Author Topic: School Indiscipline  (Read 1640 times)

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Offline Colwyn

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School Indiscipline
« on: September 19, 2011, 12:52:55 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

indispline is a very serious problem in our schools at this moment in time ... What would your solution be?

Tinkerman suggests that I come forward with a solution to the problem of school indiscipline.  This is a pretty tall order, especially for a forum posting, and I have no great expertise in the topic. I have never taught in a school and nor have I made any serious study of the issue. So I will not claim that I know the solution; indeed, I am still uncertain about what the problem is. However, I will lay out a few thoughts about how I would go about searching for partial solutions.

To begin with I would attempt to define as tightly as possible the nature and scale of the problem/s we are addressing. In terms of the nature of the problem, is it that unruly pupils and preventing others from learning? If so, then the solutions shouldn't be too difficult find. Or is it that schools are failing society by turning out large numbers of unsocialized young people who are a threat to social order? If so, it is a much bigger issue. Further questions, would no doubt emerge as we consider the topic. In terms of scale, is it true that there are widespread problems, that these are of relatively recent origin, and that they are getting worse. I think it is this view that fuels public concern. There is conflicting evidence here. Anecdotally, we have reports from some school teachers, pupils, parents and HMIs of what I guess all of us would agree are appalling conditions in the classroom. On the other hand, we have long-term statistical evidence that academic success, measured by examinations, is at its highest level ever. I know that some people find it convenient to dismiss these statistics are "fiddled" or are worse than "lies, damned lies". However, I am not prepared to simply ignore this evidence without good reason. They certainly don't support the view of widespread, chronic disorder in our classrooms - a general malaise - that is a new and growing problem.

Whatever view we take on this, it is clear that there are serious concerns about this issue, and that some teachers do face very difficult classes and do worse than other teachers in dealing with them, and that some schools have more bad classrooms and poor performance than others. I have some thoughts about these issues - but this posting is already in danger of becoming an essay and, anyway, I don't have time at the moment so I'll leave these for subsequent postings.



Offline BM06

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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2011, 16:17:07 PM »
2/10 see me after school ;)

Offline tinkerman

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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2011, 17:42:08 PM »
I wish I hadn't asked now:D

Have you ever thought of going into politics ;)

Offline Colwyn

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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2011, 18:34:15 PM »
quote:
Originally posted by tinkerman

I wish I hadn't asked now:D

Have you ever thought of going into politics ;)

What makes you think I haven't been into politics? Would you like me to stop now - with two more contributions in the pipeline? Because, having started this, you are honour-bound to read the rest!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2011, 18:38:46 PM by Colwyn »

Offline ronzeus

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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2011, 18:50:20 PM »
No wonder Tinx sees white horses going past his house,you have got to him Colwyn. :D

Offline tinkerman

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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 05:55:58 AM »
Nay I jest Colwyn, please do not let me stop you in mid gush, do carry on.

Offline Colwyn

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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 12:15:50 PM »
[Here is some more gush for you Tinx].

What can individual teachers do to create and maintain discipline in the classroom?

Although I have never been a school teacher, I did teach 16-18 year-olds (and all the way to 60+) in a technical college some 40 years ago. Many of our students were apprentices, and might be termed "reluctant learners". Having escaped from school as soon as possible some of them were not very happy to find that their employers had sent them back to the classroom for one day a week. This was especially the case when they were required to attend "General Studies" classes which was one of the things it was my job to supply. When I started my Head of Department warned me that some of these classes would be "difficult". I would be doing OK if I kept the noise down to levels that would not disturb neighbouring classes where "important" subjects like Maths and Metallurgy were being studied. In short he would be happy as long as he didn't get any complaints about me from the powerful Head of Engineering. It was up to me to achieve some sort of discipline. (If you have read the early Wilt novels by Tom Sharpe you will have some insight into what things were like).

In creating this discipline I did not have the benefit of teacher training (that came later) and, of course, the college had no corporal punishment - nor, in the four years I was there did I hear any lecturer suggesting it was something we needed. One of my classes, last thing on a Friday afternoon, was teaching General Studies to 16 year-old apprentice colliers. They spent four days down the pit and had Friday on the surface. The notion that I would take a cane to any of these lads would have been ludicrous.

My first year was quite hard; the second was a bit easier; and, after that, I didn't really have a problem with discipline. At first I thought I should stand at the front of the class and, in a loud firm voice, call for quiet and attention. Pathetic. Worse than useless. All that happened was that the whole class (there could be 30 to 40 students) would reply even louder so I would need to shout over the din. By the end of the first week I had lost my voice. Slowly through experience and advice from colleagues I learned other ways of going about things. Here are some of them. Begin the class by specifying exactly what the student would learn in the next hour. At the end underline what they have learned and praise them. Organize thins so that much of the work is individual or in small groups (this breaks up the "gang" mentality of the whole class). Hand out readings with questions to be answered; by the time the chief troublemakers have got round to saying "Yer mate, you don't expect us to do this do you?" the rest of the class have already got their heads down and are doing Question 1. Remember that the time-span of attention of teenagers is generally very short indeed (and is probably even worse today than it was then). You can't expect them to concentrate on anything in the classroom for longer than 10 to 15 minutes. So you have to design the lesson to have lots of different kinds of activities to keep everything changing.

