - if he's so inclined he can have it. From what I've gathered (thanks mostly to Loz and Ytokgoz) the best plan is to sell my place to the kids (the 5 year milestone had just passed). I'll have to lend them the money to buy it and it's going to cost me 3-4% of the selling price in tax but that's money well spent in my book if it avoids the pitfalls and heartaches that we have all read about here on CBF and other places.
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Seems to me the best thing is to enjoy it for as long as you can then sell up
Yes I think so - sell up and give your kids the money. They may (as already mentioned in the topic) not want a property in Turkey. Then witness them wasting it all, while you are still around to see it ;)
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So if the kids don't want it, sod them. I would expect your main worry is about the surviving partner. If they are allowed to either keep living in the home or sell it (with the kids consent) which shouldn't be a problem if they aren't bothered. What's all the fuss about? Worrying about the property after both parties are dead seems a bit of wasted effort as far as I'm concerned.
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When one of us dies, the other will clean out the joint account and open a new account in their name only.
If you don't tell anyone your partner has died, how will they find out. The only time it should come up is if you want to sell your property. Or am I being naive.
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It coming up when you want to sell your property is a fairly important time for it to come up.
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Now I'm not sure this is an answer to this question on wills. However, my good mate Mick tells me - and he knows about these things - that YOU CAN actually take your money with you! If you can't quite grasp this revelation it relates to taking your money with you to heaven. Although he couldn't say about the other place though, but given his record here on earth, he is taking no risks and he is looking into it. I'm going to ask him about taking immovable items with you as well as cash. I'll let you all know his answer ;) ;)
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I knew a man who wanted to take all his money with him when he died. His wife agreed to the request and wrote out a cheque and put it in his coffin with him. : :) ;) :D
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After reading this thread, glad we sold up and now rent. When my daughter comes out in the summer I think we will open two bank accounts for a minimum amount, one in her name and mine and one in her name and hubbys, either signature to operate, so when one of us dies the survivor can transfer the money into the new account and when the last one of us pops our clogs she will be able to get hold of the dosh.
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After reading this thread, glad we sold up and now rent. When my daughter comes out in the summer I think we will open two bank accounts for a minimum amount, one in her name and mine and one in her name and hubbys, either signature to operate, so when one of us dies the survivor can transfer the money into the new account and when the last one of us pops our clogs she will be able to get hold of the dosh.
Seems a nice simple idea that would work, although remember your daughter will need to get a tax number to open the bank account.
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When one of us dies, the other will clean out the joint account and open a new account in their name only.
If you don't tell anyone your partner has died, how will they find out. The only time it should come up is if you want to sell your property. Or am I being naive.
What if you die in a hospital or when being treated by a doctor whilst you are in Turkey - I would think they have to produce a death certificate - then the authorities may know you have deliberately broken the law?
Also thinking it through - if it means you have a "window of opportunity with a POA for a week let's say whilst you keep quiet and/or hide! the body in the wardrobe" - how do you sell in 7 days unless you go through an intermediary who just happens to have a list of well respected Turkish business people who will move quickly !
I bet you might have to sell for quite a discount ;D
Sent from my ARCHOS 80 COBALT using Tapatalk 2
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Joking aside about boxing matches :) this thread has been very interesting and I am thinking the same way as Anne enjoy your property whilst you are able and then sell it if your health declines or whatever... (if you are able to get a buyer with the ever increasing properties that seem to be available)fortunately we have just passed the five year mark and had mulled over maybe trying to sell and purchase somewhere a little bigger but then that would mean another five years would have to pass (I assume the capital gains tax would need to be paid on a different property if you moved but sold up before another set of five years had passed?)dont think we will bother to look into moving we shall make do with what we have :)
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I believe another way round the immoveable assets issue is to purchase through a company so that the share just gets transferred , maybe someone knows more about this?
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I am still waiting for a lawyer including the one advertised to reply to me, strange how they are quick to reply if there is a few bob in it for them, but when asked a question, that could possibly lead to a potential client they totally ignore. maybe a gentle nudge and see if they will now reply, including kobaltlaw.co.uk ,still waiting
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I am stıll waıtıng a reply as well.
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Blessed are those who expecteth nothing for they shall not be disappointed.
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Without wishing to detract from the discussion, can I just ask ytokgoz "who wrote the content of your first post"
This "article" has been kicking about the internet for a while and is on a few sites. It may have originated from the Voices Newspaper in Altinkum but even then, it may not have been written by them. The most complete version is available here:
http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/property/more/beware-turkish-inheritance-law-property-in-turkey-10412 (http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/property/more/beware-turkish-inheritance-law-property-in-turkey-10412)
Given its provenance and lack of reference, place as much weight on its contents as you see fit.
