Calis Beach and Fethiye Turkey Discussion Forum
General Topics => All things that have nothing to do with Turkey => Topic started by: ytokgoz on January 28, 2013, 08:55:38 AM
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sick but unfortunetly so true :(
what do you think?
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/150092_463579220370807_1742860576_n.jpg)
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I think it is in the wrong section.
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So do I :)
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That ... plus the immigration issue really touches a nerve and makes my blood boil >:( unfortunately .. except for Farage with the immigration debacle it seems no other politician is concerned.. they all live in their own world and out of touch with the REAL issues that worry most of us.
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The person asking the question might be the best to answer it. Yusuf, you came to the UK from Turkey - are you enjoying the free money, free house etc - or are you working your butt off for hours on end to pay your mortgage on the house you bought?
The perception is that the statement posted is correct, and it couples with another CBF topic where it was suggested that certain young Turks have relationships so they can get to live in the UK and enjoy all the benefits. Over the years I have known many people from Turkey come to the UK to start a new life and all of them working.
I think it goes for other nationalities too - people come to find work (and work hard) to earn a decent standard of living - they don't come to get free money. The problem is that we don't need thousands and thousands of people to come and fill jobs anymore, far from it.
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hi ,
sick but true and it even makes me more sick even it is not my country.
i came here 2 years ago even though i would fit in the criteria for free housing because of my children etc , i choose not to. i was fortunete enough to afford a deposit for a house and got mortgage, no i pay ridiculous council tax (compare to turkey), nhs and tax.
but it really makes me fed up that i see people capable of working choose not to work, because government is looking after them anyway, why should they work? it is the moral of those people.
but i hate to pay for them, because it is my tax going in to their pocket , where they can spend it on their dogs, on gambling or on drink... it is not fair, and i have been searching for a political party who would have the guts to stop this but seems like there is not a party for it.
i would like to have a dog but i can not afford as i have mortgage, two children etc, costs but people i know who lives on benefits have dogs , latest mobile phone, out - partying everynight...it is not fair. it is not my country but i think there must be some british who have guts to say that it is not fair.
one of the things i would suggest is, all these criminals live on benefits , if government says if you do criminal activity(like burglary etc) we will stop your benefits i wonder how quick the crime would stop , how many people would stop being pick pocket...
also i watch one born every minute and i can not believe 16 years old having baby, they say my friend so so had one so i will have one...parent are not there, they rely on government to look after them. her job description is a single mum. she doesnt work, why she needs to? the government will look after her, giver her house, benefits...
i revently sit in life in the uk test, one of the question answer was this
65% of children have single parent
25% of children have both mum and dad
10% children dont know mum and dad
what a figure isnt it?
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so 120 people read this post and every body is ok with giving your hard earned taxes to people who likes cheating the system?
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I dont think anyone is happy with any part of it Yusuf,but despite promise after promise by different political parties very little changes,so most people seethe in frustration.
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I would say Farage and UKIP may be worth a look ?
I don't recognise my own town these days and was even approached by a Beggar with a written note asking for help to support her children.......... I despair!
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4764841/Why-work.html
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But of course why bother living in the UK at all. Just say you do, then come & spend your time overseas making the most of the tax payers pound while you catch a tan.
>:(
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I meet a lot of immigrants in my everyday life. To start with there are my next door neighbours who are Polish and whom I see when they get back from work. [I don't see them when they go out to work because it is early in the morning and my curtains are drawn. And, before Little Georgie Osborne has a hissy fit over me not working and claiming benefits, it because I am a pensioner]. Then there are all those immigrants who drive my buses and serve me at checkouts. Fortunately, I don't see as many immigrants as I did a couple of years ago when, in a twelve month period, I spent a total of 60 days in 4 hospitals. A great many of the people who cared for me were immigrants. And that includes Ahu Hetmen hospital in Marmaris where the immigrants were the Scandinavian staff of the International Liaison Department.
So I am more than happy to have all these working immigrants looking after me and happily ignore all fuss over a small minority of immigrants working the system.
Ytokgoz, you say "sick but unfortunately true". It ain't true so it ain't sick.
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it is not the immigrant colywn, it is cheating the system i am fed up with. and it is more than you think.
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Well your original piece of propaganda said "you should consider moving to England". The nasty little poster is anti-immigrant. As to benefit fraud (cheating the system) being more than I think, I don't know how well you know the UK but I am surprised that you think you know it better than I do since I have lived here all my life. When it comes to cheating the Exchequer of money I see that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs estimates that benefit fraud costs the country £1.2 billion per annum. In comparison the cost to the Exchequer of tax evasion is £14 billion - which is about 12 times as much. So I think I'll worry about tax evasion 12 times more than I worry about benefit fraud.