OK, that's some of the things I began to learn. So what? What these things have in common is that what happens in the classroom has to be well planned. You can't expect students to take things seriously if you don't. That, in turn, means that teachers have to have enough time and resources to plan and execute teaching. I hear teachers complaining that instead of this they spend their time filling in forms to provide information for the ridiculous management-by-setting-targets that successive governments have forced upon education (and much of the rest of the public sector as well).  I have experience of the huge amount of staff hours that are thrown into HMI inspections and the paperwork these demand - and mostly for the purpose of generating school league tables. So, one of the very things we can do is to take away as many as possible of these burdens from teachers and free them for the vital business of preparing classes that will "work".

What of those poor teachers who are unable to do this? In my experience what happened is - nothing! They continue with what must be a miserable existence struggling to control classes, and failing. I knew a few lecturers who were like this. Not only did they fail to teach students they also made life a lot more difficult for the rest of us. It seems to me that such teachers either have to be removed from the classroom (sack them) or receive (re)training, support and mentoring so that they can cope with the classroom. As a trade unionist I prefer the latter option but, of course, it will require more resources. What I certainly don't think will do any good is arming these poor teachers with canes.

That's a few ideas about individual teachers. I am sure that there must be some school teachers among CBF members and I would be interested in their views (if they are not already sick to the back teeth of these kind of debates). An issue that I have ignored is what happens in those schools where indiscipline is endemic; where neither good or poor teachers can hope to deal with classes and deliver the education to pupils for which they are employed. I might come to this issue in another post.

Offline BM06

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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 15:54:13 PM »
Much better Colwyn, 9/10 would have been 10 but for thins? well done ;)

Offline Colwyn

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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 16:29:51 PM »
Glad you are paying so much attention.

Offline Colwyn

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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 14:37:27 PM »
Changing Ill-disciplined Schools.

What about when discipline problems appear endemic; that whole schools have discipline problems? How many of such schools there are I don't know. However, if we make the assumption that poor discipline is a key factor in schools being deemed inadequate we can look to Ofsted findings. Clearly defining exactly what we mean by inadequate is important. When Ofsted changed its criteria in 2010 the number of schools listed as "inadequate" rose dramatically from 4% to 10%. I have some strong reservations about the validity of Ofsted's inspections but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a moment and accept the figure of 10% for "failing schools". What is to be done about these?

Listening to interviews with educationalists  about "turning round" schools (educationalist = a professional who makes a living out of education without actually teaching anybody anything)  one thing is stressed more than any other - the appointment of a Headteacher with a very clear view about change and has the firm backing of the Board of Governors in this. One may also suppose that the Head must then build up a commitment to this change from other school staff. Together, they can then move forward in improving the performance of the school. After this, I am not at sure that what the Head actually does, in terms of the mechanisms of change, makes a great deal of difference. Any problem that becomes a clear focus of attention, and is given priority in resources and energy is likely to improve. I strongly suspect that this lies behind the achievements of the "management gurus" who, over the last quarter of a century, have brought us all manner of "management philosophies" -Just in Time, Lean Manufacturing, Six Sigma, Theory of Constraints, and all the rest of them. What seems to be important is not the precise management tools deployed; instead it is the strong, united commitment of all levels of management to the favoured way forward. It is not about rationality; it is about belief. If you are in a company where the news is that if you don't turn things around so you are profit in three months time then Head Office will close you down, having something to believe in, setting aside your disbelief, becomes crucial in getting you through the next few weeks. It is a commonplace to assert that organizational change requires a "change champion" but, as one senior executive told me "You don't need a champion; you need a zealot.

The same sort of thing, I suggest, applies to changing schools. The zealous Head inspiring key champions with a determination to change things around. When I listen to these "outstanding" Heads interviewed on the radio, they seem to have a variety of different cures that they espouse. However, I have never heard any of them say that that the introduction of corporal punishment would have helped them to do better or to do it faster. From my point of view I would favour Heads creating support structures and personnel to help the weaker teachers to perform better and to back them when they are struggling to do this.

Do we always have change Headteachers in order to secure change? Must it be some outsider with a vision who must come in to replace the current Head? Or is it possible to give existing Heads  a new vision and enthusiasm to change things themselves? This is something I have never heard anyone discuss and perhaps it is something worth studying. But not by me. I'm finished with my thoughts.




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