JF
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hi, i believe the solicitor has replied to you now loz,
what did he say can you share it with us please
thank you
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Not yet received
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Nor me. stıll waıtıng.
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Nor me. stıll waıtıng.
Did you send an email too? still nothing this end, I have checked the spam and junk mail. I sent a copy online through the website and a copy from my own email, yet still nothing.
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Yes I dıd. No reply and looked everywhere on computer as well.
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What happens if you are single or have no children? If you state in your will you want a niece/ nephew /godchild to have your property, is this valid?
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I do not wish to be pedantic, 'Joannasal', but I believe it would be extremely difficult (IMPOSSIBLE), to have nieces or nephews without you having siblings, who would inherit the property. If there were no living siblings, their children,i.e. your nieces/nephews would have to go through the whole rigmarole on their own behalf. A very tangled web in Turkey I fear.
Mr. Loz. >:(
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Thank you
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ytokgoz - 5 days ago you stated that the solicitor had replied to loz. Both loz and quackers politely informed you that neither had received a reply but as yet, despite posting elsewhere, you have not addressed this issue.
Would you care to clarify the position.
Many thanks.
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Still nothing as of today. I wonder if the online lawyer told Ytokgoz that he had replied.
I don't think I would be recommending the use of this lawyer.
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Nor me I am stıll waıtıng.
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hello, sorry i have been away and didnt read the post, last time i spoke to the lawyer he said he has repllied it all, but i will chase him up again. i am sorry my bad.
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i have just spoken to him and he will reply your email, sorry loz
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it is not just my email others on here are waiting too.
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Hi Loz you have got email, can you please share the answer here thank you
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Loz . We wait with baited breath..
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I have just returned home and will need to go through it again, as the English is not very clear. but glancing at it the information has not been confirmed. it is just relating to what was originally posted and what we already know about inheritance. no confirmation of procedures, costs or going to the tax office to register the death or pay the % of the property, I think I will need to re write it once again numbering each and every question.
No answer either to how our friend invoked his UK Will to ensure his wishes were met.
Another case of a lawyer saying yes make a Will but the inheritance laws of Turkey will be up held. I will contact another lawyer requesting confirmation of cost when executing a Will in Turkey. one day, one day.
Going to bed now and I will not lose sleep over this.
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can you please copy and paste the raw answer email from the solicitor if you dont mind without commenting.
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are you there loz? me and other members here can not wait to see the reply of solicitors.
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again I have just got back home, got a cup of coffee.
copy below. as you can see no real answer.
My questions.
> They were advised to make a Will for their property in Turkey, this was
> drawn up accordingly, the husband bequeathed all his goods etc. to his wife
> and the wife did the same bequeathing to her husband, the cost of this was
> approx £300-£500
> Unfortunately the husband died 2 years later; the wife when ready took the
> Turkish Will to a Turkish Advukat in turkey.
>
> To cut a long story short this is an account of what happened next, it may
> be out of timeline. (cost are approx and probably more)
The Advukat informed of their Fee including that of the Sworn Translator
> 5000TL, they then took the widow to the Notary so that the law firm could
> act on her behalf.\r\nthe next step was the Judge to open the Will 600Tl
> This info was then sent to the Embassy in Izmir.
seek out a UK lawyer to swear
> Allegiance, and draw up and Affiavit, Â £500 then Certificates needed to be
> Apostile Marriage Certificate £33 Birth Certificate of both spouses
> £66 Death Certificate  £33As there are Children involved they had to be
> contacted and Affidavits drawn to confirm that they did not wish to
> inherit. UK lawyer  £250The dead partners had brothers and sisters they
> too were contacted and sworn affidavits to and the dead brother an
> Apostiled death Certificate the cost  £500This information was then put to
> Turkish court to be ratified, Â £150 The information was collected and sent
> to Izmir,
Turkey to the surviving partners property; cost 500TLnat this stage if the
> court of peace and Tapu Manager cannot agree, because the husband
> bequeathed ALL his worldly goods, everything to the wife, he did not
> mention property, it then had to go to Justice Court 500Tl they agreed
> that this should include the property; back it went to the Peace Court,
> 500TL who then a!
> greed with the ruling of the Justice Court and the Tapu Manager agreed.
> The next step to have the property in th sol name of the Wife, was to the
> Tax office to obtain a stamp of inheritance. they inspect the papers and
> the cost is 10% of the declared property price, in this case it was a
> small 2 bed apartment  £38,000, therefore the cost  £3,800 (or the Turkish
> Lira equivalent of the day). The Tax receipt is then taken to the Tapu
> office and they put the Title of the property into the name of the
> surviving Spouse. Therefore the cost (approx) is £5,500 and over 4 years
> to conclusion.I forgot to mention that the Wife was fined at the Tax
> office because she waited 6months to report the death. The total huge, and remember that most of this money is upfront in Turkey.