[Of course this ignores legal benefit payments that you may not like but it also ignores all legal tax avoidance much of which I don't like - especially in that dodgy grey area that accountants call "evosion"].
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Very eloquently put Colwyn. My sentiments entirely.
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my son as been unemployed for 3 months and he as targets set by the dole to apply for x number jobs per day. if he does not hit this, his dole money is stopped,
after being unemployed now for 3 months, they have given him a ultimatum,to go to work for nothing ,10hrs,3days a week,or they will stop his dole money,he was hoping there would be a job at the end of this,but today was told no-one gets a job there
the work is outside and backbreaking and no out door clothes supplied.
he is use to hard work as he was a milk man before he was made redundant up all hours and working 12 hour days,6 days a week.
why is the fella in the report not been made to do this ??
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Tax evasion / avoidance and legal or fraudulent benefits payment - it's all wrong.
There are so many living off the state in this country and many more coming here deliberately for that reason and it infuriates many people - rightly so.
I suppose depending on where you live, the number of people living on benefits will vary as will the number of people coming in from other countries so some will feel more strongly than others.
I don't feel more anger at corporate tax evasion it pee's me off about the same as thousands of people moving to the UK to live off the system or bits of kids planning a large family to ensure they also get welfare and don't have to work for it.
Nobody should ever be allowed to starve and all should have a roof over their head - but big TV's, manicures, holidays, booze and fags....can't be right can it? >:(
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Thank you Colwyn. It's good to have the voice of reason on here. Every immigrant that I know works really hard and contributes enormously to the economy. The inflammatory language and scare tactics used by politicians like Farage panders to people's base fears. Look at the facts. Don't let politicians tell you what to think.
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That poster looks like its from the front page of the Daily Mail. Sensationalist ! The world is full of scammers:- benefit, property, tax, toy boys !!
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I used to mange a Homecare service and most of my team were Spanish, Croatian, Slovakian, Venezuelan, Columbian and a few British.
I used to have very few applications from British people who were prepared to start on £7.20 an hour.
Then there was the issue of how many hours the British staff would work, many only wanted 16 hours as they would be better off as they would get housing benefit, child care tax credits, didn't want to earn too much and have to pay off their student loans etc etc
The only ones who ever went sick were British, the only ones who 'forgot' their shifts were British.
The only ones who turned down overtime were British.
The only ones who didn't like going to training sessions, supervisions, team meetings ( which they were paid to attend) etc were British.
The only ones who moaned about the mileage allowance and expenses were British.
All the non British staff would come along to the office for meetings cheerfully, kissing each other on the cheek, offering to make tea and coffee, staying afterwards to wash up.
The British staff would be the last to arrive and mostly moan from start to finish.
A lot of the additional money the non British staff earned was sent home to poorer family members.
Many used the opportunity to gain qualifications that would get them into nursing etc in their own countries in the future.
But most important was the level of care shown to the clients. For most of the British staff it was just a job, they adhered to policies, procedures etc and weren't in any way negligent ( or they would have been dismissed) and did the basic job they were supposed to do.
But watching the way the others interacted with clients and the bond they built up with them and their families, the level of care, respect, dignity and going the extra mile was frankly amazing.
I think this was maybe due to their cultures where people care for each other within extended family etc. they couldn't understand why so many people in England have to go into nursing or care homes.
Unfortunately the system has made many people lazy in the UK, people don't seem to value the opportunity of having a career.
Maybe thats due to a culture where so many grow up with many people in the family not working but still having everything they need, they don't have incentive or role models.
Obviously I'm speaking from my own experience and am sure in some other professions there are still ambitious hard working British staff but don't believe that I would have been the only employer reluctant to take on British people.
Ultimately any business needs hard working committed staff to remain in business.
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very interesting post Linda and also Colwyn's :) my husband is a manager of a company that employs a lot of Polish people and he actually says they are far harder working then the Brits dont moan and just get on with the job, of course I am not saying this applys to all British people I myself do two jobs which equates to a 10 hour day, but I do this so we can have our trips to Turkey and not have to rent out our little place in the sun...the people that should be clamped down on are the ones that come over to uk purely to get given a house and benefits but maybe with the new benefit laws that are coming into place maybe eventually this will be a thing of the past.......
