The big cover up

[Stuart T]

After many visits to Fethiye and driving/motorcycling throughout the south west region, I have never seen anyone wearing the full niqab.

On a recent (business - certainly not pleasure) visit to what is now a strongly Muslim - populated area of London, I saw two "tribes" (not sure of the collective noun) of ladies in full regalia (all had posh shoes though). Eyes only and all in black

Now, at the risk of being labelled bigot, racist or whatever it just seemed somehow "wrong" for an area in which I had formerly lived.

As Turkey seems to be moving in a less secular direction, is this to be expected to spread to the touristy south west region also?

When I said my "bigoted" ( according to Scunner) piece about my discomfort seeing replica football shirts worn in restaurants it was just my personal tastes. At a football match, fine. Not in a restaurant.

My London visit made me somewhat more uncomfortable in my surroundings.

France has stood against this - in a legal way -

A case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman, who argued that the ban on wearing the veil in public violated her freedom of religion and expression.

French law says nobody can wear in a public space clothing intended to conceal the face. The penalty for doing so can be a 150-euro fine (£120; $205).

The 2010 law came in under former conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.

A breach of the ban can also mean a wearer having to undergo citizenship instruction.

I doubt Turkey can go this far but if Fethiye/Calis becomes this way it's goodbye to my consideration of a holiday home there.

(P.S. on a lighter note, must be a bugger for French beekeepers).

[KKOB]

We've seen ladies wearing full niqabs in Fethiye in the past and, on the whole they seemed to be ignored by tourists, but a number of Turks showed their disdain for them.

We also saw a group of fully covered ladies swimming off of Belcekiz beach.

[JohnF]

After many visits to Fethiye and driving/motorcycling throughout the south west region, I have never seen anyone wearing the full niqab.

I have.

I doubt Turkey can go this far but if Fethiye/Calis becomes this way it's goodbye to my consideration of a holiday home there.

Maybe consider a holiday home elsewhere, maybe somewhere that isn't a muslim country...

but a number of Turks showed their disdain for them.

Bet they wouldn't now, openly that is.

JF

[Scunner]

When I said my "bigoted" ( according to Scunner) piece about my discomfort seeing replica football shirts worn in restaurants it was just my personal tastes. At a football match, fine. Not in a restaurant.

Now, now. If you are going to accredit something to me (AKA still bleat on about it weeks later) at least make it factually correct. You did not say your discomfort came from "seeing replica football shirts worn in restaurants". It was in a topic about Brits Abroad and you added as an example, people wearing football shirts on their well earned holiday abroad - something you feel gives you the right to sneer down your nose at all of those who do. I'd call that bigoted but I'd moved on to be honest. 

....and men who wear football shirts as casual wear (even worse if accompanied by the young son in similar shirt with the family name on the back).

[KKOB]

On a recent (business - certainly not pleasure) visit to what is now a strongly Muslim - populated area of London, I saw two "tribes" (not sure of the collective noun) of ladies in full regalia (all had posh shoes though). Eyes only and all in black

Now, at the risk of being labelled bigot, racist or whatever it just seemed somehow "wrong" for an area in which I had formerly lived...........

My London visit made me somewhat more uncomfortable in my surroundings.

So, have they got to check with you that it's OK to live in a particular part of London, or the rest of the UK for that matter ?

[Scunner]

 I saw two "tribes" (not sure of the collective noun) of ladies in full regalia

Maybe you weren't sure, but I bet you could have thought of something better than "tribes".

"Groups" perhaps. That must have crossed your mind, but you went for "tribes".

I don't think you are a bigot now. I think you are a bigoted racist.

[Stuart T]

John F

Turkey has the highest percentage of Muslims per capita in the world (some 99.8%) - more than Saudi Arabia, Yemen etc.

That has never been a problem for me.

The relaxed views regarding dress, behaviour etc. have, since Kemal Ataturk, allowed a somewhat "live and let live" approach to life in many areas - particularly those strongly populated by tourists.

Perhaps the rest of Turkey is different.

I've still not seen the full niqab even though I've visited some pretty distant villages and towns.

Almost exclusively the dress is headscarves and loose clothing.

Maybe parts of Syria or other IS (or similarly) controlled areas have these strict dress controls in place now.

Perhaps Turkey today is not as "good" as it used to be (another thread covers this) but given the reliance on tourist money can these controls extend to the areas we mainly frequent?

It's not just the clothing - it's the message that compliance brings.

[Stuart T]

Scunner - I am neither a bigot nor a racist -



noun: tribe; plural noun: tribes


a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader,

How is this different from what I stated?

Nothing racist or bigoted there.

[Scunner]

Had they been two groups of white, British women, I doubt you would have chosen "tribes".

Often the truth shows itself in the tiny details. As we see here.

[Stuart T]

Reductio ad absurdum, Scunner.

Any viewpoint/argument can be broken down into minute component parts so that any element can be made to look ridiculous.

My overall view remains as stated.

I accept that when in Rome etc. and the attraction of the SW area is what's kept me coming back year after year.

I am concerned that stronger, (commonly, though wrongly labelled) "fundamentalist" views are extended to the places I have felt so warmly towards will change to the extent that I will feel uncomfortable being there.

I don't want to visit a mirror image of Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Syria for my holiday.