The 2ndOur British
> neighbour was murdered; he did not have a Turkish Will and was
> not married. He did own property in the UK and held a UK Will. His house
> was closed for 2 years by the prosecutor, in this time a UK law firm were
> instructed by the executors of his UK Will to seek possession of the
> property even though he has a Son and Daughter, the firm eventually sent 2
> employees to Turkey along with the son and Daughter to sort through the
> moveable assets, the law firm also held POA to seize the bank account,
> transferring funds to the UK bank in line with the executors of the UK
> Will. The house was then locked up and a Turkish Lawyer to deal with the
> sale of the Villa. The property eventually sold and the proceeds went to
> the Bank in the UK for the UK estate to deal with as per instructions of
> the UK Will. The cost was very expensive as employees of the firm had to
> visit Turkey, a UK law firm and Turkish Law firm and courts involved, the
> cost was between £8,000-£10,000 and took 5 years to resolve.
No where are these facts confirmed or aknowledged, typical Lawyers, tell you how much they want for the work we are all aware of but will not inform you of the facts.
Reply
Thank you for your enquiry with Property&Turkey.
First of all, I would like to make it clear that preparing a Turkish will is complicated. If you go to wrong address, everything can get messed up as you experience in your friends' cases.
The important thing is Turkish will needs to be prepared by a professional who knows Turkish Inheritance Law very well and who can give advice to their clients by taking into account client's personal conditions.
Most of the lawyers are missing one point. Under Turkish Inheritance Law, legal heirs have hidden shares which cannot be changed by a will. In this case, the legal heir needs to waive from his/her shares in order to be excluded from the estate. This should be made under an agreement between the legal heir and legator and this agreement is subject to same requirements as will, therefore it should be notarized in a notary with two witnesses. If it is notarized in the UK, then it should be legalized at FCO in order to be valid under Turkish law.
Turkish will is definitely necessary for foreigners who have property in Turkey, because these properties will be dealt with under Turkish Inheritance Law if the owners pass away. Also, this property should be mentioned in the will. What we recommend to our clients is preparation of a Turkish will for their property in Turkey and preparation of an English will for their assets in the UK.
Furthermore, if the owner gives a Power of Attorney to someone else to sell or transfer the property, this Power of Attorney becomes valid upon the death of the owner. Even if the Grantee sells or transfers the property by using this PoA, this transaction is invalid and the heirs can sue him/her and take the property back.
I hope the above information is helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any other questions.
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", this Power of Attorney becomes valid upon the death of the owner."
should be INVALID upon the death of the owner....
i think there is a typo there and i believe he has corrected the typo in the second email
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so loz, to sum up with you say turkish will is not necessary, people should just give power of attorney and if one of the spouses dies , the other spouse use the power of attorney and run away
and i say not matter how long or the costly the procedure is , you should do everything legally...
so i am asking you loz, what is the legal and cheap alternative to wills ?
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Not to buy a property in the first place, sell it and rent, far far too much heartache,
Now as I messaged you in private I will write now in Public, stop hounding me, and go push your website elsewhere.
ps I have just seen your post regarding a second email. I have no second email, so how on earth are you privvy to a personal email on your website to a lawyer? this is very disturbing that You are informed of PRIVATE information before the person who has the email. another reason not to use YOUR lawyer.
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i am only guessing loz ,
also when did you messaged me on private?
it is nothing about my own website or anything else.
it is about you advicing people wrong information and advice!!! this is what i am fighting here for. you had rough time i believe and respect that, but it doesnt give you the right to advice people something totally illegal.
you have been simply advicing people something illegal. you have been totally ignoring my years of experience and said you will ask the solicitor and you had your reply stating that how wrong you are , and now you are going to ask another solicitor.
i dont think any solicitor would agree with you.
so to sum up i recommend you to accept you were wrong and lets close this threat ,unless you can find a solicitor who advices to give power of attorney and use it illegally .
about the costs.....
yes i agree it is a long and costly process if you get involved with people with no knowledge. but it doesnt give you right to recommend somethign illegal
And regarding my solicitor and my website, he doesnt earn any money neither i have. he replies about 4-5 emails everyday from altinkum to ankara helping people giving professional free advice. and he does it free.
i am earning no money regarding my website, if you care to read about us page you will see why i did that website. i hope and believe people had some benefits from my page and it was beneficial for them . if i didnt believe it was usefull i would not bother to design and prepare it.
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look at the messages on your CBF. under My Messages.
I still do not know how on earth you have or had access to email that I have not received
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not a single message from you
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I will write it again.
I still would like to know how you got a private email to me from your lawyer.