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Ytokgoz, I’m interested to know what you would do if you were made redundant today? I’m guessing your spoken English is pretty good because your written English isn’t too bad so it’s just possible you’d get a new job in a few weeks if you tried hard. But let’s say you didn’t get another job quickly. You’d have only a few options available to you that I can think of. Perhaps you’d ask your wife to move to Turkey with you so that you both could look for work there. But what if you can’t afford to do that because of your lack of income? Or perhaps you don’t have anyone there anymore that you could stay with while you looked for work. Do you have kids in school here that might not be able to leave as quickly as you would like? Would you then ask your wife to get an extra job to help pay the bills and mortgage until you find work? If she can’t find work either would you hand your keys over to the mortgage company and explain why you can’t pay the mortgage anymore? Or, just maybe, would you go on benefits while you search? Because it’s people in your situation, honest workers living here legitimately, that we’re talking about here. You have to have worked in UK for a year to qualify for benefits. These are people who were working and have fallen on harder times. It’s not illegal immigrants. They don’t qualify for benefits because legally they don’t exist. It’s not asylum seekers because they’re put in very basic accommodation and live on £35 a week until their case has been proven and then they’re either sent home or sent out to work. My guess is that you’d take the benefits and look for work as any other UK other resident is entitled to.
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i dont have problem with decent people with benefits, that is the benefits for , my problem is people likes cheating the system.
for example
when i first came to uk i worked in travel lodge in chelmsford and at the hotel we had couple of families staying all the time, been there over a year. and council is paying for their accommodation. if you book travel lodge in advance it is 19 pounds, if you book last minutes it is about 60 pounds etc. and you know what chelmsford council was enjoying paying the full price all the time. what a waste of money.
many people i met but would not see again here , they all own businesses and earn lots of money cash, but they stay at council houses, bigger than mine, get all the benefits to the maximum. this is what i have problem with.
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Wasnt the guy with a hook for a hand an asylum seeker, dont recall his accomadation basic, few hundred thousand i beleive, also dont remember him been sent out to work either. ;).
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If you’re talking about Abu Hamza he’s hardly typical. He claimed asylum from being extradited to the US for being an al-Quaeda supporter. He was arrested for terrorism here too and in jail for years. He’s in America now. I’ve looked it up and he had been living in a £220k house in Greenford (try finding one in Greenford that costs less) that he said belonged to his sister. The judge eventually decided that he was lying about the house and about not having money and ordered him to pay all the court costs back. He probably did cost us money in other ways but as I said, he’s not exactly typical. Asylum seekers are people seeking protection from us because they believe their lives to be in danger in their own countries. Each case is looked into individually and if they are found to be in danger at home then they’re granted asylum and are free to go and find jobs. If they aren’t granted asylum they’re sent home. Surely we aren’t now saying that genuine asylum seekers should be sent home to face the music regardless are we?
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Poor old Yusef,sticks up for the hard workers ,slates off the shirkers and gets pillored by the comrades ,keep the red flag flying lads as we slowly sink. :-[
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the comrades ,keep the red flag flying lads
Poor Ronzeus, can't tell his "lads" from his "lasses". Perhaps his brain is worn out trying to qualify on the Scottishness quiz.
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So there are only 2 types of people then. Daily Mail reading people who believe that all foreigners must be cheating the system and communists. Interesting. I like to think I'm somewhere in between.
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Sorry brother Colwyn,i did say i am a disgrace to Scotland. ;D
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i dont have problem with decent people with benefits, that is the benefits for , my problem is people likes cheating the system.
for example
when i first came to uk i worked in travel lodge in chelmsford and at the hotel we had couple of families staying all the time, been there over a year. and council is paying for their accommodation. if you book travel lodge in advance it is 19 pounds, if you book last minutes it is about 60 pounds etc. and you know what chelmsford council was enjoying paying the full price all the time. what a waste of money.
many people i met but would not see again here , they all own businesses and earn lots of money cash, but they stay at council houses, bigger than mine, get all the benefits to the maximum. this is what i have problem with.
Surely the question is how to tell the ytokgoz's of the world and the scammers. In other words, the hard working individual who has come to the UK to make a living - contributing to the system by paying tax etc who through no fault of his own falls on hard times and requires the support of the British benefit system vs the person (wherever they are from) who has no intention of contributing and only taking. So with this in mind what do you propose the government do to ensure that th system isin place for those that need and not for those who want ?????
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I don't even pretend to be able to fathom the complexities of a potential benefits system that could recognise the difference between a legitimate claimant and a scammer but if there were one my guess is we would discover the answer a lot closer to home than within the immigrant population. After all, migrants represent 13% of our workers but only 7% of our claimants. Presumably most of those are legitimate ones (like ytokgoz would be if he fell on hard times). Bloody immigrants! Coming over here and paying our bills!!
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it is not the immigrant colywn, it is cheating the system i am fed up with. and it is more than you think.
I am not trying to be funny Yosuf, but I would like to point out that MANY Turkish people only deal with cash payments to avoid paying their full amount of taxes in Turkey. That is cheating the system.
