That one sounds like fun Tribalelder! Will have to wait for the October half term thou, I think August will be a little warm to walk 70% up hill..... will see if I can check it out on google earth, to plan the route, won't tell the girls just say we are going to Kale Park for breakfast then carry on after that! Once we had dropped down abit from Kaya towards Olu Deniz the route becomes a lot easier, we have a place in Ciftlik, does anyone know good routes up the hills behind there, we did take the hire car to Cengar once, but the roads were not good and we left lots of the car parts behind on the road (well it felt and sounded like it anyway)!