I am off out again now, so don't hound me again for a reply.
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I am stıll waıtıng for a reply to my query.
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quackers i sent you a email 4 or 5 days ago and still hasnt replied to me...are yo usure you are checking your emails?
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I check my maıl and junk maıl 3 tımes a day nothıng yet.
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There appears to be a pattern developing here.
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Hooray !!!! Someone has at last stated the bleeding obvious !!!!!
"Not to buy a property in the first place, sell it and rent, far far too much heartache"
Why on earth 'buy' and be at the mercy of the stagnant housing market when you can invest your money and pay rent with the interest and gain additional profit ? Even if interest rates fall you will still be in profit as rents are so cheap. :D
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There appears to be a pattern developing here.
Sure does, and should it not be the lawyer that is emailing? or am I missing the point here?
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I am still waiting to see a reply to your original question. Ytokgoz and the 'solicitor are very good at clouding the issue by not giving direct answers and concentrating on your 'throw away comment over poa. Ytokgoz, stop clouding the issue by attacking loz and answer the question! Oh.....you can't can you because loz's breakdown of process andcostsis correct isn't it? Answer yes or no. Don't cloud the issue any more, give a simple yes or no, if no then explain where either the cost or process is wrong. Do not go on again about power of attourney.
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What, no answer?
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I think this topic is now going round in circles. Ytokgoz and Loz will not be agreeing any decade soon and in fairness Loz knows far better than most of us Brits how these things work in practice and I fear that Yusuf has been a little let down by his lawyer friend. This sort of idea (free legal advice on websites) is excellent in theory but in my experience always goes the same way - everyone thinks it is a brilliant idea but in practice I have never seen it work.
Private legal matters and public discussion, a risky mix.
Loz knows what she would do and advise and I doubt will be swayed. Yusuf isn't a lawyer and isn't offering anything other than a link to free advice. I suggest we put this to bed and if they want to carry on via email or letter bomb, they can ;)
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Agree it is really the only thing to do unless of course there is a concise response or answer from the Lawyer which can be added if and when. Yet I personally think that the original poster does not post more links to the free lawyer, most lawyer will give a free initial appointment with a view to picking up future business. unfortunately this one has not proved himself.
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If I receive a response and all parties are in agreement I will add it to the bottom of the topic. For now we are done and dusted, topic will be locked (not deleted, not censored ;) )
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Replies sent to admin from members who have contributed already will be added as requested and the topic remains locked. ytokgoz has requested the following reply be added...
"
"To LOZ; I appreciate you/ or the people you know have suffered because of wills and and long bureucy of Turkish law systems, which is always so slow. When I put the post out there my intention was to bring the importance of the wills and to promote my FREE website which I think many people would benefit.as i say this is a free service and the idea is to offer foreigners a free service to market their properties, get free answers to their legal question, or to learn about turkish mortgages . I am getting very good feedback from people who let their property or sold their properties from my website or who got an answer to the legal matters which they had their mind. I have never said about the will and the procedure would be easy or cheap and never involved with the costs. I appreciate it would be a lengthy and costly procedure, but my point was from the beginning to the end , regardless your advice I still would state that people should seek legal advice regarding their wills and other legal matters. THEY SHOULD NOT DO POWER OF ATTORNEY as it is not legal and consequence could be worse "
"To QUACKERS; I have got no idea what your email is about, as we have not received it and even I tried to send an email regarding your question; if you could send it again , I have got no response, It makes me think if you really sent an email in the first place? I am saying again; if you have sent an email please send it again and I will personally make sure you will get the answer and I am sorry if we didnt received your email if you really did send the email."
"To ERIC; I have got no ideas what your issue is but I am afraid I dont live on CBF all the time , even I wish I could spend more time on it, because I believe I am one of the / or only one Turkish member of the site who posts regularly. We are not clouding any issues, plus we do our best to make things clear; but it is up to individuals to how much they want to understand and see. Regarding your question; unfortunately every single case is individual in Turkish law and every judge practice could be different which would make the costs vary. For example one judge could ask for more paperwork from UK and the other one could be satisfied with the papers provided . I know this from personally my self because I used to be a sworn translator in fethiye and join the courts to translate british people things."
The last word is ; I am not an enemy neither I have financial benefit from this website. It is up to individualls if they want to market their property for free on this website or not, if they want to ask for free legal advice or not. I am really happy that many people let /sold their properties from my website or found a satisfying answer to their legal questions.
You may all wonder why I have designed a website for the benefit of people; this is the link where you can read it your self ; http://www.propertyandturkey.com/about-us.php
but as Scunner said people dont appreciate FREE services no matter how good they are, but I will continue doing what I know right with the people who appreciate it.
Thank You
Yusuf Tokgoz"