I would also point out to you that I bet you claim Child Benefit, So you actually receive some of the money back that you pay in to the system.
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I suspect when he talks about those who "cheat the system" he is referring to those who can work, could work, should work but won't work and as for Turks dealing in cash, there is a massive black economy in the UK with people avoiding income tax and VAT.
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Why is everybody attacking Ytokgoz? He's saying what many people think. Also bear in mind he sees it from a different prospective. He is an example of someone with principles who has come here from another country and works very hard yet he sees the loopholes openly exploited by others. This is all he has tried to pinpoint in my opinion.
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I don't think anyone is attacking him Lotty - it's an emotive topic and opinions are strong. I still stand by my belief that most immigrants come to work hard and provide a better life for themselves and their families. Perhaps Yusuf sees it differently because we have, to a degree, learned to accept or ignore the fact that there is a layer of the population who do nothing and take whatever they can. This isn't an immigrant group - there are plenty of British examples.
I imagine Yusuf will have experienced very little like that, having grown up in Turkey - and quite probably notices examples more than the rest of us?
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Why is everybody attacking Ytokgoz? He's saying what many people think. Also bear in mind he sees it from a different prospective. He is an example of someone with principles who has come here from another country and works very hard yet he sees the loopholes openly exploited by others. This is all he has tried to pinpoint in my opinion.
true true why is everyone trying to defend benifit claimants if there is no work how come there are half a million poles here most working. I left school at 16 with no qualifications am now 50 and have never been out of work when my twins were born I worked shifts at a factory and then drove taxis to make ends meet. I now have two businesses keep three people in work English as I haven't had immigrants apply and I legally avoid paying whatever tax my accountant thinks I can get away with tell me you wouldn't if you take in to account VAT I generate about 45k tax why should I pay more
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Ytokgoz - a genuine request from me and, selfishly, to save me searching.
Can you point to one of your 364 posts on here where you praise the UK.
Many thanks in advance.
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Something I forgot to mention just this week I had a guy that had been on one of these courses that promise to make you a has engineer in a month he had gained his gas qualifications but had no experience whatsoever I offered to give him a start on 18k a year and he turned me down said he was looking for more
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I agree Keith, this thread has opened a huge can of worms and opinions will abound. As We both said his view is from a different perspective. To me voicing his concern is not a criticism of this country but a sort of adopted patriotism. Of course he must feel bitter and disillusioned to see others milk the system while he works hard to make an honest living, but hey, it's in all our faces every day (immigrants apart).
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Ytokgoz makes a good point about ALL those who regard the benefit system as an easy alternative to working.
What do you think of the following? Immigrant bashing is not helped by headlines like this, but these are government figures announced on the news yesterday.
£60m child benefit goes out of UK a year. More than £1m a week goes to 47,000 children in the EU, 80% in Eastern Europe, with 2/3rds in Poland alone.
Nothing illegal has been committed here, the borders have been opened and the ‘rules’ have been made.
I’m not asking if you think we should stay or leave the EU if there was a referendum right now, that is another thread, but if you had been consulted and told the proposed ‘rules’ in advance, would you have agreed to them?
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Definitely not.
The issue I have is not with immigrants it is with the people who get too much in benefits.
My sister is a single parent and has been for 15 years.
She lives in a welsh town where jobs are fairly hard to come by. She has never been on the dole, she works as many hous a week she can in a local hotel. She pays her mortgage and keeps a car on the road. If her TV blew up she would have to loan a couple of hundred quid to buy a modest new tv. She would be by far better off jacking in work and going on benefits but she wont because she sees it as her problem to provide a roof over their heads and not the governments.
People should cut their cloth accordingly if they dont work they should be given basic living allowances which does not include 20 fags a day, Sky tv and a 50" telly.
Rant over
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Since we have been using the term "Benefits Claimants" rather loosely I thought it would be helpful to list the kinds of benefits available and who gets them. This comes from an Institute of Fiscal Studies briefing paper (Browne,J. & Hood, A., November 2012). It you want to read the paper in all its lavish detail it can be found here. http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn13.pdf (http://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn13.pdf)
My apologies for poor presentation of the pie chart - I had difficulty lifting it out of the pdf.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/ColwynJones/benefits_zps975d2900.png)
It is not all that easy to find how many in each category are out of work. Obviously the vast majority of state pensioners are unemployed but they are not usually counted as being out of work. Family benefits are available to both in work and out of work without difference so I would guess that they have more or less the same proportion of employed/unemployed in society. I further guess that quite a lot of sick and disabled people will be out of work but, again, these are usually treated as a separate category.
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The link must be on a three day week :)
Senior moment - sorry.
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My fault H. I didn't enter it using the Insert Hyperlink button. Corrected now (I hope).